Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Dranth]

Nobody ever believes it…even though it’s fact…

But politics has had little to no impact on Disney park attendance at any point in its history…

Just because the talking picture panel has gotten boomer riled up as they lose their acuity…and Xers in depressed economic areas of no hope (there…I just explained the last 10 years for you and didn’t even make you work for it )…doesn’t mean people that have the money don’t flood Disney parks

So what’s the problem then?

Negative word of month from the regulars over the nickel and diming, quality issues and reduced services likely has more of an impact long term than anything political but number one and two by a mile is always going to be cost and broader economic issues. Those two can flip between the top spot depending on the day.

Disney can't control the economy but pricing is all on them. Iger upped pricing regularly but Chapek went nuclear and drove the car off the cliff.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Negative word of month from the regulars over the nickel and diming, quality issues and reduced services likely has more of an impact long term than anything political but number one and two by a mile is always going to be cost and broader economic issues. Those two can flip between the top spot depending on the day.

Disney can't control the economy but pricing is all on them. Iger upped pricing regularly but Chapek went nuclear and drove the car off the cliff.

You are correct here but what’s scary for the rat is the economy is not “down”

What happened is price hikes under the coivd shield has wrecked the budgets and credit of about 75% of the US population…
And though none of us here at the Disney luxury lawn and country club want to believe it - a big part of their customers come from that 75%…
Maybe they only go once?…but there’s always been a supply chain “circle” That regenerates from the middle class.

If somehow that’s “broken”?…the parks are in deep

…no other way to say it

 

[Disstevefan1]

No indications they had even close to a “normal crowd”

I may have miss used the word normal, but whatever crowd level they were getting seemed to be better for the guest experience by what was being reported as the wait times.

My point was, if the crowds are lower and it helps the guest experience, instead of panicking and say the sky is falling, guests should enjoy it while it lasts because it won't.

 

[monothingie]

I’d encourage all lamenting Disney box office as ‘yet another’ sign of their downfall to read the article linked below. It provides a much more balanced industry-wide view of the challenges most studios are having with box office this year.

The 2023 movie box office will need a strong second half after an inconsistent first six months

While the domestic box office has tallied $4.46 billion in sales through June 30, a nearly 20% increase over the same period in 2022, it still lags behind 2019.

www.cnbc.com

"Box office experts noted that 2023 has several big releases still to come in the second half, including “Barbie,” “Oppenheimer,” “The Exorcist: Believer” and “Dune: Part Two.”

I tuned out after this, and anyone with a functioning brain should have also.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I may have miss used the word normal, but whatever crowd level they were getting seemed to be better for the guest experience by what was being reported as the wait times.

My point was, if the crowds are lower and it helps the guest experience, instead of panicking and say the sky is falling, guests should enjoy it while it lasts because it won't.

Remains to be seen?

They’re in trouble on the corporate level

 

[solidyne]

[...] “Barbie,” “Oppenheimer,” “The Exorcist: Believer” and “Dune: Part Two.” [...]

"One of these things is not like the other"

 

[gorillaball]

It’s a variety of factors

Price is first and foremost.
Charging a lot to get in and then charging to not get on only 4-5 rides a day is a hard sell.

But the planning has to be huge too. Universal is about the same prices…but they aren’t trying to make people schedule every second so they can save a Buck or two here and there on a college programmer.
It’s just asking too much.

I feel like a lot of what you say is over the top banter, but agree with the above basics.

 

[monothingie]

My point was, if the crowds are lower and it helps the guest experience, instead of panicking and say the sky is falling, guests should enjoy it while it lasts because it won't.

Historically, underperforming theme parks result in labor/service/operating hour cuts, deferred maintenance, canceled projects, and rising prices.

 

[DisneyHead123]

It is a bit cheaper other times of year - we are going end of August and POR is $200.25/night for Riverview 5 sleeper

$305 after the discount for a moderate is kinda nuts

I was looking at dates in November and not only was French Quarter in the 300s, Art of Animation was in the 400s, discounted from the “standard rate”, in the 500s. That blew my mind since it’s a value resort - I get that families love the heavy Disney theming there but you could stay at AK for that price!

 

[eliza61nyc]

We only lost $450 Million at the box office! We only lost $450 Million at the box office! We're winners! People love us!

Or something.

That's pretty common in many industries, my chemical company always puts out statements like "we had a poor year" we only brought in 800 million. Lol usually it's used as an excuse why we weren't getting raises

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I feel like a lot of what you say is over the top banter, but agree with the above basics.

It’s “superfluous metaphor”…thank you very much

 

[eliza61nyc]

And have a bunch of diehard Disney fans defend paying less. I still go to the parks but the amount of people I see defend the blatant greediness is just........wow.

Because maybe for them they see it as worth the month. See here's the thing that I think really bothers people here. YOU don't get to decide how or what people value. Nor do you get to decide for someone else what the feel is greedy.

People here aren't so much as mad at Disney as they are mad that everyone doesn't feel like them

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's pretty common in many industries, my chemical company always puts out statements like "we had a poor year" we only brought in 800 million. Lol usually it's used as an excuse why we weren't getting raises

Difference being TWDC is a 101% frivolous company. All their product is disposal and not needed by anyone.

So the confidence game is even more vital to them than DuPont, 3M, or Dow

 

[Disstevefan1]

Historically, underperforming theme parks result in labor/service/operating hour cuts, deferred maintenance, canceled projects, and rising prices.

We need to know what TWDC defines as underperforming.

Not sure attendance for the sake of attendance is a good measurement. The proper measurement should be spending per guest, not how many guests happen to be in the park.

Hey, if TWDC defines success in their their theme parks like they do in their movies, the theme parks are HUGE successes!!

 

[TalkingHead]

I’d encourage all lamenting Disney box office as ‘yet another’ sign of their downfall to read the article linked below. It provides a much more balanced industry-wide view of the challenges most studios are having with box office this year.

The 2023 movie box office will need a strong second half after an inconsistent first six months

While the domestic box office has tallied $4.46 billion in sales through June 30, a nearly 20% increase over the same period in 2022, it still lags behind 2019.

www.cnbc.com

The real metric that nobody wants to talk about is tickets sold.

Blockbuster titles get released on premium large screens which are priced higher compared to a standard ticket. One ticket for the Dolby theater to see Indy 5 at Disney Springs AMC tonight costs $20.99. About $5-6 higher than a standard screen ticket at the same time.

There’s also the fact that some theater chain subscription services don’t require additional upcharge for members for Dolby and IMAX tickets (like AMC A-List) yet I believe the $20.99 ticket cost is factored into the box office numbers. I don’t know how anybody can look at the raw numbers and know what conclusions to draw. Only thing that’s clear is that the movie business isn’t as popular as it once was.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Historically, underperforming theme parks result in labor/service/operating hour cuts, deferred maintenance, canceled projects, and rising prices.

So then there is a no win situation. People will complain if the parks are packed and then turn around and complain if the parks aren't packed.

 

[el_super]

Wrong Coast but, how is DLR fairing with no F! this Summer?????

It's been slower getting into the summer, but still nothing all that unusual. Pre-pandemic/pre-value adjustments, summer was the slowest time of year for Disneyland. A lot of headliners have been averaging 30-45 minutes, which is still a little too long for me.

Negative word of month from the regulars over the nickel and diming, quality issues and reduced services likely has more of an impact long term than anything political but number one and two by a mile is always going to be cost and broader economic issues. Those two can flip between the top spot depending on the day.

What's happening in Florida, and specifically Orlando, may be somewhat of an anomaly. Most parks across the country were down, attendance wise, this weekend, and that seems to make sense in the broader context of a wider economic slow down. That said, continued success in California and with the Cruise Line would point to something else... something other than the Disney brand that is specific to Florida that is playing a bigger role.

Disney can't control the economy but pricing is all on them. Iger upped pricing regularly but Chapek went nuclear and drove the car off the cliff.

Chapek was only following Iger's plan. Iger outlaid his plan four years ago, and so far everything is still falling in line toward that plan.

They knew they were hitting the ceiling on attendance, and weren't going to be able to grow the business through attendance increases, so they set out to re-value the product and condition people to pay more for it. So far it's been working. DPEP made more money in 2022 than any year prior, even with attendance still off by 30%.

Economic conditions not withstanding, I'd expect them to keep with it. Even with attendance down right now, if revenue is still above 2019 levels, they will stick with it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because maybe for them they see it as worth the month. See here's the thing that I think really bothers people here. YOU don't get to decide how or what people value. Nor do you get to decide for someone else what the feel is greedy.

People here aren't so much as mad at Disney as they are mad that everyone doesn't feel like them

As I tell Chi all the time…personal opinions don’t matter…it’s mass/trend that Disney has always made profit off of in the parks.

They were built on a mass market model. You cannot down shift…the dynamics will never work.

Which is why they panicked with promotions Bob doesn’t believe in for months now…more come out all the time.

They’re in Crisis…just don’t expect them to admit it at a presser

 

[Smugpugmug]

Because maybe for them they see it as worth the month. See here's the thing that I think really bothers people here. YOU don't get to decide how or what people value. Nor do you get to decide for someone else what the feel is greedy.

People here aren't so much as mad at Disney as they are mad that everyone doesn't feel like them

I get that. I was mainly referring to people that defend Disney no matter what they do. They could charge $50 to use the bathroom and certain diehards would defend it. I see this a lot in Disney Facebook groups I'm in. And yes, I know it's Facebook but these are people that aren't as "in the know" as folks on here.

Personally I don't care if people still go to Disney or not. I still go and enjoy it but can recognize flaws.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So then there is a no win situation. People will complain if the parks are packed and then turn around and complain if the parks aren't packed.

You win by providing a solid product at a good value to as many people possible.

Something they’ve made no effort at for years and bob’s defenders have supported

Guess how it’s going?