James Cameron, Joe Rohde, Tom Staggs and Disney executives touring Animal Kingdom

[jt04]

I've never understood the need to find "This Generation's Walt" because, at the same time, almost every Disney fan goes on to say that Walt was 1 of a kind.

It seems that we constantly look for someone to be almost supernatural with the way that they "get it", and thus, we're always disappointed in one way or another. I think we need to start seeing Disney as it is now, a collaboration of creative people, who strive for a great guest experience, and follow the lead set by Walt.

I think it is a fan effort to keep the bar from being lowered and avoiding the temptation they seem to have had to take the easy way out.

When that happens we end up with stuff like Mickey's Birthdayland, Flying Carpet spinners in Adventureland, Dinorama, an unthemed theater between Asia and Dinoland featuring a stage show about a Pixar movie that takes place in the ocean (huh :shrug::veryconfu), a land with one attraction (CMM), DCA 1.0 and I could go on.

Obviously Iger recognized this self-defeating trend and he has greenlighted the fixing of DCA, greenlighted Carsland, the FLE, and Avatar and much much more. These new adds are much more in keeping with the companies traditional standards and will pay off in amazing ways IMO. Keep watching what happens when they make the effort to live up to the standards Walt Disney set. Then it will make sense to you.

 

[Mrs.Skellington]

http://www.tdrfan.com/tds/mysterious_island/20000_leagues_under_the_sea/index.htm

This version is very effective! The "water" is in the ride vehicles windows rather than submerging the animatronics. Amazing!

This looks so amazing. I think it would be really cool as an Aquatopia type ride at Pandora Land

 

[whylightbulb]

I think the fans attachment to Joe Rohde is largely due to his amazing passion for the parks, and the detail that his projects deliver. Have you ever heard him give a presentation? He absolutely gets it, and can talk for hours and hours on details and story. His presentation for DAKs 10th was a great example of this.

Regardless of how much he personally delivers on a project, he is one of the best at WDI right now for headlining a project like this. Nobody else has that personality to sell a concept to guests or management. With him behind AVATAR the message will get out, and he'll create that hype that it will need.

I personally like the way he operates. I respect the way he really believes in what he is doing.

From the outside we unfortunately don't get to meet all the others who work on his projects. I would like to be able to heap as much praise on them, given the chance to know about them.

Well said Steve. He is a good communicator and politician. If people want to praise him for that than I think that's fair. I just wish they wouldn't heap praise on him for being a creative genius. I've seen far too many supposed creative managers, in many companies, receive the accolades when they really had little to do with the success of the projects they worked on. In fact, in many cases, they impeded and hampered the progress by playing their political games.

Once again - no axe to grind with respect to Rhode personally - just trying to bring a little reality into the temple of Rhode worship.

 

[JEANYLASER]

thanks for the update!

 

[jt04]

Well said Steve. He is a good communicator and politician. If people want to praise him for that than I think that's fair. I just wish they wouldn't heap praise on him for being a creative genius. I've seen far too many supposed creative managers, in many companies, receive the accolades when they really had little to do with the success of the projects they worked on. In fact, in many cases, they impeded and hampered the progress by playing their political games.

Once again - no axe to grind with respect to Rhode personally - just trying to bring a little reality into the temple of Rhode worship.

I'm not sure if you have seen Eddie Sotto's response to this conversation in his thread or not but he seems to have a far less negative take on the matter. And he is also in a position to know. I know there is professional jealousy of what he has been able to be involved with also out there. Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

Here is something worth considering. I wonder if it is possible James Cameron had never really heard of Joe except for a TV appearence or two. I think that is a real possibility. It is also possible he signed on to this project without realizing they had such a similar world view about nature. And it is also possible he did not understand what DAK was really about until recently. If true this has to have made an amazing impression on him. Just some food for thought.

 

[njDizFan]

Whylightbulb, just wondering, what was the last project you worked on for WDI?

 

[whylightbulb]

I think it's honestly no different from an Ad Agency or what Walt use to do back in his day ... you surround yourself with the most talented people you can, it only makes you and your ideas look better in the end. Typically when you have a great Ad Campaign they interview the Creative Director of the Agency, and not the Creative Team of Writer and Art Director who came up with the Ad, the truth is, the CD's role was just to approve the concept and sell it to the client, (not to make light of that because that is difficult to do too) but thats just how it goes ... I would imagine it is no different at WDI. Eddie Soto would be a good one to ask on this.

Yes that is correct. The role of the creative lead is to pitch and approve and provide guidance. Eddie happens to be one of those guys that moved up the chain of command and also deserved it. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, he didn't care about the political side of things as much as some. He spoke his mind and sometimes that got him in trouble. He always wanted the best and he cared about the final project more than his personal career.

Regarding asking him about these matters, I don't know how honest he will be concerning Rhode since he is not on here in anonymity.

 

[whylightbulb]

Whylightbulb, just wondering, what was the last project you worked on for WDI?

I'm working on one right now

 

[Alektronic]

Just one other general point. The backstory, while, in my opinion, is poorly communicated, was not tacked on after the fact with Dinorama. The relationship between Chester and Hester's and The Dino Institute was in place from the park opening. Dino-rama is just a continuation of that story.

Dino-Rama was not originally planned but a cheap replacement for what was originally planned.

The original plan for Dinoland included Chester and Hesters but it had a roadside thrill roller coaster called the Excavator and was going around Dinoland over the Boneyard and the Dig Site and was supposed to be a roller coaster through an old archeological dig site not a cheap carnival area. Also on the Cretaceous Trail there was going to be interactive AA dinosaurs similar to the Triceratops Encounter at Universal. Another victim of budget cuts like Beastly Kingdom that showed up later at IOA.

The Dinosaur Jubilee tent was just a temporary placeholder until they put a coaster in there. Then that was the Paul Pressler era, and he wanted everything cheap as possible but still wanted ride capacity. That is why they got 2 cheap carny coasters side by side. Then adding cheap carnival games even made it worse. That is the same they did at the Paradise Pier area at DCA and you see how well that turned out.

 

[trr1]

I wonder if when they were touring if Mr Cameron suggested the location he
would like the avatarland to be?

 

[puntagordabob]

That is why they got 2 cheap carny coasters side by side. Then adding cheap carnival games even made it worse. That is the same they did at the Paradise Pier area at DCA and you see how well that turned out.

Most of the ambiance of the Toy Story area of Paradise Pier was way better than I thought it would be when I first saw it in Oct 2010, and to be honest I went to DCA expecting to hate all of it lol... though perhaps the carnival games could be a little less prominent..... the coaster and the mickey Wheel along the lagoon with all the lights as if it were truly along the ocean was really cool.

Of course I would never ride much of what was there except the wheel.

 

[MrMorrowTom]

More interesting news James Cameron was spotted cross town visiting the Wizard. Wondering if he is getting ideas or researching.

I think its more weird he is being escorted by Universal high ups. (guessing by photo) Wouldn't you think he be the enemy to them?

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/features_orlando/2011/10/picture-it-james-cameron-at-wizarding-world-of-harry-potter.html

 

[GLaDOS]

More interesting news James Cameron was spotted cross town visiting the Wizard. Wondering if he is getting ideas or researching.

I'm sure he wanted to see the best Orlando has to offer, so he toured the land and I'm sure the rest of the park. He's not a theme park guru, so I'm sure he's interested in seeing how things are progressing all over the spectrum.

I just hope he goes back to the Wizarding World once it gets bigger. I'm sure he'll be impressed.

I think its more weird he is being escorted by Universal high ups. (guessing by photo) Wouldn't you think he be the enemy to them?

No. They aren't "enemies" because the whole Disney/Universal hatred is a myth concocted by fanboys who have too much time on their hands and a desire to pit their company against someone in a bitter rivalry. Iger has been to WWoHP as well, and I'm sure Uni representatives showed him around as well. They want to show off their baby just as any other company would want to do.

Besides, JC has worked with Uni before. His T2:3D is next door in the Studios.

 

[MrMorrowTom]

No. They aren't "enemies" because the whole Disney/Universal hatred is a myth concocted by fanboys who have too much time on their hands and a desire to pit their company against someone in a bitter rivalry. Iger has been to WWoHP as well, and I'm sure Uni representatives showed him around as well. They want to show off their baby just as any other company would want to do.

Besides, JC has worked with Uni before. His T2:3D is next door in the Studios.

Yea i was being sarcastic, doesn't go as well when in text :brick: my bad haha.
But i forgot about the T2:3D, good spot.

 

[GLaDOS]

Yea i was being sarcastic, doesn't go as well when in text :brick: my bad haha.
But i forgot about the T2:3D, good spot.

My fault.:lol::wave:

I just see so much falsehoods thrown around about the Disney/Universal relationship here that I sometimes feel the need to throw a bit of reality into the discussion. I'm sure there is a bit of creative rivalry between WDI and UC, but neither resort is looking to put the other out of business, and the two feed off each other very well, IMO.

 

[Prototype82]

I think its more weird he is being escorted by Universal high ups. (guessing by photo) Wouldn't you think he be the enemy to them?

Sure there's a great deal of resort competition, but it's quite civil. Parks attract guests from all over. In a sense, they rely off of each other. I don't think it's weird at all. He's a renowned director. It only makes sense that they'd welcome him into the park in a way that prevents fans/guests/mobs from gathering around him. (My bad. Kind of missed your sarcasm before.)

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Exactly right.



Conspiracy? :shrug::lol:

Here is the 'money quote' from Cameron....

“Getting the chance to roll up my sleeves and explore Disney’s Animal Kingdom from the inside out was a phenomenal experience,” said James Cameron. “As I walked through the park, I kept imagining Pandora coming to life all around me and found my mind racing with all the possibilities of what we will be able to create in the years ahead. Disney’s Animal Kingdom is truly a remarkable place and I can’t think of a better home for our first AVATAR experience.”


Now I am certain he does not mean he wants to take over the park. But they are obviously thinking big. I am not the only one speculating some stuff could be reimagined, relocated etc to make this a reality. It seems they are squarely in the "Blue Sky" stage where everything gets considered and there are no bad ideas.

And it is not my fault they choose Avatar over 20K for DAK. So don't get mad at me. :wave:

Nothing in that quote is "possible proof" that they will reconfigure the park in some way, or move things, or remove things. At all. I haven't heard anyone other than you suggest this, with the exception of possibly moving FotLK because they will use the CMM area.

The quote you just presented is nothing more than a standard PR statement of praise. "This place is GREAT! I can't WAIT for my stuff to come here!" I mean seriously. What did you EXPECT him to say? "This place is really horrible. They better be thanking me, because Avatar is the only thing that will turn it around!!"??

And I appreciate the homage to my screen name. But truthfully I wasn't all that impressed with 20k at TDS. Promethius and JTtCotE (to a lesser degree) were unbelievable. I really sort of like the Nemo subs at DL, but I'm well resigned to the fact that the chance of something 20k themed coming to the parks anymore is virtually non-existant... Sort of like Hyperion Wharf.

(See what I did there?) :lol:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Honestly I believe a part of the illusion regarding his "creative genius" is how he presents himself. I've seen this over and over again with others as well: if you act "really out there" and dress different and talk using a lot of creative jargon people will believe you are creative - even if there isn't a creative bone in your body.

Me personally - I don't think his projects turn out all that great - the exception being Adventurers Club. Anyone can turn out a half decent project if given over a hundred-million dollars. In my opinion though Everest is a major disappointment in so many areas. Sure the queue is nice...ummmm the ride is smooth and mildly exhilarating...I think that's about it and I'm getting off track.

Many times a career at WDI, and any other place in the corporate world for that matter, is decided by the roll of the dice. As a low-level designer what project will you be assigned to that you can add to your resume. Rhode landed some nice ones. Other more talented designers I know ended up with things like ________ Tracy, Roger Rabbit Baby Buggy and so on - they never had the chance to move up the corporate ladder because, despite how wonderful some of these projects could have been, their rungs were cut before they could ever climb up.

I know this comes off as though I have a bone to pick with Joe but I really don't. He's a decent communicator and knows how to put on the song and dance to pitch concepts that others come up with. He's not alone. There are some "celebrity designers" I do respect and admire for their natural talents: Baxter and Soto come to mind. When Tony talks there is a lot of substance in his words it's not just jargon. His ideas are his and they are solid. Same with Eddie.

Let me point out once again that Joe said specifically how DisneySea is lacking in quality. Really? It's one thing to be a guest and have an opinion but I have to seriously question the judgement of a theme park designer that makes a statement like that.

I've said it many times, but I love when you post. :wave:

 

[jakeman]

Dino-Rama was not originally planned but a cheap replacement for what was originally planned.

The original plan for Dinoland included Chester and Hesters but it had a roadside thrill roller coaster called the Excavator and was going around Dinoland over the Boneyard and the Dig Site and was supposed to be a roller coaster through an old archeological dig site not a cheap carnival area. Also on the Cretaceous Trail there was going to be interactive AA dinosaurs similar to the Triceratops Encounter at Universal. Another victim of budget cuts like Beastly Kingdom that showed up later at IOA.

The Dinosaur Jubilee tent was just a temporary placeholder until they put a coaster in there. Then that was the Paul Pressler era, and he wanted everything cheap as possible but still wanted ride capacity. That is why they got 2 cheap carny coasters side by side. Then adding cheap carnival games even made it worse. That is the same they did at the Paradise Pier area at DCA and you see how well that turned out.

I understand all that.

My point is that many people seem to think that Chester and Hester's was tacked on after the fact to explain Dinorama and it was not.

Like it or not, Dinorama is a continuation of the Chester and Hester story that was in the park from day one.

 

[jt04]

Nothing in that quote is "possible proof" that they will reconfigure the park in some way, or move things, or remove things. At all. I haven't heard anyone other than you suggest this, with the exception of possibly moving FotLK because they will use the CMM area.

The quote you just presented is nothing more than a standard PR statement of praise. "This place is GREAT! I can't WAIT for my stuff to come here!" I mean seriously. What did you EXPECT him to say? "This place is really horrible. They better be thanking me, because Avatar is the only thing that will turn it around!!"??

And I appreciate the homage to my screen name. But truthfully I wasn't all that impressed with 20k at TDS. Promethius and JTtCotE (to a lesser degree) were unbelievable. I really sort of like the Nemo subs at DL, but I'm well resigned to the fact that the chance of something 20k themed coming to the parks anymore is virtually non-existant... Sort of like Hyperion Wharf.

(See what I did there?) :lol:

Uh-oh you are on to me. :brick:

I am convinced the concept for a steampunk 1800's 20K land will some day be built at the MK. It is just to perfect for them not to build that concept. I forgot the name of it. :lol: But it would be perfect with the steam train incorporated and with BTMRR as a possible backdrop. Want.