Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

For a Disney virgin it is absolutely still "magical." Disney just does things that can blow your mind. If this is all you've ever known, it can be a great time, and with some research you can get the hang of G+, ILL's reasonably quickly, but it's nothing like it used to be.

The issue is that the repeat visitation has only risen over the last decade, and more and more people remember how it used to be. Change can be good, but the changes Disney's made over the last several years have just been devastating, while at the same time hiking prices way beyond inflation.

They are a victim of their own success in that in the 2010s they had:
1.)Free fast pass
2.)DME
3.)Free resort parking (which they brought back thankfully)
4.)Free magic bands
5.)Increased park hours (Back when you could stay at a park late, without an uncharge event)
6.)Park hopping whenever you wanted
7.)No Park Reservations
8.)More "reasonable" pricing (Wasn't cheap, but it was still more affordable)
9.)Evening EMH (and not just for Deluxe Guests)

If you were to pull someone from 2015 and drop them into a park now, they'd think they were dropped down the Tower of Terror into the Twilight Zone and think Disney was going bankrupt to cause them to make all the unfavorable changes.

They’ve tried to guarantee repeat visitation since 10/1/71…and it became the cornerstone of their entire strategy in the 80’s and 90’s

It costs less…the loyal fans advertise for them…
Smart

Now the “first time magical” people that they told the street and fool praetorians around here were “limitless” getting whacked $10,000 and constantly asked for add-ons aren’t really really getting the fuzzies. And a lot of other destinations have increased their appeal/value - especially in the last 10-15 years - and Disney parks aren’t as shiny/polished in comparison

 

[flynnibus]

Nobody is saying it's not hot. I'm sure it's playing a small factor in attendance. It's the main reason attendance is down. Most people book their Disney vacations 8 months to a year in advance. I doubt those people are all going to cancel due to the heat.

Yet people chastise iger for mentioning it as if ‘its always hot’ and are apparently ignorant of what has been happening in FL, new orleans, the sw etc. this is not just ‘its summer… duh’

You’ll find no one saying its the main reason impacting attendance its been said over and over its not a singular issue… yet people keep downplaying weather when a significant amount of wdw visitors are in fact short notice trips.

 

[flynnibus]

Discounts are up to 35-40% in some cases this year which hasn’t normally been the case

Ppl keep recycling this comment… yet forget to mention how targeted the over 30% discounts are.

Eta: plus disney was telling the market MONTHS ago outlook was soft.

 

[flynnibus]

While this could be playing a small factor into locals or those who wait to the last minute to book, I don’t think it’s the main factor at all.

Congrats… you are winning the argument only you are having then. No one is saying its the main factor

But while you laser focus on advance bookings… you ignore that if you have audience that doesn’t show… they impact crowds too even if they are not the biggest portion of the crowd.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yet people chastise iger for mentioning it as if ‘its always hot’ and are apparently ignorant of what has been happening in FL, new orleans, the sw etc. this is not just ‘its summer… duh’

You’ll find no one saying its the main reason impacting attendance its been said over and over its not a singular issue… yet people keep downplaying weather when a significant amount of wdw visitors are in fact short notice trips.

You’re trying to bury the lead suggesting it’s significant on advances bookings…which are only about 100% of all bookings…

Dvc and Florida residents will fill out the margins weeks or months in advance…but that’s the fringes

You know exactly how it works and what the “hints” it’s not a downturn in summer demand - whatever the factors - isn’t the problem. Like they wake up every morning and say “wonder who’s gonna show?”

They knew this last year. No doubt.

Heat is a very tiny nuisance in this “problem”

 

[GhostHost1000]

Congrats… you are winning the argument only you are having then. No one is saying its the main factor

But while you laser focus on advance bookings… you ignore that if you have audience that doesn’t show… they impact crowds too even if they are not the biggest portion of the crowd.

I’m not trying to win anything. Just stating facts. Some defend Disney in every way and blame everything except for Disney themselves

 

[JD80]

I’m not trying to win anything. Just stating facts. Some defend Disney in every way and blame everything except for Disney themselves

The only people that are doing this are in your head.

 

[flynnibus]

For people struggling… remember disney’s hotel capacity is relatively stable. Yet… somehow… some days end up being more busy than other periods where hotels are just as busy.

How is that possible?

And disney probably has the highest detailed customer profiles of anyone out there… you all wear freaking radio beacons to tell them where you are or are not for crying out loud.

You think iger and his team don’t know the difference between bookings and actual crowds? And he’s just making stuff up during a planned interview when the news is well established?

Some of you think way too much of yourselves.

 

[flynnibus]

I’m not trying to win anything. Just stating facts.

no we call your post a strawman argument

 

[Chi84]

I’m not trying to win anything. Just stating facts. Some defend Disney in every way and blame everything except for Disney themselves

But can’t we even talk about issues other than “Disney itself” without being accused of defending Disney? It’s possible that other factors are contributing even if they are relatively minor.

I kind of get it though. There’s no question that people are moving away from Disney and that Disney is the reason. For some it’s the prices; for others like me it’s loss of that all-inclusive feeling; some see a significant loss of quality in the parks. And for the record I have always blamed Disney for altering their offerings and not the guests for adjusting to them.

Still it seems almost to anger and upset some posters if people even mention the possibility of other factors.

 

[celluloid]

People are nuts if they think the majority of WDW's daily theme park guests come from onsite. That has never been the case. The hotel bookings is another sector of business from daily park attendance that has an intersection.

Fun fact for those who do not know. All of the WDW onsite hotels could be at full room capacity and if you took that crowd and distributed it evenly between the four theme parks, they would still not be at capacity.

 

[Jrb1979]

But can’t we even talk about issues other than “Disney itself” without being accused of defending Disney? It’s possible that other factors are contributing even if they are relatively minor.

I kind of get it though. There’s no question that people are moving away from Disney and that Disney is the reason. For some it’s the prices; for others like me it’s loss of that all-inclusive feeling; some see a significant loss of quality in the parks. And for the record I have always blamed Disney for altering their offerings and not the guests for adjusting to them.

Still it seems almost to anger and upset some posters if people even mention the possibility of other factors.

Yes all those things are factors. At the end of the day people are moving away from Disney and that's not good.

 

[Rimmit]

Yes all those things are factors. At the end of the day people are moving away from Disney and that's not good.

It’s good if we want to send Disney a message that we don’t like their unfavorable changes. Disney has gotten cocky and they need a course correction.

Free fast pass is never coming back. I’m not delusional, but some type of olive branch would be nice. I have never used DME but I know lots of people have and enjoyed it. Or maybe longer park hours so some nights people can stay late without upcharge events like they used to have.

The only way they are gonna do anything in the favor of the consumer at this point is to hit ‘em where it hurts, and that’s the checkbook.

 

[Splash4eva]

People are nuts if they think the majority of WDW's daily theme park guests come from onsite. That has never been the case. The hotel bookings is another sector of business from daily park attendance that has an intersection.

Fun fact for those who do not know. All of the WDW onsite hotels could be at full room capacity and if you took that crowd and distributed it evenly between the four theme parks, they would still not be at capacity.

Ive always wanted to know this and im
Not questioning you but can you provide actual facts/numbers that break down your claim?
Disney resort guests which include DVC/Swan/Dolphin vs Florida Locals vs Everyone else

 

[GhostHost1000]

For people struggling… remember disney’s hotel capacity is relatively stable. Yet… somehow… some days end up being more busy than other periods where hotels are just as busy.

How is that possible?

And disney probably has the highest detailed customer profiles of anyone out there… you all wear freaking radio beacons to tell them where you are or are not for crying out loud.

You think iger and his team don’t know the difference between bookings and actual crowds? And he’s just making stuff up during a planned interview when the news is well established?

Some of you think way too much of yourselves.

You think hotel capacity isn’t down as well? This was posted here the other day in case you missed it

Also you’re correct, Disney has all sorts of data on us. They just don’t use it, model and view it the right way, or make decisions based on it to improve things

 

[celluloid]

Ive always wanted to know this and im
Not questioning you but can you provide actual facts/numbers that break down your claim?
Disney resort guests which include DVC/Swan/Dolphin vs Florida Locals vs Everyone else

I don't have the exact numbers(they always fluctuate a bit as I will explain later) but I can see if I still have the DRC training information, which is where it comes from. It did include Swann and Dolphin but did not include DVC, as those are not booked by the Walt Disney Travel company(DRC)

There are far more hotels a healthy occupancy around 192(even though it looks like parts of it died, its better than it was ten years ago) and International Drive between Disney and Universal guests is thriving out the wahzoo and has been healthy for decades. There is a reason so many still survive. Between drivable distance and offsite guests, its definitely far more people not staying on WDW property.


The Parking lots, although some do drive their cars while staying onsite to the parks, can give you a great indication too. Even if two of every fifty cars came from a family or couple staying onsite. Way more drive from off property.


The easiest one is perhaps this. If the theme parks could be supported by just the Disney property hotels in general, then they would have made it a requirement to go.

The basic breakdown would be this. 30,000 hotel rooms is around where WDW is at. It is always flucating for various reasons such as rennovations, emergencies..etc..

take that number and times it by 4. The typical occupancy. Then divide it by 4 since there are four theme parks and you are back with the same number you multiplied the 30,000 by, which is 120,000 people.

30,000 people in each Walt Disney World Theme park would be busy, but not capacity. Let's add a few thousand people for good measure and the large parties that are staying five a room in suites.
Even if everyone went into those parks and stayed at the exact same time it would not hit capacity.

It is all hypothetical and extremely unlikely they could ever get them all full, but even if they magically could, the parks would still have room for day guests and offsite guests.

 

[flynnibus]

Fun fact for those who do not know. All of the WDW onsite hotels could be at full room capacity and if you took that crowd and distributed it evenly between the four theme parks, they would still not be at capacity.

They sure could save a ton on parking lots if they were the case

 

[flynnibus]

You think hotel capacity isn’t down as well?

I don't know why you bring that up... lower hotel capacity would also be a justifiable reason to say park attendance is down by constraints.

But beyond you using wrong words... I don't know what you are trying to say.

This was posted here the other day in case you missed it

View attachment 730358

Unprecedented? I'll point you to the word 'hyperbolic'. Do you need someone to post to you the historic trends of Summer to the thread so you can quote that too?

Also you’re correct, Disney has all sorts of data on us. They just don’t use it, model and view it the right way, or make decisions based on it to improve things

Yeah, it's amazing they haven't hired you yet... dumbfounding.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Yeah, it's amazing they haven't hired you yet... dumbfounding.

I’m guessing they called you first. Bummer.
Best of luck though and let us know when things improve

 

[willtravel]

The heat is definitely is/was causing minute to minute park attendance to drop. When there are extreme temperatures people tend to be in the parks less. They still have a ticket, they still checked in to the park, but they may be taking more mid day breaks, leaving earlier or going in later in the day.

Fall will pick up as usual I think, to what level is TBD.

As far as discounts, you're completely wrong. There is no "all the discounts". Here are discounts that touch from September forward comparing 2023 to 2019. Tell me where the extreme discounts are.

View attachment 730317

And here was 2019
View attachment 730318

For me, none of these discounts are attracting me. You mark up to mark down. Still a win win for them. They are still too damn expensive with discount. JMO