Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Donald Razorduck]

Cedar Point Iowa? Guess not. I had to look up what Cedar Point was. OH isn't exactly a place where I'm thinking " oooohhh, let's go to OH for vacation !"

If they want rides and coasters it is. Cedar Point is a coaster mecca. I can formulate you a little circle trip in Ohio area for 5 to 7 days that offers up some great coaster and water park action.

By nearly 3 to 1 around these parts(NWA) folks prefer Universal over Disney now. Why...coasters are better. Plus... are there's the price and the declining perks like the airport shuttle that's gone.

Wall Street numbers greed and the desire to boost the stock via buybacks to line the execs pockets have come home to roost. Airline prices to Orlando as still some of the cheapest out there. Barely a difference over 2019 so that isn't it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Cedar Point Iowa? Guess not. I had to look up what Cedar Point was. OH isn't exactly a place where I'm thinking " oooohhh, let's go to OH for vacation !"

Don’t you live in Cincinnati?!?

 

[monothingie]

They have problems across the board and it’s spreading to all their business segments

Much or it being completely of their own doing.

Because Adam smith says things will sell at at an appropriate price in the market. They long ago abandoned the “backstop” policies and philosophy can’t protect them from slowing demand anymore

The problem is, they've intentionally defined their market so narrowly and alienated a significant enough portion of that market's customer base that any price change to boost demand won't have the impact they desire, because there aren't enough bodies there to make that impact.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Much or it being completely of their own doing.

You’re not expecting me to contradict that, are you?

The problem is, they've intentionally defined their market so narrowly and alienated a significant enough portion of that market's customer base that any price change to boost demand won't have the impact they desire, because there aren't enough bodies there to make that impact.

Yeah…based on price.

I know what you think it is and you know what I think it is…
Who wins in a knife fight? Ideology/politics or money?

 

[monothingie]

Who wins in a knife fight? Ideology/politics or money?

 

[Drdcm]

Much or it being completely of their own doing.

The problem is, they've intentionally defined their market so narrowly and alienated a significant enough portion of that market's customer base that any price change to boost demand won't have the impact they desire, because there aren't enough bodies there to make that impact.

I think they have to bring back the perks. Why go to Disney and pay the exorbitant hotel prices? If I go, I can just stay off site and miss out on what… a half hour standing in line for a popular attraction?

ME, EMH, Free Genie+, maybe throw in 1 ILL a day… entice people to come. I agree, it’s not all about the price anymore.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think they have to bring back the perks. Why go to Disney and pay the exorbitant hotel prices? If I go, I can just stay off site and miss out on what… a half hour standing in line for a popular attraction?

ME, EMH, Free Genie+, maybe throw in 1 ILL a day… entice people to come. I agree, it’s not all about the price anymore.

All those things are screens to distract from the price

Obviously some obvious mistakes were made. The one major bob of slap mistake was canning magical express

I guarantee Iger went nuts when he called the board members each day (3-4 times) from his shadow control room about that. That was STOOPID.

But the rest are all Iger hatched/endorsed things over the years to cut margins and overcharge as a “policy”

It’s why bank robbers wear a ski mask…you at least have to attempt to hide.

Magical express, an hour early at mgm and a prebrooked ride skip doesn’t make Caribbean worth $325 a night…especially when it will be 6/7 years before they roll out a new ride…minimum. Most of the people are repeat offenders. Eisner’s choice and it was the right one…see it through.

 

[Splash4eva]

You’re not expecting me to contradict that, are you?

Yeah…based on price.

I know what you think it is and you know what I think it is…
Who wins in a knife fight? Ideology/politics or money?

Personally think its a perfect storm now where a combo of many factors are contributing to this and as everyone has pretty much agreed upon most if not all if their own doings... one thing tho that i mentioned before that doesnt get enough traction imo is that kids nowadays to me are not entrenched in the disney bubble at home like prior years/generations. lack of disney store for kids to see lack of toys r us to see as well kids are watching more than just mickey mouse between social media/you tube stars kids have different interest at a young age and are not "brainwashed" that there is only mickey mouse... just how i see it with a daughter who is 10 from when she was born to now where i have plenty of people in my circle who have younger kids and are not entrenched...

 

[JD80]

Personally think its a perfect storm now where a combo of many factors are contributing to this and as everyone has pretty much agreed upon most if not all if their own doings... one thing tho that i mentioned before that doesnt get enough traction imo is that kids nowadays to me are not entrenched in the disney bubble at home like prior years/generations. lack of disney store for kids to see lack of toys r us to see as well kids are watching more than just mickey mouse between social media/you tube stars kids have different interest at a young age and are not "brainwashed" that there is only mickey mouse... just how i see it with a daughter who is 10 from when she was born to now where i have plenty of people in my circle who have younger kids and are not entrenched...

This is all just anecdotal because my experience is different (which is also anecdotal). My kids watch majority D+ along with their friends. I see no slow down of girls in princess costumes or kids in fab 5 clothing of all ages.

Kids see nothing but Disney stuff in Target when we go or unboxing Disney toys on Kids Youtube.

Disney Junior character are massively popular with all pre-school aged kids birthday party plates, balloons, table clothes etc from Party City. The stuff is everywhere.

My kids are age 5 8 and 10. Just say'in.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Personally think its a perfect storm now where a combo of many factors are contributing to this and as everyone has pretty much agreed upon most if not all if their own doings... one thing tho that i mentioned before that doesnt get enough traction imo is that kids nowadays to me are not entrenched in the disney bubble at home like prior years/generations. lack of disney store for kids to see lack of toys r us to see as well kids are watching more than just mickey mouse between social media/you tube stars kids have different interest at a young age and are not "brainwashed" that there is only mickey mouse... just how i see it with a daughter who is 10 from when she was born to now where i have plenty of people in my circle who have younger kids and are not entrenched...

…excellent

A big factor is the theater for me. Not only the disruption that a 2 year life pause and streaming has caused…

…but Disney is not “doing it better”
These days.

Avatar - not disney at all - throws dirt on how Disneys share is on the decline. You can’t expect to maintain the dominance they had 5-8 years ago…but they decided the labels were enough and took all their main properties kinda sideways…attempting to secure money 10 years from now by risking the money they were making today.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is all just anecdotal because my experience is different (which is also anecdotal). My kids watch majority D+ along with their friends. I see no slow down of girls in princess costumes or kids in fab 5 clothing of all ages.

Kids see nothing but Disney stuff in Target when we go or unboxing Disney toys on Kids Youtube.

Disney Junior character are massively popular with all pre-school aged kids birthday party plates, balloons, table clothes etc from Party City. The stuff is everywhere.

My kids are age 5 8 and 10. Just say'in.

You’re in that bubble.

Give it 5 years and see where they go? It will be Mr beast and games in the OASIS…

And those family trips “for them” to fantasyland will be really for you…and there will be no point to hiding it

We’ve all been there.

The point is that they are gonna have increasing trouble engaging that key “middle” demographic because of what they’re doing creatively. Don’t bomb what might keep a 17 or a 28 year old around.
Don’t do it.
Might be too late though.

 

[Splash4eva]

…excellent

A big factor is the theater for me. Not only the disruption that a 2 year life pause and streaming has caused…

…but Disney is not “doing it better”
These days.

Avatar - not disney at all - throws dirt on how Disneys share is on the decline. You can’t expect to maintain the dominance they had 5-8 years ago…but they decided the labels were enough and took all their main properties kinda sideways…attempting to secure money 10 years from now by risking the money they were making today.

agreed with the theatre as well it goes hand in hand... their recent flops and you can blame it on whatever you want.. refuse to get into that debate anymore people can believe what they want but numbers dont lie...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

agreed with the theatre as well it goes hand in hand... their recent flops and you can blame it on whatever you want.. refuse to get into that debate anymore people can believe what they want but numbers dont lie...

…uh oh…

 

[Splash4eva]

This is all just anecdotal because my experience is different (which is also anecdotal). My kids watch majority D+ along with their friends. I see no slow down of girls in princess costumes or kids in fab 5 clothing of all ages.

Kids see nothing but Disney stuff in Target when we go or unboxing Disney toys on Kids Youtube.

Disney Junior character are massively popular with all pre-school aged kids birthday party plates, balloons, table clothes etc from Party City. The stuff is everywhere.

My kids are age 5 8 and 10. Just say'in.

listen im not saying and i know you are not either saying that our situations are the majority and my daughter does still watch Disney Jr just not as much and im not saying kids are ditching disney but its definitely less at least from my current experiences again who knows if thats the new norm or not

 

[LSLS]

I just think people are noticing things. This last trip, I saw bottles in three different water ways. I actually stepped in gum when getting into some shade. Maybe it was just bad luck for me, but that stuff used to be cleaned up as quickly as it hit the ground it felt like. Im trying to remember if I saw any people walking around cleaning up last trip. I can remember it on one day (seeing one person). I also think word of mouth on this type of stuff is spreading. I know everyone is quick to say "People on these boards are just such a small sample size of people that go," but how many here are asked by lots of friends/relatives about when to go down? Where to stay? What is that genie thing? Etc. I think the die hards might have a larger impact than people realize.

 

[P_Radden]

My family and I stayed at Swan recently. We really considered going into Epcot, but the costs are out of control these days, and no fast passes. We had a good enough time watching the fire works from our balcony at Swan. It's sad to say, but I have no desire to return to WDW any time soon unless the it becomes a better value... And we got married there in 2015

 

[JD80]

I just think people are noticing things. This last trip, I saw bottles in three different water ways. I actually stepped in gum when getting into some shade. Maybe it was just bad luck for me, but that stuff used to be cleaned up as quickly as it hit the ground it felt like. Im trying to remember if I saw any people walking around cleaning up last trip. I can remember it on one day (seeing one person). I also think word of mouth on this type of stuff is spreading. I know everyone is quick to say "People on these boards are just such a small sample size of people that go," but how many here are asked by lots of friends/relatives about when to go down? Where to stay? What is that genie thing? Etc. I think the die hards might have a larger impact than people realize.

When my wife and I went down a year ago in the summer, some of the nights at MK where the parks were open to like 11PM we noticed a lot of trash, but also noticed a ton of teenagers - it was like being at Six Flags. It seemed like every family let their teenage kids head back out to the parks after they left for the day.

Went back in December last year and it wasn't like that at all.

I think some days are hit or miss unfortunately.

 

[Andrew25]

When my wife and I went down a year ago in the summer, some of the nights at MK where the parks were open to like 11PM we noticed a lot of trash, but also noticed a ton of teenagers - it was like being at Six Flags. It seemed like every family let their teenage kids head back out to the parks after they left for the day.

Went back in December last year and it wasn't like that at all.

I think some days are hit or miss unfortunately.

Last year they still had staffing issues... it's no longer an issue (nor excuse) today.

 

[DisneyHead123]

This is all just anecdotal because my experience is different (which is also anecdotal). My kids watch majority D+ along with their friends. I see no slow down of girls in princess costumes or kids in fab 5 clothing of all ages.

Kids see nothing but Disney stuff in Target when we go or unboxing Disney toys on Kids Youtube.

Disney Junior character are massively popular with all pre-school aged kids birthday party plates, balloons, table clothes etc from Party City. The stuff is everywhere.

My kids are age 5 8 and 10. Just say'in.

I think in some ways kids have more love of Disney these days but at the same time the playing field has widened exponentially. When I was a kid I loved Disney but my actual exposure to Disney cartoons was relatively limited. We had VHS tapes and tv specials (Disney Halloween Treats was an annual ritual, as was Mickey’s Christmas Carol). There were a few of the actual Fab 5 cartoons on sometimes but I didn’t care for them and much preferred Looney Tunes. I don’t even recall us have Disney toys, outside of park souvenirs. Yet everyone knew Disney was a big thing and going to Disney World was a highly anticipated event. I think by comparison, kids now watch more Disney, have more of the toys and so on, but there are so, so many other things (screen based entertainment in particular) competing for their attention.

 

[LSLS]

When my wife and I went down a year ago in the summer, some of the nights at MK where the parks were open to like 11PM we noticed a lot of trash, but also noticed a ton of teenagers - it was like being at Six Flags. It seemed like every family let their teenage kids head back out to the parks after they left for the day.

Went back in December last year and it wasn't like that at all.

I think some days are hit or miss unfortunately.

Funny enough I noticed a lot more issues with the older crowd than any younger people, but I didn't see groups of teenagers running around. I also don't let that roll as an excuse because a few years ago (maybe just one, can't remember) it was shocking to me how much cleaner Cedar Point was than Disney.