Is Disney Expensive?

[marni1971]

Now your point of receiving less with Disney....I disagree with. .

That’s okay.

 

[brifraz]

For me if I wanted to go to NYC and I am making plans I can do it a lot cheaper than in your budget.

Last time I went to Pandora "Fast Passes" forget it they are all gone.
The boring boat ride 2 hour wait, the only other attraction 4 hours ...... "No thanks"
All day long people packed the places and the shortest line was maybe 45 minutes...... this is fun ?

You can definitely do NYC cheaper, but I was trying to compare things that were somewhat comparable in terms of location and amenities. Sorry about your Pandora experience, we waited a total of 40 minutes for both rides a couple months ago on a Saturday - got there a little before EMH opening and went straight to Flight, then did the boat ride with an easily obtained FP+. Over Christmas week, we scored a Flight FP+ just two days before we arrived - sure was a nice break.

You mentioned that Disney is somewhere around 36 hours for 3 days, so 12 hours a day. Realistically, let's break down how much time of that 12 you actually lose:

• 1.5 - 2 hours for eating (assuming TS and QS you mentioned)
• 1 hour waiting for a headliner attraction (assuming you got at least 1 or 2 FP for the other headliner at the park)
• 3 hours waiting at 7 - 8 second tier attractions (20 min each, which is impossible during Easter but for a baseline)

Before you know it, you've lost 6 hours of the 12 waiting or eating. I personally still think it's absolutely worth it going to Disney, but I think it's also important to recognize that you pay a premium over other vacations to do so.

Our 'realistically' is a bit skewed for sure - as two teachers with a high school student daughter, we usually spend about 45 minutes at a TS and 15-20 at a CS (obviously pending service). We don't wait in line for anything more that 30 minutes. The 40 we waited for Flight of Passage in February was an aberration to our usual touring approach. But the 'entertainment' at the restaurants at Disney is certainly much more than at the comparably priced NYC restaurants we visited last weekend. 12 hours might be a stretch, but for our family not an totally unrealistic amount of entertainment in a day at Disney.

The OP listed average costs - not the most expensive hotel in either place, nor the cheapest.
BTW, I would really like the name of that hotel 3 blocks off of Times Square that goes for less than $200/night.

Ours was 'The Hotel @ Times Square' and it was just under $300 a night, but that was Easter weekend - I suspect you can get it much cheaper and very close to the action (and comparable to an All-Star in terms of quality of room and service).

I do find NYC to be very expensive compared to home. I also find WDW to be even more so with less service for hotels in general. The OP may have used averages, but they also picked a very cheap hotel for Disney. On average the prices are the same though NYC will blow away Disney in hotel service IMO

I compared the hotel we stayed at in NYC to an All-Star resort for the same time period. I would argue that the Disney resort has a much higher level of hotel service. If I stayed at a NYC resort that was $500/night, I would expect much higher level of service - but I'm not sure it would be all that much better than what we get at Old Key West (granted a lot of the staff there knows us by now). BTW, our hotel was $296/night and was an Apple Core hotel (which you mentioned in your other post).

Point being- Entertainment is Expensive, not just Disney.

Bingo. That was the point!

Entertainment is expensive!

Again, bingo!

I deliberately made this post on a Thursday when I knew it wouldn't get a lot of traffic as I'm not one to get into many arguments on here! Interesting to see how much it blew up once we got to Saturday! My point was simply that any kind of entertainment is expensive these days and, for my money, Disney is actually a better deal than most entertainment options that I have experienced.

I could certainly compare it to another theme park, certainly - we spent 3 years as season pass holders to Hershey Park and this year have APs at Universal Orlando. For us, the value of our APs at Disney is vastly greater - perhaps not in number of attractions or 'thrills' but in terms of overall quality of experience.

I appreciate the comparisons to trips to the beach that a few have made as that is a vacation choice that many make and claim is 'so much cheaper' than Disney...until you really add up all the price tags and what you really are getting for your money.

As a high school teacher and (sometimes) professional musician, I've gone to and/or played in hundreds of concerts and shows in my life and just about every time I'm sitting at a concert I think about the ticket price and how much entertainment am I really getting for that price. It's a comparison that (surprisingly) nobody on here has made yet (or if they did, sorry I missed it). A local band show around here is likely $20-$30 for a couple hours of music. A regional band is likely to get closer to $50 and a big time tour is generally in the $100 range. Still just a couple hours of music and often performed note-for-(digital)-note the same as it is on the CD with possibly a cool light show and a big screen showing a video. Is that comparable to 12+ hours in a Disney park? Not for me! (luckily as a jazz guy, most acts that I see aren't charging THAT much and every show is different).

Having been going to WDW since the 1970s as a kid and the 1990s as an adult, I know that is has changed but so has the rest of the entertainment world and I'm not convinced that Disney really is all that expensive in the current entertainment world!

 

[Lets Respect]

It is difficult.

Here’s what’s not: compare line item pricing from different periods and the experience based on number of attractions/wait times.

Absolutely. But our perceptions based on all of the other factors seep in.

Even keeping it to strictly tickets, how does a tourist who comes for one week a year discuss value with a local AP? Pointless IMO

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Absolutely. But our perceptions based on all of the other factors seep in.

Even keeping it to strictly tickets, how does a tourist who comes for one week a year discuss value with a local AP? Pointless IMO

Exactly. It's like me discussing value with a Madrileno about visiting the The Prado.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Norwegian. Thanksgiving week.

However, I think Royal Caribbean has also increased all of the same fees/gratuities/fare.

They have...thanksgiving is tough.

We’re look at RCL for thanksgiving 2019 and it’s not bad right now. The real problem is that you can’t get the normal promos...so you really have to just get it early and pay the starting price

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Absolutely. But our perceptions based on all of the other factors seep in.

Even keeping it to strictly tickets, how does a tourist who comes for one week a year discuss value with a local AP? Pointless IMO

Florida residents shouldn’t even bother with the value argument. Florida tickets are always a way better “value” than anyone else. That’s the whole point of local tickets. It’s designed for low income
Markets and maintained to boost revenues in the bad times.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Paying more is completely discretionary. You don't have to pay more unless you opt to. I pay 300% more for a gallon of gasoline compared to pricing in the 80's. An average house costs 300% more as well. It's the same gas and the same house.

Now your point of receiving less with Disney....I disagree with. Look nobody is saying that Disney doesn't cost more on average. Sure there are individual things that have been impacted....But getting less, overall? If you plan properly, are aware of costs....you can make educated decisions to keep spending minimal....and get fair entertainment value to boot.

It's free to stroll through Disney Springs....It doesn't cost anything to visit AKL and check out the Savannah.....Hanging out for an hour listening to Yehaa at POR doesn't require payment for admission, neither does checking out the WL at Christmas time or the gingerbread house at GF. My kids can watch outdoor movies at the resort we are staying at or opt for a campfire with smores (sure it's built into the hotel rate..but if I partake I'm not charged separately for that).

Now let's go back to the mid eighties where there were 2 parks, about 3 hotels (EPCOT resorts didn't open til 90), 1 water park and a somewhat limited Disney Marketplace (pre PI). If you think you are receiving less entertainment options right now than you did back then.....well......we perceive things a bit differently.

If you pay a price greater than inflation for the same or similar attractions...it’s not discretionary. I’m not saying that’s the case...but it can be calculated.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

If you pay a price greater than inflation for the same or similar attractions...it’s not discretionary. I’m not saying that’s the case...but it can be calculated.

I'm not talking specifically about "attractions" I responded to a post saying they felt they were paying more and getting less in the entertainment area. Attractions would be included, but not limited to. If you want compare entertainment options provided a decade ago vs what is offered today....that's the point.

A lot of people point to "The Parks"....for me Disney is more than just "The Parks".

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not talking specifically about "attractions" I responded to a post saying they felt they were paying more and getting less in the entertainment area. Attractions would be included, but not limited to. If you want compare entertainment options provided a decade ago vs what is offered today....that's the point.

A lot of people point to "The Parks"....for me Disney is more than just "The Parks".

Well...that’s actually an easier argument...there is less entertainment and attractions per capita than there was then.

Mgm will LOSE attractions when the construction is complete. Epcot is down now...magical kingdom is flush and ak is slightly us...but with longer waits to deal with.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Absolutely. But our perceptions based on all of the other factors seep in.

Even keeping it to strictly tickets, how does a tourist who comes for one week a year discuss value with a local AP? Pointless IMO

Amen!!
And trying to compare ticket prices from 1970 to today values. How I vacationed in the 70s is totally irrelevant since it was totally different. Lol to start with I didn't pay

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Well...that’s actually an easier argument...there is less entertainment and attractions per capita than there was then.

Okay. Since my post referenced mid-80's lets look at some entertainment options available now (or recently) that didn't exist then

DHS
AK
Savannah at AKL
Downtown Disney (now gone)
Pleasure Island (now gone)
Boardwalk
Typhoon Lagoon
Blizzard Beach
Disney Springs
La Nouba (now gone)
DWWS
Trader Sam's
Ohana
MNSSHP
MVMCP
Food & Wine
Flower and Garden
Holidays Around the World
Osbourne Lights (now gone)
Illuminations

All Entertainment options not available in 1985. I could rattle off another 20 just as easily. And just to be clear...this isn't about Disney costing more. This is in direct response to Disney having less "entertainment options" today than they did 30 years ago.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Okay. Since my post referenced mid-80's lets look at some entertainment options available now (or recently) that didn't exist then

DHS
AK
Savannah at AKL
Downtown Disney (now gone)
Pleasure Island (now gone)
Boardwalk
Typhoon Lagoon
Blizzard Beach
Disney Springs
La Nouba (now gone)
DWWS
Trader Sam's
Ohana
MNSSHP
MVMCP
Food & Wine
Flower and Garden
Holidays Around the World
Osbourne Lights (now gone)
Illuminations

All Entertainment options not available in 1985. I could rattle off another 20 just as easily. And just to be clear...this isn't about Disney costing more. This is in direct response to Disney having less "entertainment options" today than they did 30 years ago.

My bench point is 2002...when it was $52.53 with tax for a ticket. 4 parks...3 waterparks...long hours.

If you make the value comparison...there really isn’t one.

However...I can reference the 1992 prices (24 per day on a 4 day) if you wish...I’d have to do more research for the 80s.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Obviously not.

Despite paying more to receive less. Especially in the entertainment area.

I don’t see it that way. There are new and different experiences today. Pandora is brand new. There are entire new parks and areas vs the 80s and parts of the 90s. I agree there should be more expansion, but Disney isn’t in position to charge less with the crowds of today.

Who is to say the market has corrected a previous pricing inefficiency? Disney built the brand and more people come than ever. You can’t always compare today to the good old days. A lot of factors give Disney and other travel destinations pricing power. They got us hooked on the parks in the 80s and 90s and now we are paying for it.

Other theme parks have increased prices and it’s not only because of new build out. It’s a response to demand.

The same beach I visited 2 years ago charges $100/night more and added $15/day to the already $60/day resort fee. Beach didn’t change. Amenities didn’t change. They did it because they can. I just don’t begrudge companies for using pricing power. They don’t force me to come.

 

[Chef Mickey]

They’ve doubled them in 12...hence the “about”...

And the wait times are not reflective of the experiences.

Do you live in Oviedo? Because the perspective is always a bit off if you’re living the “dream” in central Florida.

I actually don’t live in Florida, but I am an insane Disney fan. 12 years is a long time. Money invested doubles every 8-9 years on average, so I’m coming out ahead.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t see it that way. There are new and different experiences today. Pandora is brand new. There are entire new parks and areas vs the 80s and parts of the 90s. I agree there should be more expansion, but Disney isn’t in position to charge less with the crowds of today.

Who is to say the market has corrected a previous pricing inefficiency? Disney built the brand and more people come than ever. You can’t always compare today to the good old days. A lot of factors give Disney and other travel destinations pricing power. They got us hooked on the parks in the 80s and 90s and now we are paying for it.

Other theme parks have increased prices and it’s not only because of new build out. It’s a response to demand.

Disney was still the most expensive family option for the middle class in the 80s and 90s...now you’re saying you “owe” them for it?

You really gotta roll on Dis...like minded people.

Disney’s price increase under iger are not a response to supply and demand (another red herring)....it’s to boost stock value and to compensate for their failure to adjust to the tv decline. They made gobs before...it’s not that they are trying to limit attendance...he’s gambling you won’t hit your breaking point till he retires.

But you seem to be a Florida resident...do you go for 7 days in $500 rooms and pay $120-$175 average sit down meals for 4 like I did last week? I think not...which means your experience doesn’t exactly equate to mine.

It is a matter of perspective...as others have pointed out.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Wait a second...you said “incredible value”...now you’ve pivoted to “times change”...

Is it a kidney or a leg? Which way do you want it?...increases above inflation along with comparative lack of addition or upkeep is a decline in value.

I don’t care which way you want it...just pick a way.

And “people” having more money now than the 80’s and 90’s relative to inflation is false. Some have much more...the majority have less.

Travel has changed...but that doesn’t make a broader economic argument.

Super incredible value to just incredibly good value. Times change that it won’t always be the best value ever. Adjectives are fluid, but Disney is still a solid value.

I’m with Gates and Buffett on the people are living better today than any point in history discussion. I do think people, on average, are MUCH better off than 30 years ago from an economic perspective. Absolutely.

You’re arguing people have less on average than 30 years ago? You said false that in general people are better off, so I’d love to see your proof.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

My bench point is 2002...when it was $52.53 with tax for a ticket. 4 parks...3 waterparks...long hours.

If you make the value comparison...there really isn’t one.

However...I can reference the 1992 prices (24 per day on a 4 day) if you wish...I’d have to do more research for the 80s.

Costs...... again all perception...

At least 10 times a year I sit on my deck on a Saturday morning with my wife drinking coffee and discuss "What do you want to do today?"....."Don't know...you want to surprise the kids with a day-trip to DS, EPCOT, MK?" - For me that equates to about $200-$300 which is just a slight bit more than spending a few hours at a restaurant overlooking the Intracoastal. For me that's acceptable. If I had to add in airfare, one night at a hotel, a TS dinner - and now I'm looking at $1k for a day. Maybe not so acceptable.

Locals (close to local in my case) have a different value calculation, because a lot of the ancillary costs don't exist. For me to go to F&W it's about $20. I base that on the cost of my AP divided by the number of days annually I'm in the parks.

If I asked someone in Minnesota how much it would cost them to go the F&W for a day - I'd get $100 for the ticket, $400 for airfare, another $150 for a decent hotel and maybe $80 for transportation.

If they asked me how much it would cost to go to spend a day at Mall of the America's - they'd say it was free - but for me it'd cost about $500 for airfare and hotel.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Disney was still the most expensive family option for the middle class in the 80s and 90s...now you’re saying you “owe” them for it?

You really gotta roll on Dis...like minded people.

Disney’s price increase under iger are not a response to supply and demand (another red herring)....it’s to boost stock value and to compensate for their failure to adjust to the tv decline. They made gobs before...it’s not that they are trying to limit attendance...he’s gambling you won’t hit your breaking point till he retires.

But you seem to be a Florida resident...do you go for 7 days in $500 rooms and pay $120-$175 average sit down meals for 4 like I did last week? I think not...which means your experience doesn’t exactly equate to mine.

It is a matter of perspective...as others have pointed out.

I can always choose to go or not. What I’m saying is you’ll pay more for the service as the company gains more pricing power, which they have. I don’t see a problem with that at all.

You can’t fault them for charging what people will pay. I dislike Iger and what he’s done to WDW, using it as a cash cow and failing to expand, but it’s business. You can vote with your wallet, but I choose to go because I still see the value. I’ve spent like $25K in a year going to Disney, with Tokyo mixed in there. I’m pretty crazy when it comes to Disney and am not a Florida resident. I eat the table service food, stay at mid and deluxe resorts, the while bit.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I actually don’t live in Florida, but I am an insane Disney fan. 12 years is a long time. Money invested doubles every 8-9 years on average, so I’m coming out ahead.

You’ve identified as a “foamer”...a term recently explained to me.

Disney is your life...it’s valued at a much higher level than 90%+ of the market. That’s your reality...but it’s not representative of the mass argument.

The original post was “is disney expensive?” Currently, for most...the answer is some degree of “yes”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I can always choose to go or not. What I’m saying is you’ll pay more for the service as the company gains more pricing power, which they have. I don’t see a problem with that at all.

The problem is their value is in their longterm viability and loyalty...it always has been when times are rough. The current pricing trajectory will erode that.

It’s alot more than the S&D curve.

A fascinating thing to watch - for sure.