Is "Future World" part of Obsoletecot?

[Expo_Seeker40]

Something I've been meaning to discuss, and I hope and pray this does not lead to thread bashing. :dazzle:

When I went to Epcot earlier this month, something smacked me in the face that hadn't before....it wasn't the wand over spaceship earth, the stars on spaceship earth or leave a legacy....:snore: ....it was Future World itself!

My question is to you folks here at WDWMAGIC......is Future World obsolete or part of obsoletecot?

Going back to the fundamentals of EPCOT Center and what is on the dedication plaque...even though change must happen...and people want a better blend of edutainment and entertainment *I mean this by old school EPCOT and new school Epcot*

It seems to me that Future World not only is no longer about the future....it's a joke in itself...and a slap in the face to the Imagineers who designed the foundation for Future World when they designed EPCOT Center.

No I don't want all out scientific rides,etc but can we not have future world attractions that entertain inform and inspire and give us hope not for today but for TOMORROW...after all EPCOT is the only world's fair many of us americans will ever see in our life. I can't just go see one oversea to see a world's fair nor am I old enough to have seen one in the USA......and the last one was in 1984! :lookaroun


My observations are as follows:

Spaceship Earth's ending needs bling and hope and optimism and some day I'm sure seimens will do that as with the developing post show.

Innoventions is usually coming up with new and exciting exhibits.

The seas seem to be a joke for future world and more like a Fantasyland extension rather than nemo and friends "edutaining" guests about the seas.

The land seems relevant with living with the land and circle of life, and soarin' celebrates the splendor of the land

I have no idea what Imagination means anymore with future world....the idea of using your imagination and discovering tomorrow seems obsolete here...

Test Track while fun is the auto zone of the 90s

Mission:Space is very Future World!!! :sohappy:

Wonders Of 1989 needs help or a new attraction(s)

but to me....I was struck by the Universe of Energy....the first time I saw UoE was in 1996 when Ellen's energy adventure was brand new....seeing it over the years and especially in 2007 really shows how the UoE could really have a grand and entertaining futuristic show once rehabed.

Just wondering what other people think about future world... :wave:

 

[marni1971]

In it`s current mess? Don`t ask!

 

[ToTBellHop]

um...well...I'll give Future World credit where credit is due. I still love the Fountain of Nations and Epcot has some of my favorite background music of any park...though I am frustrated that they have turned the volume down...it used to be loud and epic at the entrance plaza...now you have to strain to hear it if you aren't right under a speaker...either that or I'm going deaf but I'm pretty sure it's just much quieter now.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

True, not as futuristic as it used to be. But some attractions are not bad. And if you take the post-show at test track, they show a lot of the future of automaking if you stop long enough to look around. I think that FW could use some serious help, but I still enjoy my visits there as much as at any other land and park in the World.

 

[jcldtrek]

Ill agree that wonders of life and universe of energy need help. universe is outdated, wonders is missing in action for many years. They both need to be redone. imagination is another complex that needs a little help too. other than that i love the land and can't comment on seas yet since i didn't see all the things they did in it from its refurbishment. spaceship earth is cool the `way it is, just needs a little touch up here and there.

 

[SirNim]

"No I don't want all out scientific rides,etc but can we not have future world attractions that entertain inform and inspire and give us hope not for today but for TOMORROW..."

Quite simply, the last several overlays to FW pavilions have neglected the "inspire" element. Sure, Nemo & TT & M:S are highly entertaining, and each presents, at least in their "post-shows" scientific/engineering facts...but they lack that punch of inspiration which is so integral to the Epcot purpose. They don't provide a glimpse of better things to come. They don't challenge or stimulate guests to apply central concepts towards a defined goal...unlike Spaceship Earth, which, while needing general refurbishment and an improved ending, challenges us to envision a world of better connections and communications between cultures and peoples. Energy needs an overhaul, bad, and yet at least it touches upon renewable energy sources and leaves guests to use their "brain power" to solve future problems.

The problem is, half of FW still espouses these inspirational ideals, and the other half presents a completely contrary message. Essentially, with all the pavilion upgrades of the last decade, Future World is now sort of a half-@**ed remnant of its former self.

Disney can continue in this direction and eventually convert the entire FW, including SE, to the bland, "edutainment," character-infested theme, or it can look to the future and to Epcot's original purpose and "reclaim" the several recently-updated pavilions for a greater good, not to mention greater profits. As it is now, although I never pass up an opportunity to visit, Future World is a hodgepodge of dissonant themes and purposes.

 

[PintoColvig]

Um, wow, interesting question. I think Nim is right in that Future World divides into two different ways: some attractions primarily inspire while others primarily entertain. I fondly remember the inspiration of old-school Epcot Center and lament that it's mostly gone. That inspiration stuck with me long beyond my trip. I still enjoy the new stuff but realize that it's mostly an "at that moment" thrill that quickly fades. Honestly, a name change is probably warranted, such as the oft-proposed "Discovery World".

 

[ToTBellHop]

a name change would make the most sense, since the direction Epcot is going in is just that...the direction it is going in. Honestly, I enjoy the rides more nowadays--all the old omni-movers were cool but not exciting. Rides like Soarin' and Test Track are much more marketable (Mission: SPACE used to be marketable before all the bad press...). The idea these days is no longer to inspire, but to inform and excite, which probably connects with more guests. Lots of guests probably wouldn't connect with Horizons, but most people agree that Mission: SPACE, in idea, is very cool...it's just a bit too extreme for most guests. Space travel is an excellent topic, though. Future World nowadays is almost like what Tomorrowland at Disneyland started out as--"a world on the move." I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Epcot ≠ EPCOT Center

 

[pfeigelm]

I wonder if Future World was called something like Technology Showcase, obsolesence questions wouldnt be brought up so frequently. Nor would "What does Nemo have to do with the Future?"

EPCOT was modeled after a World's Fair. Specifically, the New York World's Fair 1964. In a Fair, countries, US states, and corporations build big gaudy pavillions; fill them with artwork, dark rides, movies, live shows, restaurants, etc, for the sole purpose of promoting themselves as friendly & familiar entities along with their goods and services. Even the pavillions in which Disney built rides and attractions (Ford, GE, Pepsi, Illinois) were huge advertisements for those products. A Fair is a theme park of hard selling disguised as entertainment. I'm not being snarkly. Thats what a WF is for.

EPCOT is a World's Fair. it is not Tomorrowland. Every pavillion, including World Showcase touts its goods and services during or after the ride/attraction. Canada, China, HP, GM, maybe Seimens someday.

You can warm up the flame machine and point it my way, but I really think that for an element of freshness, Disney need to agressively court large corporations to build WF style pavillions in EPCOT. Let them sell their product by wrapping it up in mind-blowing dark rides.

 

[joel_maxwell]

My observations are as follows:

Spaceship Earth's ending needs bling and hope and optimism and some day I'm sure seimens will do that as with the developing post show.

Innoventions is usually coming up with new and exciting exhibits.

The seas seem to be a joke for future world and more like a Fantasyland extension rather than nemo and friends "edutaining" guests about the seas.

The land seems relevant with living with the land and circle of life, and soarin' celebrates the splendor of the land

I have no idea what Imagination means anymore with future world....the idea of using your imagination and discovering tomorrow seems obsolete here...

Test Track while fun is the auto zone of the 90s

Mission:Space is very Future World!!! :sohappy:

Wonders Of 1989 needs help or a new attraction(s)

but to me....I was struck by the Universe of Energy....

ok, since we have been really discussing SSE on the other thread, why not back up and look at it as a whole.

SSE - yes, it needs some love. i think that in the next 1-2 years it will get what it deserves and im really excited about the post show. dont get me started on the wand and how it needs to sink into the depths of hell.

Innovations - i really think that the concept of the place needs to be reborn. i dont think you can get exhibits in there fast enough before they are old news. this is a lot of area that could be used for something better

LS - i was a little dissapointed with its current state. that might be since aquariums are popping up in all major cities and besides Nemo/Crush what does it have to make me say wow.

Land - i am quite pleased with the state of the land. i really enjoyed visiting it since the rehab of the LwtL and Soarin.

Imagination - all im going to say about the current state is that if the attraction and HISTA had the same fate as the wand.... it would be justice. it needs not a rehab or even a tweak. it needs a complete overhaul.

WoL - bulldoze it and bring something in that resembles something in the 21st century.

UoE - im at a lose here. really. i just dont know.

TT - your right but nothing is going to happen until the other get rehabbed and since they put so much time money into it.

M:S - great ride.... good queue.... wish they would have made it what it was suppost to be with the mission back to earth. oh well, still worth it.

back to the topic at hand with is Epcot future in futureworld. well, sort of. does the current state of Epcot and the concept we all know get over looked by your average guest. yes... so that is why im not sure it matters (not to us of course) it needs an identity. maybe they are steering into attractions that are the future instead of talking about the future and displaying it in the attraction.

not sure that makes sense. :lol:

 

[KimnAbby]

Epcot

Epcot Center has always been my favorite park in Walt Disney World. I've never been quite sure why, I just love it. Maybe it's the music. Maybe it's the fact that it isn't as hyped up as the Magic Kingdom.

I do think that some of the things in Epcot may need a little revamping. In all honesty, my heart breaks a little every time they take out something old to add something new. Horizons for example. Horizons was so outdated and old, but it frustrated me when they took it away and put in the Test Track.

I feel like alot of times, Disney tries too much to modernize in order to please the masses of thrill seekers and adventurers and they forget what it is all about. I've written them quite a few letters over the Carousel of Progress.

As for the Universe of Energy, I remember before they revamped it and added Ellen as their host. Back when my dad and I would use the ride as a cooling off spot and then we'd doze off after the dinosaurs. I think that Ellen and Bill Nye make it funny and interesting.

 

[Xadllas]

Well Im sorry but not everything is perfect. In my opinion Mission: SPACE deserves the old recking ball!!:fork:

 

[jedimaster1227]

imagination is another complex that needs a little help too.

To quote Mrs. Doubtfire, "Help is on the way dear! Help is on the way!"

Be patient, reinforcements are ready to be deployed soon! :animwink:

 

[Xadllas]

To quote Mrs. Doubtfire, "Help is on the way dear! Help is on the way!"

Be patient, reinforcements are ready to be deployed soon! :animwink:

Really?!?!?! If so::sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:

 

[darthjohnny]

I think that some of the rides are supposed to inspire us to think about the future state of things, like Journey into Imagination, The Seas with Nemo and Friends, Universe of Energy and the Land Pavillion. Spaceship Earth looks like it might be updated. And Test Track is really like the not-too-distant future of transportation, and of course Mission: Space is the Future.

I'm happy with Future World.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

This is something I have actually thought a lot about since working in "future" world in 2002. Some of my thoughts:

1. Epcot is currently on the brink of having a cohesive theme again. Before, it was an individual showcase of the accomplishments of people. It was meant to inspire then entertain (note educate is not in there). Now, the focus has shifted a bit. It is more "fun"-oriented. However, it is still meant as a showcase for human accomplishment. It just shows us the fun side of that instead of the inspirational side. In a way, the entire park has become what Kitchen Kabaret was in the 1980s, and I don't think that is a bad thing.

Where the issue is is that that hasn't been stated. I think the Technology Showcase idea is interesting, but I personally would advocate for the Future Worlds Fair banner. It harkens to what was before, but it has a different connotation. It is a showcase of what we have done that will bring us into tomorrow. Have SSE and Innov. be part of the Future Core (subland). Then you have FWF East and West, like we do now. Keep the center as the inspriational showcase of cutting edge technology (and ramp it up more). Then have the ring around it showcase the fun side of what we have done as a species (much like it does now - be a part and experience it!).

2. Now, more than ever, we could use a nice set of logos to tie everything together. This park SCREAMS marketing potential under the guide of the prior Worlds Fair's. I think that has always been underutilized. Since this really is focusing on the fun side, I firmly believe audiences will be more receptive to this. It is an ample opportunity to again inspire... just in a different way.

3. By focusing on the present instead of the future, we can slow down the outdatedness. It also allows for minor tweaks and installations to update. Really, the only attractions that need constant monitoring would be SSE and Innov. (easily done). If we find cars are going to look at alternative fuel runs, add a section on the curve tests dealing with efficiency or take out the blocks and deal with emissions testing. Lots of potential. If we develop a new growing system that allows space growth, add a section to LwtL. easy, minor rehab updates that freshen up the attractions and the message.

4. Don't be afraid of the adults. There is a lot of fun to be had at Epcot, and you may have to grow into it. In a way, it is the new PI. A place for adults to unwind and experience something they can't elsewhere. If kids see that, they will want to come back (eventually) to experience it for themselves. Some pandering works, but the line of showing what we do and having fun doing it will always appeal to almost everyone. That's why FW was always my favorite area as a kid in all of WDW. By switching to this side of the future, I think it is true even more. Plus, the more you know as you age, the better you appreciate what goes into it.

 

[jedimaster1227]

Well Im sorry but not everything is perfect. In my opinion Mission: SPACE deserves the old recking ball!!:fork:

For me, Mission:Space was a huge letdown, as I had been tracking the project long before HP took the reigns. The project had potential for true greatness, but budgets became a factor, cutting your experience in so many ways that the version that you experience now is a mere shadow of its original concept.

Really?!?!?! If so::sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:

Yes. Just not for Epcot's 25th.

I think that some of the rides are supposed to inspire us to think about the future state of things, like Journey into Imagination, The Seas with Nemo and Friends, Universe of Energy and the Land Pavillion. Spaceship Earth looks like it might be updated. And Test Track is really like the not-too-distant future, and of course Mission: Space is the Future.

I'm happy with Future World.

Journey into Imagination attempts to inspire, but Figment's annoying farts and Eric Idle's confused antics really put a damper on that effort.
The Seas impressed me in the sense that it did bring the Edu-tainment back to the Living Seas.
Universe of Energy is also in need of a fix, but I could see it fixed with just a few minor script and show scene changes, plus the return of a certain theme formerly removed from the pavilion.
The Land does a fine job as the nicest of the Future World pavilions, and my only hitch with it is that the Circle of Life film is still shown. My solution- bring back Food Rocks and replace Simba with The Utensils! :sohappy:
Wonders of Life in my eyes is the most in need of a fix. I think that Cranium Command is a great show, and should be retained, but Body Wars is extremely run down. The ride induced dizzyness for me for the first time. This coming from a person that rides coasters at least 20 times a week, that is pretty hard to do.

I have some issues with Future World, but it is good enough for now to keep me coming back to see its latest or oldest.

 

[marni1971]

To briefly rekindle an old debate (otherwise I`ll be here for days...what do you mean I am already??!)

Futureworld today is a mess. It`s a conflict of its parts. It has some great attractions, and some not so good ones. But they all pull for attention; the original park (okay...say early 90`s) had each pavilion complementing the others. Be it decor, signage, style of attraction (though they were as diverse as today) the entire (half) park had unity. It felt as one. Not anymore.

It was also a state of the art park. Everything was new, nothing had been done quite like it`s components before - in the same place. Where in part it`s been let down is virtually everything today is an indirect clone. The outside world has caught up. Staying unique costs money, and I`m not sure any company - sponsored or not - can afford to do that anymore. EPCOT Center brought the parent company to it`s knees. It was nearly the end of Disney. So much at stake for something so different, yet such a part of the company, the Orlando project, and it`s founder (not the place to debate E.P.C.O.T. vs EPCOT) - risks aside, I don`t think it`ll happen again in the western world. What`s 1982s $1.2Billion in todays terms?

The path chosen was a quick, cheap fix, trying to fix something that wasn`t broke. It needed heavy maintainence, but wasn`t beyond repair. Horizons was planned for a complete update - of the same attraction - but the cost was too high, for GE and anyone else. Energy was proposed to take a darker, effects laden less-education-more-thrilling line, but that fell through and the cheaper to make 3 films were produced instead. Just look at Imagination. The ultimate result of doing on the cheap. JIYI was the perfect example of a fragmented ride - good intentions, bad planning, some good parts but on a whole not as good as the promise. EPCOT Center was greater than the sum of it`s parts. Today the parts may be good in places, but they don`t add up to the right total anymore.

 

[marni1971]

There is a lot of fun to be had at Epcot, and you may have to grow into it. In a way, it is the new PI.

So well put. It`s not the Magic Kingdom. Stop trying.

 

[Xadllas]

For me, Mission:Space was a huge letdown, as I had been tracking the project long before HP took the reigns. The project had potential for true greatness, but budgets became a factor, cutting your experience in so many ways that the version that you experience now is a mere shadow of its original concept.



Yes. Just not for Epcot's 25th.



Journey into Imagination attempts to inspire, but Figment's annoying farts and Eric Idle's confused antics really put a damper on that effort.
The Seas impressed me in the sense that it did bring the Edu-tainment back to the Living Seas.
Universe of Energy is also in need of a fix, but I could see it fixed with just a few minor script and show scene changes, plus the return of a certain theme formerly removed from the pavilion.
The Land does a fine job as the nicest of the Future World pavilions, and my only hitch with it is that the Circle of Life film is still shown. My solution- bring back Food Rocks and replace Simba with The Utensils! :sohappy:
Wonders of Life in my eyes is the most in need of a fix. I think that Cranium Command is a great show, and should be retained, but Body Wars is extremely run down. The ride induced dizzyness for me for the first time. This coming from a person that rides coasters at least 20 times a week, that is pretty hard to do.

I have some issues with Future World, but it is good enough for now to keep me coming back to see its latest or oldest.

I really miss Food Rocks... But I like Circle of Life too.. Oh its so hard to choose.