Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Lilofan]

In hindsight, it really is kinda surprising how aggressive they were with the perk cuts and simultaneous price increases. Like can you imagine going to your favorite restaurant and they say "Cutlery is no longer complimentary, you'll need to purchase it. Also you enter a paid lottery to see what you can order. And you bus your own table. Oh and we raised prices 40%. Enjoy." Businesses are always trying to up their profits but it doesn't typically happen in such a "Whoa!! What the heck!!" kinda way. This is in no way a comprehensive list but there was: Magical Express, Extra Magic Hours, Magic Bands, package delivery, daily housekeeping at all hotels, room service, airline check-in, street performers, and of course, FastPass+. I'm not an annual passholder so I'm not up on what went on there, but I know that wasn't good either.

I will say that from 2020 - 2022 there was this sense that Disney was invincible though. I remember all the debates on these boards from that time between "People think they're too big to fail but they're not" and "Oh please, for every one person who leaves three take their place." That's probably the only context that the perks slashing / price increase spree makes some kind of sense. They were the 800 pound gorilla for awhile. I am still a starry eyed Disney fan who thinks market correction and a bit of competition from Universal will right this ship quickly, but I do think that era is, again, almost shocking in hindsight. There was no attempt to even "sell" any of it - no purchasing an "Ultra Deluxe Ticket!!" with Genie priced in that came with a sparkly cupcake and trinket or something.

The few who keep talking market correction have been talking this for years even though market conditions are at record levels and a number of investors on paper have seen their net worth just keep going up up and up.

 

[DisneyHead123]

The few who keep talking market correction have been talking this for years even though market conditions are at record levels and a number of investors on paper have seen their net worth just keep going up up and up.

When I say market correction I’m thinking of what appears to be a drop off in attendance. That is pretty new.

 

[Lilofan]

When I say market correction I’m thinking of what appears to be a drop off in attendance. That is pretty new.

And what Disney is doing by raising prices with falling attendance is increasing their profits. This is usually not taught in MBA school. But then again Iger went from college to ABC earning $150 per week as an assistant's assistant ( aka gopher ) to start his 50 year career with Disney.

 

[monothingie]

Inflation is definitely hitting families hard so I agree that’s a big part of it.

Free FP+ and magical express going away and then charging for LL and ILLs I think were a big part of self inflicting wounds too.

Eventually even the chumps catch on. It’s not like they’ve been secretive of their desire to maximize extracting money from guests.

 

[monothingie]

And what Disney is doing by raising prices with falling attendance is increasing their profits. This is usually not taught in business school.

You’re a troll right? That has to be the case.

 

[DisneyHead123]

And what Disney is doing by raising prices with falling attendance is increasing their profits. This is usually not taught in MBA school. But then again Iger went from college to ABC earning $150 per week as an assistant's assistant ( aka gopher ) to start his 50 year career with Disney.

There’s definitely been speculation about whether they want fewer people paying more or bigger crowds. I don’t know what makes more sense for Disney. On the one hand, yes, they are making a ton of money on Genie+ even if people don’t like it. On the other, Genie+ probably averages a cost between $25-30. One person buying a park ticket generates about 4 times the profit for them, so it wouldn't take a huge dip in attendance to offset those gains. But then again, with fewer people in the park, they have lower labor and operational costs. But then again, if the average park goer buys even a Coke, snack and one souvenir that's at least Genie+ level profits...

There's definitely a case to be made in either direction. My hunch is that park goer spending is not up enough to compensate for any dips in attendance, but my only proof of that is that dining reservations have been wide open recently. I think there was speculation that the availability of dining could be partially due to changes in the app though, so really, who knows?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Gotcha. I was fortunate to have ridden Rise a few times just after it opened and everything was working so that colors my impression. Your experience sounds awful. I think the poor reliability and non-working elements in Rise are black marks for Disney.

I don't really care if it's Mando or Rey or Chewy, but seeing them out and actually doing things in the land is always nice. The cutbacks on live entertainment and aliens in the land is my biggest disappointment with Galaxy's Edge.

I've been fortunate enough to ride a few other rides when they were (fairly) new, and experienced other ride stoppages (while waiting) that didn't bother me nearly as much. I'm sure we waited over two hours for Gringott's when it was new, but the queue is outdoors/fresh air, and a good section was shaded. I can't say we were happy, but then the preshows are so impressive, we felt it was worthwhile.

Test track also had a lot of downtime when it was new, and we got stuck waiting through shutdowns a number of times, but again, back when TT was new, it was exciting and unique, so worthwhile.

Rise and GE have/had some good ideas, but then I feel they partly got derailed along the way. Making a droid or lightsaber should be more reasonably priced. And then, what do you DO with them? The brilliance of the Harry Potter wands is that you can then interact with all the spells.

Mind, Universal 100% NEEDS to add more spells now!!! They REALLY should revise some of the older ones too. Keep them similar, but add something new, so they stay fresh. Even just added sound effects would be fun.

It is high time for the parks to have MORE interactive options and variability. In this regard, the little Moana walkthrough is a success. Now give us more Muppets variations. (There was a short period when the Muppets preshow had Uncle Deadly to promote one of the movies. That was fun. they should do that again.)

Part of what makes GoG compelling is that you don't know which song you'll get. That simple variation adds a lot of re-rideability.

 

[el_super]

cmon... you can't really believe that? Uni raises their prices when Disney does as well... were they trying to limit attendance too?

Of course I do, because it is the truth.

attendance did not go down just because of prices...many reasons for that...prices are just a part of it

And who exactly controls the prices?

You are right though, the heat has played a part too.

 

[el_super]

I can't believe for a second that Disney's business model of building parks that welcomed (and profited from) as many guests as possible since 1955 has been thrown out in favor of a more boutique sort of park experience with purposefully fewer guests spending more money. Sorry; that doesn't pass tests of basic economics or even logic.

Take it up with Iger. He basically said as much. When attendance goes down, people spend more money in the park. That's a fact.

Nevermind the fact that they have raised prices twice since this thread was started. So even after the fans noticed attendance declining, they continued to increase prices.

They are not dumb. They are the best in the business. They know what they are doing.

 

[monothingie]

They are not dumb. They are the best in the business. They know what they are doing.

From the same company that obliterated Marvel, Pixar, and Star Wars within the span of a decade!

Over spent on Fox to the tune of $70+B

And blew up the equivalent of a half dozen or more worth of cruise ships on a streaming service that will never come close to making it back.


Yup they sure do know what they’re doing!

 

[DisneyHead123]

Has anyone posted this article yet? Related to the topic of attendance with quotes from Len!

I will say the article has a particular slant, as do other recent articles that declare Disney is "Slashing prices", which seems like a bit of an overstatement, lol.

 

[JoeCamel]

Take it up with Iger. He basically said as much. When attendance goes down, people spend more money in the park. That's a fact.

He said it as a throwaway statement trying to look smart but it wasn't a line item on the 10K

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Take it up with Iger. He basically said as much. When attendance goes down, people spend more money in the park. That's a fact.

Nevermind the fact that they have raised prices twice since this thread was started. So even after the fans noticed attendance declining, they continued to increase prices.

They are not dumb. They are the best in the business. They know what they are doing.

This is exactly why I said earlier they are in a doom loop, the only way to save the company financials is to raise prices, which will lower attendance even further, so they’ll raise prices again, which will lower attendance even further… it’ll prop up profits for a while but it’s a short term solution at the expense of the long term.

What they need to do is bring back value, bring back all the perks they’ve eliminated, bring back entertainment, and bring back free FP, that would sell millions of tickets and hotel rooms in the long term but would tank profits in the short term, so they can’t do it.

Disney doesn’t have a single new ride under construction in America right now, they’ve cut every perk they can cut, they’ve monetized everything they can monetize, they are facing a strike in CA, and their stock is tanking… the current management team doesn’t seem to have a clue what they are doing.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

they’ve cut every perk they can cut, they’ve monetized everything they can monetize

A dangerous statement to say out loud

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

A dangerous statement to say out loud

True, I forgot who I was talking about, I’m sure the team at the helm will find some other way to nickel and dime their remaining guests… until they drive them away also.

 

[Grimley1968]

True, I forgot who I was talking about, I’m sure the team at the helm will find some other way to nickel and dime their remaining guests… until they drive them away also.

Parking lot trams! Charging for those will help drive even more guests away, and they might make a little extra for a day or two.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I mean, the other side of that is more people would require more labor and maintenance. Not only is it diminishing returns, but it's a slightly more crowded experience for each additional person in the parks. I'm sure they've modeled it.

Relatedly, one reason why the Four Seasons Orlando is > $1,200/night is that they're not chasing 80% occupancy. They're satisfied at a much higher price point, with much lower occupancy, and loyal guests who like the relaxed vibe. I have a friend who's a 4S member, and occasionally I tag along on a lounge-around-the-pool day. It's glorious.

I don't recall what Disney was offering during the 2009 downturn. I'm sure there were hotel discounts. Ticket discounts though?

…well since you asked:

 

[Willmark]

A dangerous statement to say out loud

Disney Consumer: "Thankfully, They can't possibly cut anymore."

Bean counter for the Mouse "Hold my beer."

 

[Lilofan]

Parking lot trams! Charging for those will help drive even more guests away, and they might make a little extra for a day or two.

WDI looks to design for realism. If that was the case the bathrooms at UK and France would be pay to use just like some in their countries. That would add some profits to feed the Mouse.

 

[GhostHost1000]

From the same company that obliterated Marvel, Pixar, and Star Wars within the span of a decade!

Over spent on Fox to the tune of $70+B

And blew up the equivalent of a half dozen or more worth of cruise ships on a streaming service that will never come close to making it back.


Yup they sure do know what they’re doing!

Disney can never do wrong according to some on here. Everything is planned out and absolutely perfect. Always. Bob has the magic and pixie dust is flying everywhere. We are so lucky to live in a time when Disney manages everything so well and every decision is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious