Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Figments Friend]

honest question, has the quality of anything at Disney increased or returned to its pre-pandemic levels?

I find the food at some of the better tablet service locations to still be quite good.
Boma is a win, Tusker House still has a nice variety, as has been a couple others I have sampled recently.

What I have noticed is the served portions are smaller…both plated and family style.
This is especially noticeable to me when it comes to the beverages this current visit.
Order a large sized drink, and it looks like a medium or a small cup at some places.

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[Sirwalterraleigh]

Totally agree with the crowd comment. Just because lines are long does not mean parks are crowded. Yes common sense can say that but there are so many other factors that are creating these longer waits

The key one being that sweater Bob allowed the “comfortable” attendance to exceed the ride capacity 10+ years ago.

Since he’s added essentially none…what worked for 45,000,000 does not work the same for 55,000,000

Cause math.

I mean…do we really believe that mine train and Peter Pan are 75 minute waits after park opening for any reason other than there’s just not enough seats?

So when people look at their app and say “woah…it’s crowded”. They’re missing that all 4 parks are now under built. And they also are using to sell 5 hour tickets for $150 a pop too.

Not to mention wait times = genie sales, there’s ZERO obligation for them to tell the truth, and zero way to prove anything about the wait times.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We started going in 2010. On our first few trips, we got the deluxe dining plan and ate at all the signature restaurants. We even got a wine package. I thought the food was really good. It may still be really good I just can't justify the price. My salary hasn't kept up with Disney prices.

That is likely true of 50% of their core parks clientele. Which means their price strategy is by default to eventually run them into the ground.

 

[JoeCamel]

I find the food at some of the better tablet service locations to still be quite good.
Boma is a win, Tusker House still has a nice variety, as has been a couple others I have sampled recently.

What I have noticed is the served portions are smaller…both plated and family style.
This is especially noticeable to me when it comes to the beverages this current visit.
Order a large sized drink, and it looks like a medium or a small cup at some places.

-

I have no problem downsizing portions, so much goes to waste

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I have no problem downsizing portions, so much goes to waste

True

But they’re still raising prices as they reduce product

Like the grocery store

That “gnaws” at consumers whether they know it or not

 

[Splash4eva]

The key one being that sweater Bob allowed the “comfortable” attendance to exceed the ride capacity 10+ years ago.

Since he’s added essentially none…what worked for 45,000,000 does not work the same for 55,000,000

Cause math.

I mean…do we really believe that mine train and Peter Pan are 75 minute waits after park opening for any reason other than there’s just not enough seats?

So when people look at their app and say “woah…it’s crowded”. They’re missing that all 4 parks are now under built. And they also are using to sell 5 hour tickets for $150 a pop too.

Not to mention wait times = genie sales, there’s ZERO obligation for them to tell the truth, and zero way to prove anything about the wait times.

As you say capacity is the biggest issue & another one that seems to be overlooked is this. Maybe its me but ride downtimes & closures seem to be at its highest in recent years which makes an already stressed capacity even worse.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As you say capacity is the biggest issue & another one that seems to be overlooked is this. Maybe its me but ride downtimes & closures seem to be at its highest in recent years which makes an already stressed capacity even worse.

Cuts to preventative maintenance - which has been well pointed out EVEN by dusters and was rampant under Slaphead - will do that.

There’s also the “theory” that rides that go 101 are kept down for a set periods/blocks to “cycle” them back only the virtual queue system. Which may have to be done from an IT perspective…but also inflates wait times and would sell more magic lamps

 

[monothingie]

Not to mention wait times = genie sales, there’s ZERO obligation for them to tell the truth, and zero way to prove anything about the wait times.

G+ means that they have no incentive to operate at full capacity on each ride.

I’m no lawyer, but if it can be proven that Disney intentionally is manipulating ride wait times to push G+ sales, that seems like fraud. @lentesta looks at actual wait times so he probably has a good data set.

Since Disney has such good friends in the state of Florida government right now, you wonder how long it would be until someone takes a look…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

G+ means that they have no incentive to operate at full capacity on each ride.

I’m no lawyer, but if it can be proven that Disney intentionally is manipulating ride wait times to push G+ sales, that seems like fraud. @lentesta looks at actual wait times so he probably has a good data set.

Since Disney has such good friends in the state of Florida government right now, you wonder how long it would be until someone takes a look…

Well what’s in the “small print” on genie?

We don’t have physical print media…but I bet dimes to dollars there is a disclaimer that basically says that ride wait times are estimates and “not accurate at all”

Weather forecasts…in other words.

And there is nothing to stop them from doing “conservative”. As in round up by 15,20,30 minutes.

All justifiable by even a cheap lawyer.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Here’s what I’m saying:

Not that they’re “cooking” wait times…it’s that they may be using them kinda “loosely”

Fastpass was designed to get you out of the lines and into the shops. Period. Full stop. No need to search for “reasons”.

By better management.

Genie and the wait times app are designed for two things:
1. Sell more genie
2. Get you out of the lines and into shops.

So what accomplishes those goals better? Higher wait times or lower?

Also…the audience is more “captive” now…because your Hotel price is double, your tickets are triple and in some cases your meals are quadruple the prices they were 20 years ago. So many of the fish…if not most…are trapped in the “pond” each day. Making them more susceptible to manipulation.

 

[monothingie]

Well what’s in the “small print” on genie?

We don’t have physical print media…but I bet dimes to dollars there is a disclaimer that basically says that ride wait times are estimates and “not accurate at all”

Weather forecasts…in other words.

And there is nothing to stop them from doing “conservative”. As in round up by 15,20,30 minutes.

All justifiable by even a cheap lawyer.

Nope.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/tickets-terms-conditions/

 

[monothingie]

Not that they’re “cooking” wait times…it’s that they may be using them kinda “loosely”

FP was free and universally available. Since G+ is not free, does Disney have a legal obligation to run each ride at max capacity to minimize standby wait times? Or accurately report Standby wait times?

 

[Lilofan]

I find the food at some of the better tablet service locations to still be quite good.
Boma is a win, Tusker House still has a nice variety, as has been a couple others I have sampled recently.

What I have noticed is the served portions are smaller…both plated and family style.
This is especially noticeable to me when it comes to the beverages this current visit.
Order a large sized drink, and it looks like a medium or a small cup at some places.

-

Every little cost savings is what's going on. Recall the time back in the day when resorts sheets , pillowcase and towels were changed daily? Daily full clean housekeeping? Savings on labor, product, laundry operation etc. Disney is not the only player in the game.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

FP was free and universally available. Since G+ is not free, does Disney have a legal obligation to run each ride at max capacity to minimize standby wait times? Or accurately report Standby wait times?

They tell you it was not “free”…but part of the ticket cost.
Having it split out doesn’t change legal obligation at all….IF it’s disclaimed

 

[Thepuma]

That is likely true of 50% of their core parks clientele. Which means their price strategy is by default to eventually run them into the ground.

Id say 50% is way way over estimated...I don't know a single person who has had a rise in the last 12/24 months that's matched inflation.

Id say 1 or 2 % of people have had regular wage rises the last 12/24 months in line with inflation...in the UK anyway.

 

[Thepuma]

They tell you it was not “free”…but part of the ticket cost.
Having it split out doesn’t change legal obligation at all….IF it’s disclaimed

Wow...so you're saying the price increases are even worse than we thought?

If the entrance price was $120 that means the entrance price was actually $95...so if you then say its $150 entrance and add the G+ on of $25...the real price to get in has gone from $95 to $175...things are therefore worse than even the most optimistic pro-Disney person imagined. Practically doubled in 2 years.

The reality is, FP+ wasn't factored into the price in any way shape or form. Why would it be, nobody ever imagined it was a chargeable extra at the time cos it wasn't. It was just seen as a perk.

G+ was, and still is a huge cash grab...nothing more nothing less.

 

[Thepuma]

Every little cost savings is what's going on. Recall the time back in the day when resorts sheets , pillowcase and towels were changed daily? Daily full clean housekeeping? Savings on labor, product, laundry operation etc. Disney is not the only player in the game.

Yep, Disney (and everyone else) used Covid as a perfect excuse to save money on wages. We all just accepted it and hence why they do it more and more.

I checked in the hotel last week and specifically asked for Housekeeping every day, which they obliged. Don't be the sheep in this equation as anyone who doesn't ask for full housekeeping is part of the problem.

 

[Lilofan]

Yep, Disney (and everyone else) used Covid as a perfect excuse to save money on wages. We all just accepted it and hence why they do it more and more.

I checked in the hotel last week and specifically asked for Housekeeping every day, which they obliged. Don't be the sheep in this equation as anyone who doesn't ask for full housekeeping is part of the problem.

Challenging to service rooms if you don't have enough cast in the operation . Baah , baah....

 

[Miss Bella]

I find the food at some of the better tablet service locations to still be quite good.
Boma is a win, Tusker House still has a nice variety, as has been a couple others I have sampled recently.

What I have noticed is the served portions are smaller…both plated and family style.
This is especially noticeable to me when it comes to the beverages this current visit.
Order a large sized drink, and it looks like a medium or a small cup at some places.

-

When we bought the deluxe dining packages we would do a QS and then a signature for dinner. I thought the signature restaurants were pretty good back then. Now they are just not in the budget. On our last few trips, we rented points for a preferred room at SSR and ate dinner somewhere in Disney Springs. I think the Disney Springs restaurants are better than the Epcot ones.

 

[Miss Bella]

That is likely true of 50% of their core parks clientele. Which means their price strategy is by default to eventually run them into the ground.

My salary is not keeping up with anything these days. My disposable income has shrunk due to the increase in food and energy costs. If that wasn't the case maybe WDW wouldn't seem so ridiculous. We are only going to be able to have one vacation next year and it won't be WDW. Hopefully, in 2025 it's not zero vacations.