I've come to the conclusion we'll have to change our tactics at Disney from now on.

[Bairstow]

Unfortunately, the longer lines won't just be for attractions with "overlapping" Fastpass systems. Once FP+ is fully rolled out, there will be FP+ lines slowing down the queues at every single attraction that didn't offer traditional paper FP but which will have FP+. (E.g., Carousel of Progress, iasw, POTC). This means that even the old reliable "walk-ons" aren't going to be walk-ons anymore. FP+ lowers your wait for exactly 3 attractions per day -- the 3 for which you can use FP+ -- and increases your wait for everything else.

We'll see.
I wonder if when paper fastpass is deactivated if the standby queue for things like Space Mountain and Thunder, rides with height limits, will decrease.
One of the quirks about fastpassplus is that you can't get more than one fastpassplus per attraction per day, so coasters and things that people often want to ride multiple times during the day might actually see a decrease in total fastpass reservation once the paper system is gone. We'll see.

 

[Rob562]

Unfortunately, the longer lines won't just be for attractions with "overlapping" Fastpass systems. Once FP+ is fully rolled out, there will be FP+ lines slowing down the queues at every single attraction that didn't offer traditional paper FP but which will have FP+. (E.g., Carousel of Progress, iasw, POTC). This means that even the old reliable "walk-ons" aren't going to be walk-ons anymore. FP+ lowers your wait for exactly 3 attractions per day -- the 3 for which you can use FP+ -- and increases your wait for everything else.

It's this line of thinking that makes me think that some people aren't seeing the big picture. (And I'll admit it's a very complicated and multi-faceted picture to try and comprehend)

To get one correction out of the way, CoP does *not* have FP+. Everyone keeps snarkily saying it does or will, but it doesn't. The only time CoP has ever had FastPass was when some nearby attractions would spit out a "Bonus FastPass" to try and get crowds to notice these large-capacity attractions.

Now, on to my reasoning on why I don't think FP+ will be the horror story of mega-long lines that everyone else keeps making it out to be. (I start with the caveat that these views are for *after* the full rollout and everyone can use FP+ and regular FP is gone, not the weird hybrid dual system that's in place now).


First, imagine a park (we'll say MK) with *no* FastPass system in place at all. This is pretty much how MK ran before FastPass in 1998. There were just queues for everything. People wanted to ride a ride, they waited in line. Walkways were relatively free and open because a large chunk of people were standing in a queue.

Now, imagine that same setup, but *everyone* walking into the front gate was given a single Front-of-the-Line pass. They can use it to jump the queue on *any* ride they wanted. Everyone gets just one, so there isn't a huge difference between only queues and queues-plus-one-pass. Most FOTL passes will be used to skip long lines like the Mountains. Some will be used for favorite attractions like Pirates.

Now, increase that to two FOTL passes when you walk in the gate, but you can't use them on the same attraction.

Now, increase that to three FOTL passes. Many will still be used at the Mountains and other E-ticket attractions, but some will get used at lesser attractions with large capacity like the Mansion. Will those used at high-capacity attractions like Mansion get in the way of a huge number of Standby guests? Probably not.

That's what FP+ will be, except the three FOTL passes will be spread throughout the day rather than allowing people to redeem them whenever they want, thereby keeping possible overload situations from happening.

This is why I don't think the FP+ system will be the catastrophe that some make it out to be. It'll also bring back less-congested walkways because there won't be as many "virtual" line-holders and people will be in queues more than walking around as they are now.

-Rob

 

[Killnme]

?? Me and the DW are AP's and have Magicbands. So yeah you get them. We had a late Sept. trip and stayed at CBR.

My question is when will APs get the magicbands without staying on property?

 

[Glasgow]

I hope you are right Rob. Regardless, we're all part of the problem .. We're patrons! If profits keep going up, do you think they're going to lower prices? No way! They're going to raise prices until supply equals demand. Cost is a great crowd control tool.

I hope FP+ is a legitimately functional and efficient system and not just a way to appease people that go multiple times a year.

 

[Weather_Lady]

We'll see.
I wonder if when paper fastpass is deactivated if the standby queue for things like Space Mountain and Thunder, rides with height limits, will decrease.
One of the quirks about fastpassplus is that you can't get more than one fastpassplus per attraction per day, so coasters and things that people often want to ride multiple times during the day might actually see a decrease in total fastpass reservation once the paper system is gone. We'll see.

I understand your reasoning completely -- I would hope that that would happen. However, I suspect the same number of Fastpasses is still going to be issued for the "sell-out" headliners that are issued now: it's just that they'll be spread between more people, since no one can get more than one for the same attraction in a day.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

My question is when will APs get the magicbands without staying on property?

No one seems to know. But Disney just finally got all resorts testing as of yesterday, so I think AP holders will have to wait until Disney is assured that resort guest as having minimal issues.

 

[G8rchamps]

Couldn't an AP make a reservation at a test resort for like 45 days out, configure magic bands, then cancel the reservation? (whats the timeframe for a full refund?)

Really hope turning off legagy FP will help, last weekend was crazy.

 

[mergatroid]

?? Me and the DW are AP's and have Magicbands. So yeah you get them. We had a late Sept. trip and stayed at CBR.

I believe you got them due to staying at the CBR as opposeed to being AP holders. Due to having a vacation home in Orlando we're not paying to stay in Disney just to qualify for magicbands. We enquired about them and were told that being AP holders right now does not qualify us for them and there's no difintive date for when we will yet unfortunately

 

[mweier]

I understand your reasoning completely -- I would hope that that would happen. However, I suspect the same number of Fastpasses is still going to be issued for the "sell-out" headliners that are issued now: it's just that they'll be spread between more people, since no one can get more than one for the same attraction in a day.

Good point, though we'll probably have to just wait to find out if that's true or if it does go down once you can't (for example) get yourself 3 FP's for Spacemountain over a 6 hr period, then park hop to Epcot and grab one for a couple attractions there.

Once FP+ completely replaces FP and all can use it, I see this as effectively reducing the total number of FP's each visitor used to be able to get, limiting it to exactly 3. In other words, if you used to be able to get a FP while in the park, you should still be able to get an FP+ for the same transaction (but it may require getting it early ala ADRs). With the old FP system (especially since you could FP in multiple parks and get FP's from some of the "disconnected" FP dispensers that let you break the "1 every 2 hrs max" rule for FP, you used to be able to get 4+ FPs.
Thus, in the ideal end game, where all visitors (including AP & off-property) are 100% on FP+, there is less jumping to the head of the line going on total, which should reduce wait times for standby.

As for whether FP+ causes people to reserve themselves a spot where they couldn't in the past (e.g. , it's true that these could be slightly longer standby lines since no one (other than some disabled guests) were allowed FOTL on them before. However, this still boils down to what people use their FP+ on. More thinkery on the topic to throw into the mix here: http://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/fastpass#FPP

 

[mergatroid]

Lot's of interesting answers from many people so far which is much appreciated on what I know to be a complicated issue with all the variables currently involved and the 'trial' taking place. What I find a bit strange (or annoying to me) is they've added fastpass+ lines to Journey and Maelstrom for example (and others) which in my mind didn't really need them. This seems to have just increased stand by queues on attractions that didn't seem to have a huge demand originally. That is great for times when the parks are busy for those who love those attractions but also stops them being easy to access for many people who rode them maybe more as a bit of 'filler' inbetween the rides they love the most. It just feels like it's now harder to ride as much in a day as it used to be.

 

[lebeau]

I'm just wondering if anyone else has been effected like this and if so, have you overcome it? Are there any good tips out there or are the 'good old days' gone forever with the advent of the new technology?

I don't intend to go back for a few years. Hopefully they will have sorted this mess out by then.

 

[mweier]

PS there's

Lot's of interesting answers from many people so far which is much appreciated on what I know to be a complicated issue with all the variables currently involved and the 'trial' taking place. What I find a bit strange (or annoying to me) is they've added fastpass+ lines to Journey and Maelstrom for example (and others) which in my mind didn't really need them. This seems to have just increased stand by queues on attractions that didn't seem to have a huge demand originally. That is great for times when the parks are busy for those who love those attractions but also stops them being easy to access for many people who rode them maybe more as a bit of 'filler' inbetween the rides they love the most. It just feels like it's now harder to ride as much in a day as it used to be.

true dat. But again, who would waste 1 of their 3 fast passes on a JIY or Maelstrom? Probably not too many people, unless they're wholly oblivious to which rides get the longest lines. I suspect this won't be the biggest cause of frustration.On the other hand, if they ever started offering deluxe resort guests 4 or even 5 FP+ per day, this could start to open up more of those scenarios.

 

[ParentsOf4]

But again, who would waste 1 of their 3 fast passes on a JIY or Maelstrom? Probably not too many people, unless they're wholly oblivious to which rides get the longest lines. I suspect this won't be the biggest cause of frustration.On the other hand, if they ever started offering deluxe resort guests 4 or even 5 FP+ per day, this could start to open up more of those scenarios.

WDW has a serious attraction capacity problem at 3 of its 4 theme parks. There simply isn't enough "good" attractions at Epcot, DHS, and DAK. Disney is adding FP+ to attractions that previously didn't have, nor need it, exactly because they are trying to create an artificial supply for the demand.

Guests will use FP+ for JIY and Maelstrom because those are going to be the only attractions available. As a result, the rest of us are all going to wait in longer Standby lines so that corporate Disney can placate those unfortunate enough not to get FP+ selections for the good attractions.

It really stinks.

With FP, if I arrive late then I tend to skip Soarin' and Test Track, instead riding several other Epcot attractions with short waits. I feel like I was reasonably entertained without having to wait too long.

Now, with FP+, even those attractions will have longer waits. So, if I decide to change plans last-minute and visit Epcot, I'm totally out-of-luck.

FP+ kills spontaneity, except the spontaneity I might feel to visit a theme park without FP+.

 

[wdisney9000]

WDW has a serious attraction capacity problem at 3 of its 4 theme parks. There simply isn't enough "good" attractions at Epcot, DHS, and DAK.

Increasing attraction capacity is the simple solution and most obvious to enhance guest experience and decrease wait times. Its so simple. Its obviously not a financial reason they wont do it. I suppose you can argue that Avatar Land and Star Wars land are coming. If they are it seems more logical to add them first then move onto MM+.

 

[mergatroid]

WDW has a serious attraction capacity problem at 3 of its 4 theme parks. There simply isn't enough "good" attractions at Epcot, DHS, and DAK. Disney is adding FP+ to attractions that previously didn't have, nor need it, exactly because they are trying to create an artificial supply for the demand.

Guests will use FP+ for JIY and Maelstrom because those are going to be the only attractions available. As a result, the rest of us are all going to wait in longer Standby lines so that corporate Disney can placate those unfortunate enough not to get FP+ selections for the good attractions.

It really stinks.

With FP, if I arrive late then I tend to skip Soarin' and Test Track, instead riding several other Epcot attractions with short waits. I feel like I was reasonably entertained without having to wait too long.

Now, with FP+, even those attractions will have longer waits. So, if I decide to change plans last-minute and visit Epcot, I'm totally out-of-luck.

FP+ kills spontaneity, except the spontaneity I might feel to visit a theme park without FP+.

That's exactly how we've felt at times this trip. Certain attractions you enjoy but don't really think are worth queuing for beyond a certain length of time, now many of these seem to have much longer queues and you just think "Is it really worth it, it seemed so much better before FP+".

I realise I may sound spolit saying all this and people can justifiably say "Ah diddums, so you have to queue a bit more now well that's just tough". If this system benefits more guests than it hinders then ultimately I will have to admit that it's the fairest thing to do even if it doesn't work as well for me. Right now it just seems it makes things harder for more people than it benefits, but I could be completely wrong with that belief and it's very early days yet. Maybe over time it will be a positive thing for many and if it is then that's a good thing regardless of how it seems right now, fingers crossed anyway.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Delorean back to 1997 and eliminate completely all this FP and FP+ stuff. Wanna ride? Wait in line like the rest of us.

 

[Britt]

Thats right...slummin it with the rest of us non AP holders

No, but Im sure that it'll come out for AP holders soon. Thats crazy that you guys weren't the first to get it. You'd think they'd roll it out with you guys first...I mean...you already paid $1500, you're not goin anywhere.

 

[jensenrick]

No, but Im sure that it'll come out for AP holders soon. Thats crazy that you guys weren't the first to get it. You'd think they'd roll it out with you guys first...I mean...you already paid $1500, you're not goin anywhere.

Precisely the problem- they figure AP holders are going no where.
(although price wise, I've never paid more than $340 for a pass in my life, been getting the FL rez Seasonal for years)

 

[jensenrick]

we queued for Journey for nearly 30 mins at about 11am!

30 minutes for Journey? Journey into Imagination?? That Journey? Mind boggling.

 

[jensenrick]

My question is when will APs get the magicbands without staying on property?

EXACTLY MY QUESTION! And if the answer turns out to be "never", well . . . that may also be how many times I go to WDW.