Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Jrb1979]

I won't argue with you that there's still value. We took our daughter down for her 2nd Birthday last May, and despite not really riding any rides (we found out the day before we left that my wife was pregnant), it was the best trip I've ever taken down there, solely due to the joy my daughter experienced. It was priceless.

Now, the push back is that it costs more (even factoring in inflation) while getting less value. That's the "issue", at least for me. Doesn't mean that there isn't still value, it just costs a lot more to play now.

We LOVED the old FastPass+ system (even knowing it's faults), because it worked so well for us and how we like to vacation. We HATE the new Genie+/LL system, even though it doesn't really impact us, since the rides we could get on with my kids don't really require them. I liked the pre-planning and then having a somewhat set itinerary while also allowing for spontaneity. I'm an early bird, but when I'm at 5:30a, it's because I want to walk the grounds peacefully with my morning coffee after a morning toke to get the day started. It's super relaxing. I don't want to have to set a reminder to get on MDE at 6:58a to make sure I get my selections in for that day.

We'll still go for now, because it provides value for my family, but I can't help but feel a sense of guilt, because I subscribe to the principle of voting with my wallet, and man, would I love if all Disney fans had the discipline to just do that for a brief period of time, until all the perks that we loved returned. Sounds great in theory, but obviously doesn't work in practice, since us addicts, and those who think it's a right-of-passage, will still go.

That will all change when @Sirwalterraleigh is voted Supreme Leader though...

For my family as much as we like the parks, the value in the price of tickets isn't there anymore. Especially when you factor in currency exchange.

 

[GhostHost1000]

…you got that god damn right

I know who I’m voting for lol

 

[Chi84]

I won't argue with you that there's still value. We took our daughter down for her 2nd Birthday last May, and despite not really riding any rides (we found out the day before we left that my wife was pregnant), it was the best trip I've ever taken down there, solely due to the joy my daughter experienced. It was priceless.

Now, the push back is that it costs more (even factoring in inflation) while getting less value. That's the "issue", at least for me. Doesn't mean that there isn't still value, it just costs a lot more to play now.

We LOVED the old FastPass+ system (even knowing it's faults), because it worked so well for us and how we like to vacation. We HATE the new Genie+/LL system, even though it doesn't really impact us, since the rides we could get on with my kids don't really require them. I liked the pre-planning and then having a somewhat set itinerary while also allowing for spontaneity. I'm an early bird, but when I'm at 5:30a, it's because I want to walk the grounds peacefully with my morning coffee after a morning toke to get the day started. It's super relaxing. I don't want to have to set a reminder to get on MDE at 6:58a to make sure I get my selections in for that day.

We'll still go for now, because it provides value for my family, but I can't help but feel a sense of guilt, because I subscribe to the principle of voting with my wallet, and man, would I love if all Disney fans had the discipline to just do that for a brief period of time, until all the perks that we loved returned. Sounds great in theory, but obviously doesn't work in practice, since us addicts, and those who think it's a right-of-passage, will still go.

That will all change when @Sirwalterraleigh is voted Supreme Leader though...

We vacation much the same way as you, and I agree with a lot of what you said - other than the optimistic view that we guests could ever force a change back to the way things were by feeling guilty and being disciplined "for a brief period of time." I don't know what the current management would do if everyone stopped going at once, but I'm fairly sure bringing back free FP would not be it.

We decided against adding on to our DVC contract several years ago because we could already see the beginning of the downward spiral the company was sliding into with higher pricing leading to fewer guests leading to higher pricing etc.

Any significant change would have to come from a revamp at the top, and unfortunately, our current corporate culture does not favor the kind of people we need running Disney. Guests feeling guilty and canceling their individual vacations would result in nothing more than those particular guests forgoing their vacations and being replaced by the guilt free and undisciplined; that's why it won't work. Any true change has to come about as the result of natural market forces, which may or may not be happening now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I know who I’m voting for lol

No election…real power comes from the coup

Just ask Bob and “retired” Sue Arnold

 

[monothingie]

…you got that god damn right

Know your place.

 

[Lilofan]

I don't disagree with you that the value isn't there... but the market has "shifted" from the typical summer months to October-March now.

Parks haven't stopped being busy since the holidays. Same for Universal, it's been bizarre

I’d go in the winter compared to the hell like temps in the Orlando summer.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Any significant change would have to come from a revamp at the top, and unfortunately, our current corporate culture does not favor the kind of people we need running Disney. Guests feeling guilty and canceling their individual vacations would result in nothing more than those particular guests forgoing their vacations and being replaced by the guilt free and undisciplined; that's why it won't work. Any true change has to come about as the result of natural market forces, which may or may not be happening now.

I agree with what you have said, but those particular guests are forgoing a DISNEY vacation. They are looking elsewhere, as per the numbers for the cruise lines and from MCO are strong, Disney has said their numbers are down. That might not be good, as people may decide that they will go to Disney again but perhaps not as often, not for as long, staying offsite, dining offsite for main meals etc. and add in other destinations and experiences at other locations to see what works for them, with a better combination of price and value. Are there enough people doing this to matter? That is what this whole thread is about. Marie

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Know your place.

I’m a “straight shooter with upper management written all over me”…you can’t hold me down

 

[Chi84]

I agree with what you have said, but those particular guests are forgoing a DISNEY vacation. They are looking elsewhere, as per the numbers for the cruise lines and from MCO are strong, Disney has said their numbers are down. That might not be good, as people may decide that they will go to Disney again but perhaps not as often, not for as long, staying offsite, dining offsite for main meals etc. and add in other destinations and experiences at other locations to see what works for them, with a better combination of price and value. Are there enough people doing this to matter? That is what this whole thread is about. Marie

That's exactly what I meant by natural market forces.

 

[Lilofan]

I agree with what you have said, but those particular guests are forgoing a DISNEY vacation. They are looking elsewhere, as per the numbers for the cruise lines and from MCO are strong, Disney has said their numbers are down. That might not be good, as people may decide that they will go to Disney again but perhaps not as often, not for as long, staying offsite, dining offsite for main meals etc. and add in other destinations and experiences at other locations to see what works for them, with a better combination of price and value. Are there enough people doing this to matter? That is what this whole thread is about. Marie

One viewpoint I haven’t seen before is when walking to the MCO parking garage to get to Alamo I saw at least 100 well dressed middle age in a single file line some 2 together at the taxi stand. The cabs could not come fast enough.

 

[JoeCamel]

One viewpoint I haven’t seen before is when walking to the MCO parking garage to get to Alamo I saw at least 100 well dressed middle age in a single file line some 2 together at the taxi stand. The cabs could not come fast enough.

They can expense a cab but the company won't do rentals. Probably a planeload of conventioneers

 

[monothingie]

I agree with what you have said, but those particular guests are forgoing a DISNEY vacation. They are looking elsewhere, as per the numbers for the cruise lines and from MCO are strong, Disney has said their numbers are down. That might not be good, as people may decide that they will go to Disney again but perhaps not as often, not for as long, staying offsite, dining offsite for main meals etc. and add in other destinations and experiences at other locations to see what works for them, with a better combination of price and value. Are there enough people doing this to matter? That is what this whole thread is about. Marie

What do you know…

 

[DisneyNittany]

That's exactly what I meant by natural market forces.

While I agree with you as a free-market advocate, I'm also super cynical to "believe" natural market forces, since society as a whole is incredibly fiscally irresponsible.

I put WDW vacations on my credit card to earn the points, but pay it off immediately. So, I'm not going into any sort of debt when we take a vacation down there, but I'd guess that that puts me in the 90th percentile of WDW visitors (and that's probably being too liberal).

I know that's twisting hairs, but I also don't believe it to be sustainable, and therefore find it hard to call it market-driven (even though it technically is).

 

[wannabeBelle]

What do you know…

I hear some stuff....Marie

 

[monothingie]

I agree with what you have said, but those particular guests are forgoing a DISNEY vacation. They are looking elsewhere, as per the numbers for the cruise lines and from MCO are strong, Disney has said their numbers are down. That might not be good, as people may decide that they will go to Disney again but perhaps not as often, not for as long, staying offsite, dining offsite for main meals etc. and add in other destinations and experiences at other locations to see what works for them, with a better combination of price and value. Are there enough people doing this to matter? That is what this whole thread is about. Marie

Disney screwed themselves when they got rid of Magical Express. Maybe just a coincidence, but the second they took that away and gave guests a look outside the bubble, an impactful percentage of them decided to stay outside or discovered there was more to central Florida than just Disney.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Disney screwed themselves when they got rid of Magical Express. Maybe just a coincidence, but the second they took that away and gave guests a look outside the bubble, an impactful percentage of them decided to stay outside or discovered there was more to central Florida than just Disney.

Magical Express was a huge incentive. The value that the service added to the vacation package for Disney was a lot. Once you got to Orlando International, go to the Magical Express area and everything from there on out was taken care of. Simple, no hassles, no preplanning etc. I can speak to my own experience and thought it was a great service and I never had a problem with it at all. The biggest thing for the guest though was the ease factor. You didnt have to figure out any logistics of how you would get your family to the resort, how much it would cost, was it safe, etc. It was all done for you. It was a win for the resort too, in that it incentivized onsite stays and staying in the Disney Bubble. I'd love to see this return. Marie

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney screwed themselves when they got rid of Magical Express. Maybe just a coincidence, but the second they took that away and gave guests a look outside the bubble, an impactful percentage of them decided to stay outside or discovered there was more to central Florida than just Disney.

I’d say the paid fastpass around the same time amplified it quite a bit

But supposedly emperor sweater was “livid” they cancelled magical express…
…so get it back

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

While I agree with you as a free-market advocate, I'm also super cynical to "believe" natural market forces, since society as a whole is incredibly fiscally irresponsible.

I put WDW vacations on my credit card to earn the points, but pay it off immediately. So, I'm not going into any sort of debt when we take a vacation down there, but I'd guess that that puts me in the 90th percentile of WDW visitors (and that's probably being too liberal).

I know that's twisting hairs, but I also don't believe it to be sustainable, and therefore find it hard to call it market-driven (even though it technically is).

There’s a lot of cracks in their armor…driven by rigged “natural market forces”

 

[Disstevefan1]

I put WDW vacations on my credit card to earn the points, but pay it off immediately. So, I'm not going into any sort of debt when we take a vacation down there, but I'd guess that that puts me in the 90th percentile of WDW visitors (and that's probably being too liberal).

I have no data, but I doubt most folks are borrow to pay for their WDW vacations and only 10 percent actually pay for their vacations up front.

 

[Chi84]

While I agree with you as a free-market advocate, I'm also super cynical to "believe" natural market forces, since society as a whole is incredibly fiscally irresponsible.

I put WDW vacations on my credit card to earn the points, but pay it off immediately. So, I'm not going into any sort of debt when we take a vacation down there, but I'd guess that that puts me in the 90th percentile of WDW visitors (and that's probably being too liberal).

I know that's twisting hairs, but I also don't believe it to be sustainable, and therefore find it hard to call it market-driven (even though it technically is).

But you admit it technically is.