Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Chi84]

I have never been able to wrap my head around the case for buying into DVC or any timeshare. I just don't see how it is ever a better option than to just book a hotel when and where I want to go on vacation.

I get owning a vacation home that you can go to whenever you want and rent out to offset the cost if you desire. That also builds equity and you can likely sell it at a profit if you don't want to have it anymore.

We bought 200 points in 2008 for around $18,000 and it’s worked out great for us. (The market crashed almost immediately after we bought lol.) We usually stay at SSR because we can walk to DS but have also stayed at Kidani and Riviera.

Too many reasons to go into as to why it works, but just as an example this year we are taking our family of 10 and staying in a 2BR and a studio at SSR on points. The full kitchen and in-room laundry facilities are great with our young grandchildren.

All our family vacations to WDW are DVC and I generally price them out to see what the rooms would have cost. We’ve done very well for our particular circumstances.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

So I’m going to be at MNSSHP in early October for one evening during what otherwise will be a HHN trip. I made all my dining reservations at Universal, and on a lark I thought why don’t I look to see if I can get a lunch reservation at a Monorail resort. Happened to get my ideal time (2:00) at my top choice Steakhouse 71. Approximately 1 month out, during the busy Halloween season.

IME, lunch is easy to find at the monorail resorts, except Chef Mickey's.

For tomorrow, party of 4, Steakhouse 71 has 6 lunch times avail.
Chef M's has 3
'Ohana has 1 (3:40)
GF Cafe has 8
WC Cafe has 8
The rest are not open for lunch.

In prior years though, I've found last minute availability even during Easter week at the monorail resorts, back when dining was booked 180 days out, and Crystal Palace was fully booked. Speaking of not fully booked though, C Palace has 11 times available for lunch tomorrow.

The spot that now houses Steakhouse 71 has long been a good option for walk-up dining. Disney's business/conference goers don't tend to book dining in advance, but they do want TS dining, so some places like Steakhouse 71 and GF Cafe were always - IMO- sorta meant to be places they could go to get a TS meal.

 

[Touchdown]

IME, lunch is easy to find at the monorail resorts, except Chef Mickey's.

For tomorrow, party of 4, Steakhouse 71 has 6 lunch times avail.
Chef M's has 3
'Ohana has 1 (3:40)
GF Cafe has 8
WC Cafe has 8
The rest are not open for lunch.

In prior years though, I've found last minute availability even during Easter week at the monorail resorts, back when dining was booked 180 days out, and Crystal Palace was fully booked. Speaking of not fully booked though, C Palace has 11 times available for lunch tomorrow.

The spot that now houses Steakhouse 71 has long been a good option for walk-up dining. Disney's business/conference goers don't tend to book dining in advance, but they do want TS dining, so some places like Steakhouse 71 and GF Cafe were always - IMO- sorta meant to be places they could go to get a TS meal.

I’ve attempted this multiple years, two years ago I wiffed on this while staying at a resort with the resort window, last year I was successful at a resort. S71 was hard to get through early 2023.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Interesting news story from CNBC:
Marie

 

[Disstevefan1]

Interesting news story from CNBC:
Marie

Answer: YES.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Answer: YES.

my first thought was... I bet that's a short video lol

 

[Miss Bella]

I have never been able to wrap my head around the case for buying into DVC or any timeshare. I just don't see how it is ever a better option than to just book a hotel when and where I want to go on vacation.

I get owning a vacation home that you can go to whenever you want and rent out to offset the cost if you desire. That also builds equity and you can likely sell it at a profit if you don't want to have it anymore.

I agree with you.
They totally lie comparing the cost to rack rate over so many years. Minus they covid revenge travel years of 2022 and 2023 there have always been discounts on deluxe resorts. Not to mention you can rent points from owners.

I can't imagine being tied down to certain vacation spot for years. In fairness though people that bought into DVC decades ago probably have made money and can rent out the points for a profit. It's just not for me.

 

[wdisney9000]

I agree with you.
They totally lie comparing the cost to rack rate over so many years. Minus they covid revenge travel years of 2022 and 2023 there have always been discounts on deluxe resorts. Not to mention you can rent points from owners.

I can't imagine being tied down to certain vacation spot for years. In fairness though people that bought into DVC decades ago probably have made money and can rent out the points for a profit. It's just not for me.

They inflated rack rates at Deluxe to such a higher price it made DVC a decent deal. Problem is then they raised DVC point cost as well (intentionally no doubt).

The DVC sales pitch used to be "60-70% off rack rates". Now the pitch is 40% off.

And the DVC rental market is no longer anywhere near the savings it was 5 years ago or more. And it's become flooded with people and companies renting points so getting reservations less than 7 months out is extremely difficult now. 5 years ago you could usually find avaiability within a 3 month window for the resort you wanted.

 

[Quietmouse]

What’s amazing that their attendance doesn’t decline at the parks in spite of the increased prices.

Either a lot of people are going into debt for the sake of making their kids happy or there is a lot of accumulated wealth since covid.

 

[JD80]

What’s amazing that their attendance doesn’t decline at the parks in spite of the increased prices.

Either a lot of people are going into debt for the sake of making their kids happy or there is a lot of accumulated wealth since covid.

I think its just like any other time. I don't think it's any different than 2019 or 2015 as far as people going to the parks (other than the top end number). I might not be remembering this correctly but ticket price increases have mostly matched inflation the last few years and hotels are pretty stable comparatively. The extra costs are LL and mostly table service meals.

 

[wannabeBelle]

I think its just like any other time. I don't think it's any different than 2019 or 2015 as far as people going to the parks (other than the top end number). I might not be remembering this correctly but ticket price increases have mostly matched inflation the last few years and hotels are pretty stable comparatively. The extra costs are LL and mostly table service meals.

Not according to the CNBC article for ticket prices. Marie

 

[Vacationeer]

I can’t say my experience with owning DVC saved money. It got me more for my money.

It’s possible that DVC is the reason why I have not tapped out on Disney trips. We bought resale then added on direct during last summer’s Grand Flo blowout sale. Renting cost about $400-$500/nt for our favorite WDW rooms, DVC costs us about $300-$400/nt for those (including TVM), and before that we did good discounts on moderates that would still cost us over $300/nt today. I’m more excited to stay Poly Lakeview $375/nt than I’d be to stay POR for $325/nt. If you’re a halfway smart cookie you can bang some really good deals out of DVC.

 

[FigmentFan82]

Anybody heard of any possible ticket promotions for the fall?

 

[JD80]

Not according to the CNBC article for ticket prices. Marie

Adjusted for inflation in 2023 dollars, tickets, on average have cost roughly in the $140 range for the last 5ish years?

Single day tickets I think. Not taking into account packages.

I did this quickly a year ago, but here's what I came up with:

Columns are Year - Cost - Inflation Multiplier to 2023 dollars - 2023 Cost

 

[BrianLo]

While DVC direct pricing has become less and less of a deal, the resale market has softened recently. A good smattering of resorts are significantly cheaper in a post inflationary sense than the days of yore people pine for. Especially with loaded contracts, you are breaking even on buying v. rentals after 5 years.

Particularly around Saratoga, Copper Creek, Bay Lake Tower, Aulani. A few others. Depending on your poison, the 60-70% discount still exists, just not direct.

 

[Ayla]

While DVC direct pricing has become less and less of a deal, the resale market has softened recently. A good smattering of resorts are significantly cheaper in a post inflationary sense than the days of yore people pine for. Especially with loaded contracts, you are breaking even on buying v. rentals after 5 years.

Particularly around Saratoga, Copper Creek, Bay Lake Tower, Aulani. A few others. Depending on your poison, the 60-70% discount still exists, just not direct.

You may spend less on resale, but Disney continues to restrict perks on resale, effectively tanking the market.

 

[BrianLo]

You may spend less on resale, but Disney continues to restrict perks on resale, effectively tanking the market.

Well yes… but the value comes from actually using the contracts for hotel rooms. The rest is mostly smoke and mirrors. So dropping prices are in fact better value to use against a hotel room, is it not?

I think you are trying to make an argument that it is not a reliable investment, which has nothing to do with its inherent promised discount v cash rates.

 

[Turtlekrawl]

I have never been able to wrap my head around the case for buying into DVC or any timeshare. I just don't see how it is ever a better option than to just book a hotel when and where I want to go on vacation.

I get owning a vacation home that you can go to whenever you want and rent out to offset the cost if you desire. That also builds equity and you can likely sell it at a profit if you don't want to have it anymore.

Can only speak to my own situation. Having a 3rd child pushed us out of most traditional hotel rooms. 12 years ago, there were still significant (though decreasing) perks to staying onsite, but options for a party of 5 were pretty limited. So we decided to buy BCV points on resale market at (I think) $62/point. Still a large investment, but I don’t regret the decision. Having separate bedrooms and a comfortable living space in that location has been great.

But to your point, paying current market rates for DVC points is very…very…very tough to justify.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Can only speak to my own situation. Having a 3rd child pushed us out of most traditional hotel rooms. 12 years ago, there were still significant (though decreasing) perks to staying onsite, but options for a party of 5 were pretty limited. So we decided to buy BCV points on resale market at (I think) $62/point. Still a large investment, but I don’t regret the decision. Having separate bedrooms and a comfortable living space in that location has been great.

But to your point, paying current market rates for DVC points is very…very…very tough to justify.

And I have the exact opposite problem. I usually travel with other friends or family. The only DVC property that has two regular beds (not pull out couches etc.) is Old Key West in the Studios with two queen beds. So if I want to have everyone I am traveling with having a regular bed, I 'd have to potentially go up into a two bedroom which would be kinda pricey for me. Also I dont fit the demographic as I will stay at any level of resort, from Value to Deluxe so the savings really doesnt work out for me. Marie

 

[Ayla]

Well yes… but the value comes from actually using the contracts for hotel rooms. The rest is mostly smoke and mirrors. So dropping prices are in fact better value to use against a hotel room, is it not?

I think you are trying to make an argument that it is not a reliable investment, which has nothing to do with its inherent promised discount v cash rates.

If you are strictly purchasing DVC for only the "discounted" rates (which really aren't, when you factor in yearly maintenance fees and the upfront cost), sure, go ahead. If you are purchasing to actually use the DVC perks you are entitled to, then you're screwed.