Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Andrew25]

Based on my wife’s client base trying to reserve certain weeks I would disagree. There are nights here and there but try getting a straight week somewhere and it’s getting almost impossible. It’s like every other summer at WDW.

I'd argue this is a result of staffing issues. Orlando hasn't fully recovered yet.

 

[The Mom]

This is a traditional slow time of year. Still, this May has been slower than what we saw in the 2016-2019 time period.

The summer hotel discounts, annual pass bonus days, and specially priced tickets suggest summer bookings are not meeting expectations.

As some have suggested, I think it's (mostly) the end of post COVID "revenge vacations". Those who deferred their Orlando vacations for 2 years have now (mostly) taken them. There's going to be a natural lull after that peak.

Also, we saw huge price increases over the last 2 years. Even with discounts, someone who last took a WDW vacation in (say) 2018 is in for some serious sticker shock.

Finally, and as Park Chairman Josh D'Amaro has suggested, recent changes making a WDW vacation overly complex to plan probably are turning off a few.

I took most of my WDW trips prior to 2010, so that is what I meant by "normal."

 

[Grumpy4196]

Interest rates have a lot to do with it. It's one thing to finance a vacation with a CC with a 9-14.9% interest rate as opposed to the current 24-28% rate.

 

[doctornick]

Interest rates have a lot to do with it. It's one thing to finance a vacation with a CC with a 9-14.9% interest rate as opposed to the current 24-28% rate.

Whenever I read comments like this, I’m always shocked to realize that people don’t pay off their credit cards every month. That’s such a ridiculous rate to pay. I couldn’t even tell you what rate is on any of my credit cards.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this tends to be a slower time of years. Others have said that Uni is also pretty slow recently

It’s “slower”…but not to the point of some of the recent ghost town days.

The economy has slowed quite a bit and folks are cutting back on discretionary spending. Vacations are the first thing to go. Next, streaming services and movie theatre outings.

Not a good time for companies like Disney.

Agreed

The economy may have slowed but people are traveling more than ever, and paying more. It’s up over the “ revenge year of travel” last year. I think people don’t care anymore and will travel when they feel like it and they are. Disney and universal will benefit even with the higher prices.. the rooms will be filled.

Travel Trends 2023: 49% Of Consumers Plan To Travel More In 2023

Americans were committed to traveling in 2022. The appeal to reconnect with loved ones, get a change of scenery and possibly even use vouchers or credits from trips canceled by the pandemic outweighed any exasperation from high prices or difficult transit experiences. Americans Plan To Travel More

www.forbes.com

Gonna say no to this one. There is something big going on here. Hasn’t been this slow in a decade plus

These people will hit their credit limit. It’s not sustainable.

It’s a house of cards.

I believe they have…the bankers are trying to divert attention away from this…so they make vague warnings about “slowing” instead of just saying what they see in their ledgers.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Interest rates have a lot to do with it. It's one thing to finance a vacation with a CC with a 9-14.9% interest rate as opposed to the current 24-28% rate.

It’s not that high if you have over a 605

…but definitely higher

Also: NEVER finance a vacation

 

[mysto]

Threads like this are selling the idea that May is slow.
People are reading it, and booking vacations for next May.
May 2024 WILL BE UNREASONABLY PACKED with xmas level crowds. May 2023 is in the rearview.

I really need to bookmark this post so I can gloat when there are a bunch of "why so crowded" posts next year. Welcome to the age of unlimited information none of which does you any good because everyone has it.

You really should just go at christmas, it might akshually be dead because the internet says it will be so crowded.

Shush, don't tell them about the xmas lull?

 

[Nubs70]

What economic downturn? unemployment is the lowest in history, Real Estate prices are ridiculous and things keep selling, people are spending, Construction projects are going on everywhere despite not being able to find enough labor... Maybe it is not the downturn but people are tired of going to Walt Construction World...lol

The economic downturn is actually loss of.purchasing power.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Threads like this are selling the idea that May is slow.
People are reading it, and booking vacations for next May.
May 2024 WILL BE UNREASONABLY PACKED with xmas level crowds. May 2023 is in the rearview.

I really need to bookmark this post so I can gloat when there are a bunch of "why so crowded" posts next year. Welcome to the age of unlimited information none of which does you any good because everyone has it.

You really should just go at christmas, it might akshually be dead because the internet says it will be so crowded.

Shush, don't tell them about the xmas lull?

Normal people that supply the volume for busy days at wdw are not reading/posting on sites such as this…they have no idea they exist

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The economic downturn is actually loss of.purchasing power.

Bingo. And this is the thing they just won’t admit.

I’ve watched/listened to 3 years of “woah, is me…” pundit talk about “inflation” and “waiting to see?” What the monthly figures are…like it’s somekind of mystical force of the universe…

…it’s just price gouging. Plain and simple. On every product across the board.
The reality is that it’s way more costly to live now than it was in 2019…and at somepoint the math doesn’t work?

That’s incredibly bad for non-essential products like trips to Disney parks.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

It’s “slower”…but not to the point of some of the recent ghost town days.

Agreed

Gonna say no to this one. There is something big going on here. Hasn’t been this slow in a decade plus

I believe they have…the bankers are trying to divert attention away from this…so they make vague warnings about “slowing” instead of just saying what they see in their ledgers.

You can say no to my post but you would be wrong buddy.

 

[Lilofan]

Bingo. And this is the thing they just won’t admit.

I’ve watched/listened to 3 years of “woah, is me…” pundit talk about “inflation” and “waiting to see?” What the monthly figures are…like it’s somekind of mystical force of the universe…

…it’s just price gouging. Plain and simple. On every product across the board.
The reality is that it’s way more costly to live now than it was in 2019…and at somepoint the math doesn’t work?

That’s incredibly bad for non-essential products like trips to Disney parks.

Non essential to me and my family is eating out on a regular basis. Stretch our dollars by eating in, and reward by going on vacation. Essential products like a reliable new car is not in my area. Families in my neighborhood with mortgages, kids in school , higher cost of living are keeping their cars longer and longer and forgo buying new cars with an occasional vacation. However some love to still eat out every weekend and a few times a week .

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Non essential to me and my family is eating out on a regular basis. Stretch our dollars by eating in, and reward by going on vacation. Essential products like a reliable new car is not in my area. Families in my neighborhood with mortgages, kids in school , higher cost of living are keeping their cars longer and longer and forgo buying new cars with an occasional vacation. However some love to still eat out every weekend and a few times a week .

Vacations are the first thing to go. Always. It’s the biggest expense that is the most painless to cut. You are “sacrificing” for something you never had.

Not to we Vanderbilt and Rockefellers on this travel obsessed board that view amusement parks as a “luxury enclaves”…it doesn’t matter.

But it’s not a luxury enclave…it’s a middle class spot designed to make profit off thousands of people buying low cost merch at high retail relative.

Oops…I gave away the secret…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You can say no to my post but you would be wrong buddy.

I tend to be “slightly” cynical and believe nothing until I see it…if you notice…

Something is up. This isn’t from a trip report…this is more discussion of financial peeps and experience travel pros that raised the flag last fall/winter…

They hit the wall. Iger is giving discounts. They ordered the apparatus about 5 years ago to end discounts…period…no discussion.

 

[Nubs70]

Bingo. And this is the thing they just won’t admit.

I’ve watched/listened to 3 years of “woah, is me…” pundit talk about “inflation” and “waiting to see?” What the monthly figures are…like it’s somekind of mystical force of the universe…

…it’s just price gouging. Plain and simple. On every product across the board.
The reality is that it’s way more costly to live now than it was in 2019…and at somepoint the math doesn’t work?

That’s incredibly bad for non-essential products like trips to Disney parks.

From a business perspective, it's not price gouging. The cost of raw materials have dramatically increased over the last 2 years. When we here the inflation reports of x%, that is a year over year percent increase. So if May 2021 is 8% and May 2022 is improved but at 6% the cumulative increae since May 2020 is 14%. Your $1in 2022 can now only purchase 86% of what it could in 2020.

Our "transitory" inflation is now exceeding 12 months in duration. The result is now compounding inflation. This inflation is not only found in consumer prices but also in producer raw materials. Some of my raw material have exceeded 60% increase which I must pass along to my customers who, in turn, pass unto the end consumer.

Inflation is a vile thing.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

From a business perspective, it's not price gouging. The cost of raw materials have dramatically increased over the last 2 years. When we here the inflation reports of x%, that is a year over year percent increase. So if May 2021 is 8% and May 2022 is improved but at 6% the cumulative increae since May 2020 is 14%. Your $1in 2022 can now only purchase 86% of what it could in 2020.

Our "transitory" inflation is now exceeding 12 months in duration. The result is now compounding inflation. This inflation is not only found in consumer prices but also in producer raw materials. Some of my raw material have exceeded 60% increase which I must pass along to my customers who, in turn, pass unto the end consumer.

Inflation is a vile thing.

Reject.

100% increases in 2 years at the grocery is not “logistics”. Check it.

CEOs were caught on mic saying “why not take it?” Over the last couple of years when “supply logistics” loosened.

Nope. Just the hunger games.

 

[SamusAranX]

From a business perspective, it's not price gouging. The cost of raw materials have dramatically increased over the last 2 years. When we here the inflation reports of x%, that is a year over year percent increase. So if May 2021 is 8% and May 2022 is improved but at 6% the cumulative increae since May 2020 is 14%. Your $1in 2022 can now only purchase 86% of what it could in 2020.

Our "transitory" inflation is now exceeding 12 months in duration. The result is now compounding inflation. This inflation is not only found in consumer prices but also in producer raw materials. Some of my raw material have exceeded 60% increase which I must pass along to my customers who, in turn, pass unto the end consumer.

Inflation is a vile thing.

We’re not talking about a mom and pop business here (because I know in yours and other small business cases, yes, you do have to pass costs on)

We’re talking about a major corporation (and others) here who didn’t have an attitude of “if you build it they will come”; they had an attitude of “no matter what we charge and what perks we have slashed they will still come”, and then used inflation and Covid as a scapegoat to keep raising prices and removing extras. Except they intended to do this all along. Companies were gleeful to do this. Because if you believe all of these large monoliths truly had to “pass costs on”; do you really believe they will be lowering prices back to prior levels when inflation finally slows; is magical express, free extra magic hours, and free fast pass coming back? Nuh uh. That’s what we call a fairy tale.

One hopes that in Disney’s case, they have finally hit the wall with discounts being back. At some point the consumer will not see the value of paying more every year for less; name one major NEW. (Not refurb) attraction set to open within the next few years. Disney had hubris by ignoring major investments regularly rather than “refits” to shift the capacity and park quality deck chairs.

I can’t remember the last time you could do WDW for 56 dollars per park but here we are. But I’m not gonna hold my breath that this is finally when WDW takes a major pivot for good

 

[Casper Gutman]

Feel nervous for the mouse?

Hahahahaha

Nope let it burn.

Whatever it takes for Iger to be removed.

Until then let it burn.

It is absolutely INSANE to believe that whoever comes after Iger will be significantly better. He is the result of SYSTEMIC issues. The forces that created him and his ilk are complex, but at an oversimplified level, as long as:

“A company’s ONLY obligation is to its stock holders.”

And

“Profits MUST improve quarter over quarter.”

Are religious doctrine (and I suspect you agree with both), Iger is just about a best case scenario. Eisner, for instance, came out of a very different financial, political, and cultural environment. You’re getting worse-Igers until a lot of other things change.

 

[JD80]

We’re not talking about a mom and pop business here (because I know in yours and other small business cases, yes, you do have to pass costs on)

We’re talking about a major corporation (and others) here who didn’t have an attitude of “if you build it they will come”; they had an attitude of “no matter what we charge and what perks we have slashed they will still come”, and then used inflation and Covid as a scapegoat to keep raising prices. Except they intended to do this all along. Companies were gleeful to do this. Because if you believe all of these large monoliths truly had to “pass costs on”; do you really believe they will be lowering prices back to prior levels when inflation finally slows? Nuh uh. That’s what we call a fairy tale.

One hopes that in Disney’s case, they have finally hit the wall with discounts being back. At some point the consumer will not see the value of paying more every year for less; name one major NEW. (Not refurb) attraction set to open within the next few years. Disney had hubris by ignoring major investments regularly rather than “refits” to shift the capacity and park quality deck chairs.

I can’t remember the last time you could do WDW for 56 dollars per park but here we are. But I’m not gonna hold my breath that this is finally when WDW takes a major pivot for good

Almost 20 years ago prices were below $60.

In 2005 $60 is worth $94 today. So with the deal going on right now, the price is the same as it used to be.

In 2005 the household median income for my state was $68k (108k adjusted for inflation). Today is $94k. Good bye vacation money.

But Disney had increased ticket priced by an additional 30% over that time not to mention hotel and food costs.

 

[SamusAranX]

Almost 20 years ago prices were below $60.

In 2005 $60 is worth $94 today. So with the deal going on right now, the price is the same as it used to be.

Which again is insane and makes me wonder if we finally have crossed the rubicon…at some point consumers were not gonna pay what Disney wanted while noticing stagnation and loss of perks.