Josh D'Amaro comments on rising prices and "additional" or removed services: "An inevitable result of progress"

[el_super]

So they kill annual passes and block out main gates.

That is NOT actively attempting to drive away attendance…

Yes it is.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes it is.

No it isn’t…it’s trying to decrease the usage on them in Anaheim…while increasing the prices to “recoup” the Discount.

So I guess I’ll meet you halfway there…

But in Florida…they’ve locked them down/out because they are trying “retrain” their largest loyal/highest earning block to accept daily charges.

That isn’t to keep them away…it’s just to retrain them.

That isn’t what you think it is.

 

[el_super]

That isn’t what you think it is.

The end result is exactly the same... less people in the park = less attendance.

What's happening at the parks in reducing attendance is happening across the board.... better experiences = higher prices. You're just seeing more change at the lower end to start. The people who pay the least are having their access dramatically changed/adjusted.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The end result is exactly the same... less people in the park = less attendance.

What's happening at the parks in reducing attendance is happening across the board.... better experiences = higher prices. You're just seeing more change at the lower end to start. The people who pay the least are having their access dramatically changed/adjusted.

With Orlando…the DVC Mecca…which is what I was referring to on the quote above…they are in NO WAY trying to reduce DVC attendance frequency.

Not for a second. They are retraining people to pay maximum daily fees. And so far it’s worked mostly.

They used the plague as a perfect cover story. This isn’t hard to see through.

Local APs have always been considered reserve/disposal anyway. They have no problem casting them out and then reversing when needed.

Do you need me to walk you through the steps here?

 

[LSLS]

It is going to take a long time to change how the audience experiences the parks. Disney isn't going to just change overnight. They could, but they would spurn too much of their audience, and it seems they still want to keep a large portion of them engaged.

And the weird pricing schemes seem to be doing just that for the time being. Making the parks just as accessible, while still providing a better experience for those willing to pay more.

They just need to keep at it, and actually follow through. If they do the parks will be a different place to visit entirely in 10 to 20 years.

But it's really not. Wait times are not down. Average wait time this year for Pirates is the longest it has been in 8 years. 7 dwarfs compares to 5 years ago. Safari is the 2nd highest it has been in 8 years. If price is keeping attendance down like you say, then they are actively doing things to make wait times longer, which means the problem remains.

 

[Andrew C]

But it's really not. Wait times are not down. Average wait time this year for Pirates is the longest it has been in 8 years. 7 dwarfs compares to 5 years ago. Safari is the 2nd highest it has been in 8 years. If price is keeping attendance down like you say, then they are actively doing things to make wait times longer, which means the problem remains.

Capacity and genie+..

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Capacity and genie+..

Hasn’t changed since Bob 1 took the throne.

Most forum dwellers have been warned for over a decade of the forecast…now the storm is here. Just simple numbers

 

[LSLS]

Capacity and genie+..

Ride capacity? I mean, we had fast pass before genie, so I can't imagine that's much of a change.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I assume this is sarcastic, but in case it isn't -- Board members of pubic companies are named in every annual report. They are elected by shareholders at periodic intervals. There is no shadowy namelessness here. But to make it even easier than looking in the annual report, you could just go to the corporate Disney web page, and click to "Leadership" -- https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/about/#leadership. Board members all identified on the page.

Very good. Correct. Now let's see the Ire of and for the issues of concern shared / blamed on all the "Leadership" not just the selected very few named talking heads.

 

[Andrew C]

Ride capacity? I mean, we had fast pass before genie, so I can't imagine that's much of a change.

To me, it seems the genie+ lines are making the standby lines even longer than under the older fast pass systems. And Genie+ lines are longer than FP+ lines. I have no proof this is accurate...just anecdotal evidence.

 

[erasure fan1]

Moving to industry standards is NOT nickel and diming.

I would argue that the industry standard as a whole is a nickel and diming revenue stream. Like others have said, it was born from hotels in areas where parking was limited and an issue. It was then adopted by businesses to nickel and dime their customers and to appear to have better rates. I am not going to try and find a number, but I'm guessing the number of hotels/resorts that need to charge it are far less than the ones like Disney who are just doing it because it's extra cash.

 

[el_super]

But it's really not. Wait times are not down. Average wait time this year for Pirates is the longest it has been in 8 years. 7 dwarfs compares to 5 years ago. Safari is the 2nd highest it has been in 8 years. If price is keeping attendance down like you say, then they are actively doing things to make wait times longer, which means the problem remains.

Is it really disputed that attendance is down? Or at least not yet at 2019 levels?

If attendance is down (which I think is true) and wait times are up, then something else is going on with individual attraction demand.

Wait times don't discount the idea that attendance is down though.

 

[LSLS]

To me, it seems the genie+ lines are making the standby lines even longer than under the older fast pass systems. And Genie+ lines are longer than FP+ lines. I have no proof this is accurate...just anecdotal evidence.

Interesting, cause I've seen a lot of complaints that people got more rides with fast pass as well (or I guess I should say more rides that are worth it). But, I think it still comes back to the idea that raising prices is in no way being used to improve guest experience. You won't notice if there are 5,000 less people (assuming there are less people, which I'm not convinced of) if the wait times for the rides are longer and only half the lines at the quick service are open.

 

[Disstevefan1]

With Orlando…the DVC Mecca…which is what I was referring to on the quote above…they are in NO WAY trying to reduce DVC attendance frequency.

Not for a second. They are retraining people to pay maximum daily fees. And so far it’s worked mostly.

They used the plague as a perfect cover story. This isn’t hard to see through.

Local APs have always been considered reserve/disposal anyway. They have no problem casting them out and then reversing when needed.

Do you need me to walk you through the steps here?

It’s the ugly truth.
I am not a DVC member but they should throw the DVC folks a perk since they have so much invested.

 

[el_super]

With Orlando…the DVC Mecca…which is what I was referring to on the quote above…they are in NO WAY trying to reduce DVC attendance frequency.

But attendance is still down. Whether you want to admit it or not, that's entirely Disney's doing.

 

[UNCgolf]

Is it really disputed that attendance is down? Or at least not yet at 2019 levels?

If attendance is down (which I think is true) and wait times are up, then something else is going on with individual attraction demand.

Wait times don't discount the idea that attendance is down though.

I think the implication is that even if they actually do want to reduce attendance (and I have a hard time believing this), it won't necessarily result in a better experience. They may just reduce staffing so that the experience (wait times, etc.) is essentially the same. I suppose the walkways would not be as crowded and there would be more places to sit, but that could potentially be the extent of improvement.

Note that I'm not personally claiming this is what's going to happen.

 

[Andrew C]

Interesting, cause I've seen a lot of complaints that people got more rides with fast pass as well (or I guess I should say more rides that are worth it). But, I think it still comes back to the idea that raising prices is in no way being used to improve guest experience. You won't notice if there are 5,000 less people (assuming there are less people, which I'm not convinced of) if the wait times for the rides are longer and only half the lines at the quick service are open.

Well...theoretically if you increase prices and that lessens demand, you would have less crowded parks. And that in turn could improve guest experience (It wasn't that long ago that Iger said they are okay sacrificing a bit of attendance).

I just think it hasn't worked out that way due to Genie+, the overall product being offered, and the fact that crowding is still a significant issue due to current capacity.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s the ugly truth.
I am not a DVC member but they should throw the DVC folks a perk since they have so much invested.

Behind the scenes…I have zero doubt that Slaphead and tight pants are bragging about doing just this…and of course relaying go to “institutional investors”

 

[el_super]

Interesting, cause I've seen a lot of complaints that people got more rides with fast pass as well (or I guess I should say more rides that are worth it). But, I think it still comes back to the idea that raising prices is in no way being used to improve guest experience. You won't notice if there are 5,000 less people (assuming there are less people, which I'm not convinced of) if the wait times for the rides are longer and only half the lines at the quick service are open.

By how much has the average wait times for Genie+ increased over Fastpass?

Making Genie+ a better product is always going to be tied to the number of users that have access to it, and that can be controlled via pricing, even if it's not always implemented that way.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I have a lot of respect for the DVC owners. Folks that walk the walk by plunking down the coin and signing on the dotted line for long term (very long term) binding commitments to the mouse. It is sad the mouse merely see's these loyal fans as monetary resources to be exploited.