Is This Rumor Credible (This Time)?

[jjharvpro]

I'm not completely opposed to this. Although many, if not most, think this is going too far, this DVC could really keep with the Fort Wilderness theme of seclusion, peace and quiet, relaxation, and just being out in the "wilderness" with your family! Not jumping the gun and hating this until we learn more details.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Oh, believe me...I fully expect there to be a whole mess of new faces running the show in less than 7-9 years.
But until it actually happens, I'm going to continue to operate under the assumption that the status quo will be in effect indefinitely.

Blind hope gets me nowhere.
To quote the wise Captain Reynolds, "It's a long wait for a train don't come."

Interesting quote.

I'm happy that you think that about new people running the show. I figure that you have more insight than practically eveyone else on here.

We'll continue to visit twice each year, see practically nothing wrong as we always do and have wonderful vacations. I do think, however, that the "whole mess of new faces" will improve things to the point where our family sees perfection, and you are content again. :wave:

 

[dreamscometrue]

Merf's website....he still manages to get things posted here! :lol:

Really? Thanks. I had no clue. :shrug:

 

[dreamscometrue]

Plans only show it to be about 5 stories high. That's about the same hight as Pop or the All Stars.

Yeah, I know.

I just kinda like the thought of being up on the 37th floor waving at some of the people who annoy me on here. (Not you.) :wave:

 

[dreamscometrue]

I believe that saying 'Everything may suck now, but you just wait ... you wait ANOTHER FRIGGIN DECADE and Disney will bring the MAGIC back' ... is an absurd way to view Disney and life.

It is absurb, but I was just thinking of you. :wave:

We always have wonderful vacations, and although I find a few minor things each trip, the good outweigh them 100 to 1 for us. So, we're great, and will enjoy the parks that little bit more when the new people Lee says are coming in less then 7-9 years arrive and get things even closer to perfect.

I was just curious about your thoughts on this: Do you think faces will in fact change at TDO and Burbank, and if so, will these changes in personnel bring WDW to a standard that makes you happy?

(No matter what your response to the above question, enjoy the next several years travelling around the world. )

Btw, you might you good on a monorail.Just sayin' :wave:

 

[Kamikaze]

It is absurb, but I was just thinking of you. :wave:

We always have wonderful vacations, and although I find a few minor things each trip, the good outweigh them 100 to 1 for us. So, we're great, and will enjoy the parks that little bit more when the new people Lee says are coming in less then 7-9 years arrive and get things even closer to perfect.

I was just curious about your thoughts on this: Do you think faces will in fact change at TDO and Burbank, and if so, will these changes in personnel bring WDW to a standard that makes you happy?

(No matter what your response to the above question, enjoy the next several years travelling around the world. )

Btw, you might you good on a monorail.Just sayin' :wave:

Just curious - when was your first WDW trip?

 

[dreamscometrue]

sorry...double post, so deleted

 

[dreamscometrue]

Just curious - when was your first WDW trip?

Extended family went when I was relatively young in '76. Don't remember much, except one family member complaining about heat, crowds, ride break downs, and how he'd never go back (and still hasn't, btw) . I went twice in the 90s, then 2003, 2005 and 8 times in past 4 and a half years.

 

[Pentacat]

My issue with DVC is that the truckload of cash they make from the timeshares is just plowed back into more timeshares. If they were using a larger percentage of that money as capital investment for the WDW Parks then how would that be a bad thing?

I don't understand how someone else's "bad" decision on investing in DVC is a bad thing for me. Someone else is footing the bill for me to stay in a resort(albeit at ridiculous nightly rates) that they otherwise wouldn't have been built without the DVC buy-ins. I don't believe that the DVC resorts have somehow diluted the Disney Resorts quality, that's just been done with years of penny pitching and outsourcing. The scary thing is, can you imagine how much worse off WDW would be WITHOUT the DVC money?

As far as top management is concerned the Parks will always get the brown end of the stick. How many of the current executives in Anaheim came into their positions via the Parks versus the Studios/TV/Outside? My sense is that Eiger represents the permanent direction of the company. Media is king because the ROI is much better with a fraction of the capital costs compared to a multi-billion dollar theme park.

 

[njDizFan]

I really don't see DVC dying down in any perceivable future unless they run out/sell all of Uncle Walt's land. The money coming in every year on their balance sheets is just too easy and I'm sure addictive.

I have no idea how much a single DVC room brings in but it must be staggering. On average maybe 20K per room per week. Multiply that out for a year and it's over a million. Obviously this is a very abstract number not quantifying how people use their points and the initial construction and upkeep and labor... but a million per room to buy in

How could a money hungry exec turn down those numbers. When the DVC sales stop coming in, that is a big black hole that needs to be filled. So I guess they have to keep building so they don't lose out on that revenue stream.

 

[flynnibus]

My issue with DVC is that the truckload of cash they make from the timeshares is just plowed back into more timeshares. If they were using a larger percentage of that money as capital investment for the WDW Parks then how would that be a bad thing?

And you draw this conclusion from what information? DVC is reported as part of P&R.. and their P&L and there inflows and outflows are not reported externally.

 

[Murphketeer]

I see many people suggesting the DVC construction has lead to less assets to new rides and attractions in the parks. I am sure there is some impact. But I also believe there is a much bigger loss of Imagineering time to all the overseas parks and the construction that has gone on there over the past years.

 

[DVCOwner]

My issue with DVC is that the truckload of cash they make from the timeshares is just plowed back into more timeshares. If they were using a larger percentage of that money as capital investment for the WDW Parks then how would that be a bad thing?

If all the money made on DVC went back into more DVC Disney would have to build three to four DVC resorts for every one they sold. The only reason Disney builds more DVC resorts is to increase the profit from this cash cow that Disney operates. As said before, it also increases people staying on the parks and increase tickets sale, food sales, gift shop sales, etc.

I own DVC and it is a good deal for me (but I am not to smart), but for Disney it is money in the bank. DVC increase the cash flow and Disney can spend that cash on anything it likes, new things in the parks, movies, hotels, new park in China, etc.

 

[Pentacat]

And you draw this conclusion from what information? DVC is reported as part of P&R.. and their P&L and there inflows and outflows are not reported externally.

You're right you'll never see those line item numbers so base it on the only things you can see....a bunch of DVC properties that have been built in the last 10 years. Aulani alone cost around $800 million to build (yes, again not an official number that you'll never see). That's double the money they are spending on FLE and it's a single stand alone resort.

It's the short sighted nature that is infuriating. It's easy to see that the addition of DVC properties and more hotel rooms directly result in an increase in revenue. But spending money on the Parks is less tangible, especially when your attendance rates are as steady as those of the WDW Parks.

 

[flynnibus]

You're right you'll never see those line item numbers so base it on the only things you can see....a bunch of DVC properties that have been built in the last 10 years. Aulani alone cost around $800 million to build (yes, again not an official number that you'll never see). That's double the money they are spending on FLE and it's a single stand alone resort.

So it's your assumption you spread as fact...

Maybe you overlook the possibility that the DVC bring in far more money then they cost to build.. and if that is so.. why is generating revenue a bad thing?

You act like they should just be taking that money and dumping into the parks.. ignoring that the money must come from somewhere to start with. With DVC, there is a investment making more money then it cost to build.. so that is GENERATING money to use elsewhere.. where if they took that same money and put it into the parks alone there wouldn't be as much money in round 2, etc.

DVC is generating money... including money that can be applied to the parks.

 

[LoehnWolf]

But I think thats part of the original arguement, that its not so equally being put back into the parks..for (i dont know the exact numbers) every say 1 dollar thats being put into the parks, 10 is being put into new DVC resorts. Being someone who sure as hell can't afford DVC timeshares, and I am sure I am not alone, new DVC resorts mean NOTHING to me except less money on the things I CAN enjoy.

 

[OANDJ_DVC]

DVC Envy

I sense much DVC envy here - not quite sure why.:shrug:

The Disney enterprise is an interdependant system with lots of parts all of which support each other. If the construction of DVC resorts increases the number of people on site then it inevitably will increase ticket purchases and park attendance. And if the demand on the parks goes up then so does revenue and then come the improvements.

Conversely, when the economy slumps as it has for the last 4 years, people don't vacation as much, revenues fall and things are made to last longer than they ordinarily would.

And if the DVC resorts make money on their own, all the better!

Disney will put their money where the demand is. Not only have they built DVC resort after DVC resort but they just doubled their cruise line capacity with two new gigantic ships. Is that a bad thing too? Hardly! The ships bring people to Disney (land and sea vacation packages) and they make Disney a fortune.

(Full disclosure - my name is Jon and I am a DVC member )

 

[Pentacat]

So it's your assumption you spread as fact...

It's my assumption and presented as such, your assumption is that I stated it as a fact. There are no "facts" to be presented unless you have access to financial numbers that the public does not.

At no point did I say or do I deny that DVC is a cash cow and OBVIOUSLY brings in more money than the associated cost. Hence the fact that they are building them as fast as they can.

You act like they should just be taking that money and dumping into the parks.. ignoring that the money must come from somewhere to start with. With DVC, there is a investment making more money then it cost to build.. so that is GENERATING money to use elsewhere.. where if they took that same money and put it into the parks alone there wouldn't be as much money in round 2, etc.

Right...so people are purchasing DVC memberships at the WDW based resorts so they can do what, go to the Prime Outlets on I-4? Look at the downturn in quality at the Parks during the years that DVC has existed. Overall maintenance, show quality, food and beverage quality are all down from where they were in the mid 90's prior to DVC's existence. So excuse me for questioning if the income from DVC is being used to mainly feed itself and not to actually improve the entire reason why DVC exists in the first place. If the Parks looked as good today as they did 15 years ago then I would totally agree with you that as much money as possible should go towards building more Resorts.

I'm not bashing DVC. I think that it is a good idea from a business perspective for Disney, at least in the short term. I just hate to see the ever increasing focus on it at the expense of the Parks themselves.

 

[xdan0920]

Staying away from the argument of if DVC is bad for the parks.

I would like to say though, I am a DVC owner, and I wish they were not building a FW DVC.

 

[Pentacat]

I sense much DVC envy here - not quite sure why.:shrug:

Not envy but MAYBE regret.

I had the chance to buy into OKW many years ago and I do regret it now considering the money that I've spent as a non DVC visitor over the years since. BUT I have the feeling that if I were a DVC member that my attitude would be even more adverse to the situation than it is now.

If I'd made that investment I would feel even more strongly that they need to focus on the core product...the entire reason for DVC's existence. Maybe if more DVC members felt that way AND told Disney as much then things could change. I think that a lot of DVC members get very defensive of any criticism of the program when they should be the ones leading the chorus of complaints.