Chi84
Premium Member
I actually prefer the mods to the deluxes. Which deluxe ones have you stayed in and how recently? I’m surprised to hear people have that opinion of them.
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Is attendance really down at WDW this or…
- Thread starter coachb
- Start date
PREMiERdrum
Well-Known Member
As currently comprised, no.
However, there have been several proposals that tied Genie+ changes to priority access and situational inclusion for onsite guests.
We came very close to seeing a dip-of-the-toe into this earlier this year, and if the current trendline continues we still may.
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Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
That’s where all the variable pricing stuff someone earlier mentioned (maybe you?) really bites them. Sure, it may help prop up resort bookings, but you’ve now cannibalized your G+ revenue.
MagicHappens1971
Well-Known Member
I said this a couple weeks ago and people jumped down my throat. Genie+ ≠ FP+. We saw that resort guests cannibalized the “E-ticket” selections at the 60 day window for FP+…. capacity has not increased. There’s only a few options on how they could offer Genie+ to resort guests for free (imo) is to INCREASE the total amount of LLs issued daily which would mess up the system even further than it already is. Another option would be for them to set like 30% of LL capacity to resort guests. I don’t see that happening either. At the end of the day any inclusion of Genie+ for “free” will not be free, room rates will gradually go up as the resorts shell out the cost to the parks for this new amenity. Maybe an earlier pre-book window that’s exclusive for resort guests? Maybe one free LL/ daily per guest for resort guests? That’s as far as I can see it going. The parks are not built up enough to be offering this benefit as is. GR receives plenty of complaints about Genie+ now, take 30% (this is just my rough estimate) of capacity “offline” from regular *paying* guests? Complaints will skyrocket
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
I think it would be doable but would have to involve pre-set times. Or at the very least, time selection. After all, FastPass used to be available to everyone and still work, but only with the pre bookings. I think the thing with Genie is that it forces everyone into the first available spot, resulting in more inefficiency. By design, the first part of the day will fill up quickly, even if some people actually wanted evening times.
StarshipDisney
Well-Known Member
Without quoting anyone, let me just say that I have been greatly enjoying this thread recently. Disney has truly gone to crap, and I enjoy talking about it as Disney very much deserves this. I am a once Disney lover who now talks crap about Disney every day in casual conservation. I do my little best to help lower the brand.
Without getting too bold, below are my minimum demands to ever pay for a Disney resort again.
1) Genie+ MUST be bought before the trip and at least one LL reserved well in advance. If I cannot plan at all then I am not going back. This everyday cluster---- is not for us.
2) Reintroduce package delivery back to your room. I am an impulse buyer and not having this is stupidity beyond stupid. I would have bought more during our 2022 trip, but I am not interested in carrying it around all day or trying to fight the crowds and buy something on the way out like many others do. And, no, getting a locker is a half- measure at best. They need package delivery again just like Universal has.
I could easily go on and the list is long, but these are my biggest headaches.
Without getting too bold, below are my minimum demands to ever pay for a Disney resort again.
1) Genie+ MUST be bought before the trip and at least one LL reserved well in advance. If I cannot plan at all then I am not going back. This everyday cluster---- is not for us.
2) Reintroduce package delivery back to your room. I am an impulse buyer and not having this is stupidity beyond stupid. I would have bought more during our 2022 trip, but I am not interested in carrying it around all day or trying to fight the crowds and buy something on the way out like many others do. And, no, getting a locker is a half- measure at best. They need package delivery again just like Universal has.
I could easily go on and the list is long, but these are my biggest headaches.
I have 2 thoughts.
One is that it’s very sad you spend so much time thinking about something that makes you unhappy. Hopefully it doesn’t get to an unhealthy level. Because Disney is not a requirement to happiness.
2 not having deliveries back to resorts is weird and honestly make no sense at all.
LSLS
Well-Known Member
I always associate rooms that open to the outside instead of a hallway (so like the moderates and values) as lower end hotels/motels. I know multiple people in my company that outward facing doors would automatically eliminate that hotel from a business trip. So taking away all the extra perks from them, I can see the thought of them being way overpriced motels (I wouldn't compare directly to a Motel 6 personally, but I do get it).
PREMiERdrum
Well-Known Member
A not-insignificant factor in building Gran Destino, actually.
JD80
Well-Known Member
There hasn't been THAT much of a increase in rack rates since 2018 when you adjust for inflation. The problem is that area hotels haven't as much and the comparison is becoming more stark.
The larger issue that @PREMiERdrum has mentioned is that the value or perceived value of the offerings as significantly decreased which leads to the lower occupancy numbers.
I did like the comparison of trapping consumers on site to keep them closer to profit centers vs. hotels becoming profit centers. I'd love to see a deeper dive on this one day.
Again and again though, the major driver of the expense of a WDW vacation is almost solely on the cost of admission along with LL/ILL. When tickets far exceed inflation and the assumed cost of ILL/LL most customers will find other places to cut back on. Couple that with a decrease in resort benefits people will go elsewhere.
My tickets cost about $1000 more than they did 4 years ago for a family of 5. Not counting G+/ILL.
The larger issue that @PREMiERdrum has mentioned is that the value or perceived value of the offerings as significantly decreased which leads to the lower occupancy numbers.
I did like the comparison of trapping consumers on site to keep them closer to profit centers vs. hotels becoming profit centers. I'd love to see a deeper dive on this one day.
Again and again though, the major driver of the expense of a WDW vacation is almost solely on the cost of admission along with LL/ILL. When tickets far exceed inflation and the assumed cost of ILL/LL most customers will find other places to cut back on. Couple that with a decrease in resort benefits people will go elsewhere.
My tickets cost about $1000 more than they did 4 years ago for a family of 5. Not counting G+/ILL.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Disney loves these folks and hope the feel this way for their pleasure trips when they are spending their own money and have to get rooms for entire family.
LSLS
Well-Known Member
No, they don't. These are the types of people who will stay off site if it means having an interior hallway to their room. The types that have a lot of Hilton or Mariott points already. Ones who have a decent income, but aren't going to pay $700 to stay in a room.
Andrew25
Well-Known Member
A lot of people like to refer to Universal as Disney's main competition, which is true, but in the resort space there has been a lot work outside of the bubble on new resorts/upgrades & vacation homes.
Mentioned this in forums related to the water parks, but Volcano Bay isn't the biggest competitor for Disney's Water Parks... it's all of the outside resorts (Gaylord/Marriot/Westgate) working on adding water slide complexes/lazy rivers/etc., to their resort amenities. Why stay at a WDW resort when you can have a similar, or newly upgraded, resort room with a water park included? Not comparing a water slide complex to a fully-fledges water park, but with how expensive ticket prices have become... it's easy to skip a water park day in favor of your hotel's water park.
With transportation being the biggest, and only, significant unique offering... more and more people find it easier to consider booking outside the bubble. With that said, I don't think Magical Express will magically fix everything. Disney just needs to fix its value/pricing, which will be very difficult for them to maneuver around.
Mentioned this in forums related to the water parks, but Volcano Bay isn't the biggest competitor for Disney's Water Parks... it's all of the outside resorts (Gaylord/Marriot/Westgate) working on adding water slide complexes/lazy rivers/etc., to their resort amenities. Why stay at a WDW resort when you can have a similar, or newly upgraded, resort room with a water park included? Not comparing a water slide complex to a fully-fledges water park, but with how expensive ticket prices have become... it's easy to skip a water park day in favor of your hotel's water park.
With transportation being the biggest, and only, significant unique offering... more and more people find it easier to consider booking outside the bubble. With that said, I don't think Magical Express will magically fix everything. Disney just needs to fix its value/pricing, which will be very difficult for them to maneuver around.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
I was thinking these types of folks would book a deluxe Disney resort no matter what perks were lost over time.
PREMiERdrum
Well-Known Member
Orlando's ballooning inventory of vacation home rentals is viewed, internally, as a far greater threat to WDW's resort hotel portfolio than anything Universal is doing.
Andrew25
Well-Known Member
Yup - US 192 is a nightmare, and will sometimes back up onto World Drive and congest roads onto WDW property. They just started work on I4 from Sand Lake through Championsgate, so it'll become (hopefully) easier to stay offsite in a few years with less traffic headaches.
If Disney needs to "subsidize" hotel rates... just put a Starbucks, those things are pure money making machines.
PREMiERdrum
Well-Known Member
That they haven't put one at Crescent Lake, TTAC, and perhaps the All Star complex boggles my mind.
Aside from the obvious cashflow, it would absolutely be viewed as a serious amenity by a huge number of guests.
Not that long ago they had the Joffrey's truck that moved around to the more congested resort areas, in what I assumed was testing the waters for a standalone coffee concept for resort guests. Is it still out and about?
GhostHost1000
Premium Member
Today's resort guests at Disney don't feel as valued as they once were... which has caused many to look at staying off property... the problem with that is, honestly, there are a lot of nice properties in the area better than many of the Disney resorts.
Andrew25
Well-Known Member
Not putting a Starbucks in the Caribbean Beach Skyliner Station will always boggle my mind. I can understand their hesitancy of putting a Starbucks at each WDW resort (no need at the campgrounds for example), but the Universal onsite resorts all have them and are always busy, and it has no impact on the locations located in the parks/CityWalk.