lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
What is the new direction?
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Is anyone actually excited about Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind or is it just me?
- Thread starter RebelScum514
- Start date
That is the main problem. There’s no balance anymore. It used to be IP and originality in equal measure.
Now Chapek is hell bent on synergy and damn anything else. And MK2.0 is exactly what’s coming.
Misdirection?
FullSailDan
Well-Known Member
I'm always curious as you're someone whose opinion on Epcot I really respect, what do you think a revitalized park should include? We do a lot of talking around here about what it shouldn't be. Play armchair engineer for a minute and pitch a project or two for fun
WDWFREAK53
Well-Known Member
Splitting up Future World to make each side feel "different" seems like a start.
You have the Nature on one side (Land/Sea/Air), Discovery on the other which is more of your "tech side" (Space/Play/Test Track), and Celebration in the middle which is the coming together of both sides...Imagination can be sparked by nature and built upon using technology. Spaceship Earth took our natural Earth and through technological advances, brought us to where we are today (Spaceship Earth's lengthy refurbishment and a possible Imag redo down the road may tie this together) along with the Festival Center, and the spine redo.
World Showcase still remains as is. You still have the same but with attractions added...
Not to mention, the flow of the pathways in the front of the park is much nicer.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I know what’s been announced, but what is the idea that is guiding it all?
WDWFREAK53
Well-Known Member
When it comes to Epcot (in any of it's forms), I don't think IP/Originality was ever equal with originality heavily outweighing IP integration. If anything, I see it more "equaled" out now (for better or worse in different situations) but we are seeing all IP added as a "catch-up" to bring it up to equal. (Now, when I say that, I'm not FOR complete IP integration at all and one of the things I love about the park is the originality but as long as the IP is integrated in a way that makes sense (like Rat), I see it as a net-positive for the park. Again, completely my current opinion and that may change once these projects are actually built.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
So playing down this path, what are the themes for the lands now. Drawing from Apple's concept of branding (which is Chapek's current love right now), your brand needs to be stated from top to bottom in a succinct statement. Everything fits into it. In other words, it's a theme.
I struggle with the new "themes". They are very forced and disjointed. Much like Tomorrowland become.
World Nature works pretty well.
World Celebration is amorphous so fine.
World Discovery. Now we have a problem. Is it about technology? Space, TT and Play could work. But now Guardians doesn't fit. Is it about how technology influences our creations? Could work for TT, Play and Guardians (though not with the current story). But, Space is now an issue.
World Showcase is even worse. Is it a romantic representation of cultures around the world. Not really any more. The headliner attractions are focused on Disney movie characters - not their representative cultures (and soon to be worse). So, is it about countries whose culture influenced beloved Disney movies? That could be cohesive, but you now have to redo all the pavilions to integrate it. And, the Festivals would no longer make sense. Let alone how that ties into the other "Worlds".
And what is Epcot's overall theme now?
EPCOT Center was about human achievement, as we look to our historic global cultures and future innovations. That was ambitious, and it had a huge future and global travel problem as the world caught up. I would say Epcot went more to inspiration. How, things in our real world inspire us all together. (A very "unified" approach - which I think the Millenium Celebration encapsulated quite nicely.) If you look at the new additions, they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I actually think Harmonious could easily fit that theme. And, there were ways to use the IP in that same manner. But, they are not. It's becoming a giant version of the current Tomorrowland mess we have. And it may very well age just as poorly.
Good storytelling shouldn't be that difficult IMHO.
WDWFREAK53
Well-Known Member
I don't know how you want me to answer more than I just did. Splitting Future World up into distinct "neighborhoods" and the middle being a celebration of both with the Festival Center at the connecting point of all 4 neighborhoods because the Festivals usually "celebrate" humankind with its arts, foods, holidays, etc...
*top of my head response being put on the spot whilst at work*I'm always curious as you're someone whose opinion on Epcot I really respect, what do you think a revitalized park should include? We do a lot of talking around here about what it shouldn't be. Play armchair engineer for a minute and pitch a project or two for fun
A park full of cutting edge D and E tickets using ride technology barely seen before.
Just as importantly, attractions that wouldn’t fit in the castle park. Or anywhere else.
All in an totally themed, fully cohesive and contemporary / near future beautifully landscaped setting.
Sound familiar?
Individual theme wise I wouldn’t be so presumptuous to suggest today’s crowd would be interested in oil shale and MPG. The park we originally knew certainly aimed for a cleverer and higher brow audience. But key themes of the planet and life could be as relevant today as they used to be. What made the original even more a revelation was the comparative lack of IP and synergy crossover. It was new. It was bold.
It was original. It was unique
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WDWFREAK53
Well-Known Member
The one you choose that doesn't fit into World Discovery is the one we have the least amount of info on as far as storyline goes.
Let's see...with World Showcase. I'm under the impression that you are very Anti-IP. Fact is, that's not going away. The best we can hope for is proper integration that works for it's respective pavilion. With the exception of Norway, we currently have that. (Cabelleros could be argued about as well...but hopefully we get that Coco overlay). I get the feeling that you would prefer to have the France pavilion be as it was...with no Ratatouille ride. That's fine and that's your opinion but at one point people were talking about how World Showcase was a glorified food court and now we get an attraction that will appeal to families that fits the theme of France and it's a problem as well. If we are going to nitpick the placement of thematic attractions, Ratatouille would be really low on the list resort-wide IMO.
Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor: Monsters in a land about about a fantastical future?
It's a Small World: Singing dolls celebrating unity around the World in Fantasyland (Ok, as I write this it does fit...sadly LOL)
Tomorrowland Speedway: Nothing futuristic about it at all.
Buzz Lightyear: He's a toy...granted a space toy...that's a pretty loose tie-in.
Haunted Mansion: What does the Haunted Mansion (aside from the building aesthetics) have to do with Liberty Square?
How about the thematical disaster which is Hollywood Studios? You have Star Tours not connected to Galaxy's Edge...a Muppet Studios attraction in a park that's not a Studio anymore...not to mention Indiana Jones which is a "movie-making" show. What is the actual theme of this park?
People complained about Pandora as well (and some still do), but the aesthetic execution was great (no matter your feelings about the actual attractions) and the flow from "Earth" to Pandora is flawless. Now that it's complete and open, people seem to really enjoy it and realize that it fits into the park pretty well.
I'm not saying you can't have opinions and not like something (or even not like the IDEA of something) but on the flipside, don't pick apart someone that has an optimistic opinion of it.
If you don't like characters in Epcot, that's perfectly acceptable (and trust me, I'd prefer it to be more like opening day as well, but I'm also not going to hate everything that happens because it's not exactly what I want or how I envision the park to be).
I choose to look at the brightside of what the future holds but hold dear to what the past gave me.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Celebrating human achievement is the dead idea. You’re doing exactly as Disney and trying to graft the image of EPCOT Center onto the “new direction”. Which is it? What does it mean that EPCOT Center is dead if Epcot’s new direct claims to be about the same ideas? It seems Epcot really won’t be about those ideas except in contrived naming of disjointed lands.
Bender123
Well-Known Member
I like this description...but I would add one thing. EPCOT Center was unique in that it had unique and great attractions that were geared toward the future and then dropped you from the ride into an environment that showed how the things you just witnessed were becoming reality.
Its not a small point that SE was made more real by seeing the world key stations and video communication. Imagination was made better by seeing how to apply imagination in acts and in the (creepy and terrifying drug fueled nightmare) movie. Transcenter made WoM seem more "real".
None of these were "rides" so much as fully fleshed out experiences.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
@WDWFREAK53 I appreciate your opinions, but your response actually highlights the issue and didn't answer my question. I actually think all of the things you raised were problematic. And I have always thought that, even as a kid. I think that's why I liked EPCOT Center so much because it was consistent.
I think your post makes clear my exact point. I don't like IPs in WS personally, but I get it. And, if they fit with the overall story, I would have an easier time dealing with it. But the RAT RIDE (emphasis added) is what I have the biggest problem with vs. Rattatouille being in France. Same with Frozen. The Stave church display was a great way to use IP to showcase the culture. These new attractions have zero to do with the country other than setting. Gran Fiesta is sort of in the middle. So, while I appreciate why you may think so, your understanding of my position isn't necessarily accurate.
The big difference here is that they are doing an overhaul, so they have the chance to fix it and drive some consistency. Instead, they are moving father away from it.. And, when they could have had their cake and eaten it too (creatively).
I think your post makes clear my exact point. I don't like IPs in WS personally, but I get it. And, if they fit with the overall story, I would have an easier time dealing with it. But the RAT RIDE (emphasis added) is what I have the biggest problem with vs. Rattatouille being in France. Same with Frozen. The Stave church display was a great way to use IP to showcase the culture. These new attractions have zero to do with the country other than setting. Gran Fiesta is sort of in the middle. So, while I appreciate why you may think so, your understanding of my position isn't necessarily accurate.
The big difference here is that they are doing an overhaul, so they have the chance to fix it and drive some consistency. Instead, they are moving father away from it.. And, when they could have had their cake and eaten it too (creatively).
FigmentFan82
Well-Known Member
I'm excited for this attraction. I like Guardians.
Crazydisneyfanluke
Well-Known Member
Disney doesn't know.
FigmentJedi
Well-Known Member
New England is just as full of ghost stories and supernatural lore as New Orleans is. I mean, you got Poe's Raven following you around in the Mansion, that giftshop retconned Leota into someone that escaped the Salem trials, and there's the Sleepy Hollow connection you find hints of in other parts of the land.
trainplane3
Well-Known Member
So much that.
Those were the reasons why my parents changed our trip plans on my first ever WDW trip. It was originally, MK, Epcot, MGM, MK. Part way into day two I forgot all about MK so they dropped the second MK day and replaced it with Epcot.
I could sit at home and watch movies and shows with Mickey (sure I couldn't ride SM, BTM, and HM but...) but I couldn't see:
- a underwater base with these weird elevators, a drone that would talk about the oceans, and a really short ride
- a ride with huge vehicles that had a funny lady and Bill freaking Nye THE science guy WITH dinosaurs
- a fun purple dragon with a really great song
- a boat ride that made plants interesting
- a fun show about the human body with an intense sim ride about going through the body
- a really neat ride that showed how people talked to each other through time and where things might go from here
- two insanely large buildings with technology I've never see or used before (this was 97, so right before the major downfall)
And all of this treated me like a big kid without needing Mickey or some other cartoon shoved in my face. I loved it.
Little Green Men
Well-Known Member
We dont how how guardians will fit but it sounds like its using time travel technology. Space could fit in the fact that its a man made shuttle