Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

She. But yes, that $266 rate for Portofino is showing up mid-week on several days. And since I mentioned Christmastime in my previous post. This is for Dec 11-13.

The kicker is one person does need an AP. Over the last year, UO has been aggressive with its pass increases, so by the time you factor in the additional cost of a Power Pass over a regular ticket, it's not *as* good of a deal as it used to be. Renewal prices, are discounted, so if you've had your pass for years, like me, then it's closer in cost. The fear from UO passholders is that the best deals are behind us. It comes down to how much you value the Express Pass.

What’s funny is there’s real blowback against the Florida parks…both big operators…

But they simply cannot stop trying new ways to Jack the revenues up on those willing to come.

The attendance pictures I get from the Disney parks is SHOCKING. There’s just no crowds there.

Can’t wait to hear new and elaborate spins as to why from corporate and it’s volunteer fandom wing (the praetorians)??

 

[Tha Realest]

One of our users sent in a video from Hollywood & Vine's breakfast service at 9:50 a.m. yesterday, showing the restaurant maybe half-full. According to the servers, it's been this way all summer.

Granted, Hollywood & Vine is not the highest-rated restaurant. And 9:50 is late for breakfast. But still.
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Were there expected thunderstorms?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

One of our users sent in a video from Hollywood & Vine's breakfast service at 9:50 a.m. yesterday, showing the restaurant maybe half-full. According to the servers, it's been this way all summer.

Granted, Hollywood & Vine is not the highest-rated restaurant. And 9:50 is late for breakfast. But still.
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Everything is overpriced and not very good…

And it was celebrated as they took it there for 15 years…every step of the way. We were the magic!


Interesting to see how old sweater tries to spin this one?

 

[Thepuma]

She. But yes, that $266 rate for Portofino is showing up mid-week on several days. And since I mentioned Christmastime in my previous post. This is for Dec 11-13.

The kicker is one person does need an AP. Over the last year, UO has been aggressive with its pass increases, so by the time you factor in the additional cost of a Power Pass over a regular ticket, it's not *as* good of a deal as it used to be. Renewal prices, are discounted, so if you've had your pass for years, like me, then it's closer in cost. The fear from UO passholders is that the best deals are behind us. It comes down to how much you value the Express Pass.

What percentage of people in the parks are annual pass holders or able to get those cheaper rates?

Or put it another way, what percentage of people are you frustrated at (overwhelming majority) because they are paying more than you for rooms?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Were there expected thunderstorms?

 

[hopemax]

Another tidbit, I am noticing. There are times I am doing a search on the Loews site and it's showing $400+ for Royal Pacific. BUT! If I click through, it updates to $264. It is showing $264 on the Universal site.

I don't know what that's about. But these are the types of things that people will investigate and hammer the site for WDW, and post for people to take advantage. Less so for UO.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Our server lamented their change in cancellation policy to 2hrs really killed their numbers.

is it that people are holding on to reservations and only cancelling last minute and then not enough time for other people who are looking for reservations to find it and book it? Can see not a lot of people on vacation at WDW are going to be undecided on dinner and then last minute say "hey, lets book Topolinos!"

 

[networkpro]

One of our users sent in a video from Hollywood & Vine's breakfast service at 9:50 a.m. yesterday, showing the restaurant maybe half-full. According to the servers, it's been this way all summer.

Granted, Hollywood & Vine is not the highest-rated restaurant. And 9:50 is late for breakfast. But still.
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It has had the reputation of being Hollywood and Vile for quite a while and when combined with only Disney Jr characters it draws a squealing clientele that is not conducive for a nice meal.

 

[Tha Realest]

It has had the reputation of being Hollywood and Vile for quite a while and when combined with only Disney Jr characters it draws a squealing clientele that is not conducive for a nice meal.

He offered the reputational caveat in the post. Clearly this is an unusual and ahistorical (as compared to recent years) experience there. But go off.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I gotta ask, why?

USO definitely has ebbed and flowed in quality with ill advised IP shoehorning. But IoA is a well-realized park and HP blazed the trail for the past 15+ years of immersive attractions

I recognize the quality from an engineering and artistic standpoint, I just don't enjoy it. I think big steel rollercoasters are ugly and only moderately fun. And I loathe Harry Potter and "Harry Potter people."

 

[hopemax]

What percentage of people in the parks are annual pass holders or able to get those cheaper rates?

Or put it another way, what percentage of people are you frustrated at (overwhelming majority) because they are paying more than you for rooms?

It's the people *here* on WDWMagic, I'm frustrated with. The people who through their experience of years of WDW value hunts (like DVC point rentals), and hours chatting about WDW, should know more about the process than the average guest, who then don't do more than a cursory search for UO.

 

[hopemax]

What’s funny is there’s real blowback against the Florida parks…both big operators…

But they simply cannot stop trying new ways to Jack the revenues up on those willing to come.

The attendance pictures I get from the Disney parks is SHOCKING. There’s just no crowds there.

Can’t wait to hear new and elaborate spins as to why from corporate and it’s volunteer fandom wing (the praetorians)??

In Universal's case, I suspect it might be more about transitioning to Epic. Get the price increases in now, so they don't bite so badly in 2025. I also find their "5 days for 2" promo so interesting, because as a West Coast kid, the core ticket for Disneyland in the 90s was the "5 days for the price of 2" promo. IMO, they are already trying to get people to think of UO in terms of 5 days and not 1-2. But can't usually find AP rates that are more than 2-3 days in a row, so it would be a hit to the cheaper vacation proposition.

 

[networkpro]

He offered the reputational caveat in the post. Clearly this is an unusual and ahistorical (as compared to recent years) experience there. But go off.

Yes. I did take note of that as well as patronized it in April because you can only eat so many Ronto wraps. Its a solid meh for breakfast staples as nothing stood out from being a step above a Mcdonalds'.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In Universal's case, I suspect it might be more about transitioning to Epic. Get the price increases in now, so they don't bite so badly in 2025. I also find their "5 days for 2" promo so interesting, because as a West Coast kid, the core ticket for Disneyland in the 90s was the "5 days for the price of 2" promo. IMO, they are already trying to get people to think of UO in terms of 5 days and not 1-2. But can't usually find AP rates that are more than 2-3 days in a row, so it would be a hit to the cheaper vacation proposition.

Oh totally agree…they HAVE a reason…Disney does not.

We did a buy 2, get 4 a few years back at universal and the problem there is they scramble your brain with all the 3D nonsense…we were done after 2 1/2

 

[lentesta]

It has had the reputation of being Hollywood and Vile for quite a while and when combined with only Disney Jr characters it draws a squealing clientele that is not conducive for a nice meal.

I have not heard this but will use it from now on. Thank you.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It has had the reputation of being Hollywood and Vile for quite a while and when combined with only Disney Jr characters it draws a squealing clientele that is not conducive for a nice meal.

But it fills up when there is anything resembling a solid crowd…

Looks like we can meet up and get a table right now:

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I have not heard this but will use it from now on. Thank you.

Hollywood and vine has a bad rep, Len…rightly so…but that isn’t it…all the others are open and available too

 

[JD80]

I just love how everyone connected to Disney blames every other possibility as to why the parks are quiet....They all Bury their heads in the sand to the REAL genuine reason why numbers are down...and it is ALL their own faults..They are completely in denial about the whole thing - its quite scary really.

They created the negativity around Disney and they are not addressing it, but instead making things far far worse with each and every decision they make.

Disney are a car crash of a company at the moment. Clearly with a board room full of yes men who will agree with whatever the top dog says. I get the feeling all they care about is their pay checks and not how to run a park properly.

See my bolding. I don't think anyone is doing this at all, at least on these boards. I think everyone acknowledges increased costs, decreased offerings/perks/whatever as the reason. I think what a lot of people are talking about other reasons it's down ON TOP of the main reason.

Lets use a very simple example here. Lets say the different between crowded 2019 and dead 2023 is 100 people. 90 people aren't coming back because of the above - too expensive, less perks, going elsewhere etc. This whole conversation is revolving around why are those other 10 people not showing up.

Some of the reasons are:

• Heat wave - locals/APs now coming to the parks or resort guests staying at the pool more/longer
• Taylor Swift might be 1 or 2 less people. Heh
• Other theme parks
• Whatever

The main issue is people like you who are so fed up with Disney that any time someone talks about other non-disney-controlled reasons people aren't going to the parks you immediately think they are not blaming Disney at all and call them dusters or idiots.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

See my bolding. I don't think anyone is doing this at all, at least on these boards. I think everyone acknowledges increased costs, decreased offerings/perks/whatever as the reason. I think what a lot of people are talking about other reasons it's down ON TOP of the main reason.

Lets use a very simple example here. Lets say the different between crowded 2019 and dead 2023 is 100 people. 90 people aren't coming back because of the above - too expensive, less perks, going elsewhere etc. This whole conversation is revolving around why are those other 10 people not showing up.

Some of the reasons are:

• Heat wave - locals/APs now coming to the parks or resort guests staying at the pool more/longer
• Taylor Swift might be 1 or 2 less people. Heh
• Other theme parks
• Whatever

The main issue is people like you who are so fed up with Disney that any time someone talks about other non-disney-controlled reasons people aren't going to the parks you immediately think they are not blaming Disney at all and call them dusters or idiots.

And I think for a lot of people it isn't any one thing. Sure, maybe for some they are just fed up with Disney and nothing else is contributing but I think for many it is the negativity around Disney and the parks and challenges of planning and then add in cost of everything is going up so less disposable income and people find alternative options for their (lower) available vacation dollars, etc, etc

So if everything was amazing with Disney right now I am sure some people would "find" the dollars to make the trip or still pick it over other options... But add in lack of draw or just less overall excitement/positive feelings and it is much, much easier to reallocate those dollars elsewhere

 

[lentesta]

For what it's worth, Space, BTMRR, Pirates, and Mansion were all down this morning. So no fear about low wait times today.