Interesting JHM article

[tazhughes]

I get the impression that the author is referring more to the SaveDisney.com and D-Troops APers, and if I'm correct I agree. It is sad to see every move and change attacked viciously before they are even finalized. How long was the thread about the balloons in the land? How much has been said about Nemo "taking over" the Living Seas?

I understand (and occasionally agree) that things are not always changed for the better, but sometimes there needs to be change. Sometimes things slip, considering how bad the economy tanked over the past 4 years it's amazing that so few things slipped through the cracks with Disney. I think for some the real magic of the parks is lost and you keep complaining thinking that will bring it back. Yeah I miss Horizons and Dreamfinder too, but that does not detract from the wonderful feeling I get walking through the turnstiles and neither does seeing a little bad show during tough economic times, because I know that it will be fixed (maybe not as fast) and the company still has the right ideals.

Maybe everybody needs to relax and enjoy all of the magic that is in the parks and let go of the magic that has been lost.

 

[KumbaRider]

I can see where the article is coming from. As an AP holder myself, I have noticed such actions that can truly get annoying.

It's especially interesting to note that the article was written by an IMAGINEER, which makes me think that they do notice these things and are sick of people complaining everyday about minor details that will most likely be fixed. Although I feel the article doesn't express the actions of all AP holders, it does have some truth to it. Just keep an open mind.

 

[Shrike]

I relaize that many of you are not aware that there are Disney parks outside of Florida , but I assure you that they do in fact exist. At one in particular, an AP costs $329 I believe. There are probably a million children within a 30min bus ride. Quality, professional after school child care in that area costs easily three times that every month. See a potential problem?

And then there are the legions of AP holding teenagers...


DLR AP's do need more restrictions, and unrestricted AP's should probably cost a couple of grand at least.

 

[lamarvenoy]

A typical JHM article....negative. JHM is the Disney internet equivalent to the National Inquirer. Let's not forget Jim himself was led out of the park for leading TOURS on disney property. The guy was LEADING TOURS of paying customers AT DISNEY. I think he is more of an ecomomical problem for Disney then anything, he constantly goes on rants and makes his own negative publicity about Disney. I spend alot of money at Disney every year,thousands of dollars and I think my buisness is appreciated,if I didn't I wouldn't spend the money. Does alot of revenue come from ticket sales? Sure, between my wife and I that's nearly $500...for just tickets.I stay on property 15-25 days per year,I EAT at Disney,I buy their toys and other stuff. I don't appreciate grouping "passholders" together and then bashing us for the conduct of a few members.Those people would be like that anywhere,just go to your customer service department at Wal-mart and you'll here the same type of people.Disney is not REMOVING benefits its actually ADDING them, look at a passholders ticket sleave and you'll see tons of great benefits and they knocked 3 weeks off of the summer blackout so as usual JHM IS WRONG.

JHM = Yellow Journalism

 

[brkgnews]

Due to popular demand ... here's the article I submitted.-------------
The Passholder's Advocate
The typical Annual Passholder faces a dilemma as he or she steps off the monorail and into the Magic Kingdom. The dilemma is not, as has been previously alleged, whether to look first for peeling paint or to concentrate on burned-out light bulbs. Instead, the dilemma is the same quandary faced by virtually any day guest. What should I do first? Do I head to Tomorrowland, or start in Adventureland? Should I try to get lunch reservations, or just hit up a quick service location? In short, a vast majority of Annual Passholders are simply that; Passholders. They are not arrogant, king-of-the-mountain types that feel that Cast Members should roll out the red carpet and bend to their every whim, lest they be listed on any manner of websites. Most are instead merely people who have a true love of the Disney experience, and choose to spend all of their vacation time immersed in it.

I am an annual passholder at Walt Disney World. I am nearing the end of my first full year as a passholder, and am preparing to renew for another term. It has been argued that I am costing the resort money. I find that to be a weak argument at best. Let us look at several factors that I believe illustrate the value that passholders provide the resort. It has been said that many passholders purchase a pass just for the sake of "getting a deal." True, to an extent. There comes a point when it is much cheaper to purchase an annual pass than buy day tickets. However, that break-even point is changing. At the time I purchased my pass, the break-even point was roughly that on the eighth visit, the pass had paid for itself. With the advent of the Magic Your Way ticketing system's "play longer and save" discounts, the new break-even point has grown to about 12 days. This alone will weed out some bargain-hunters who are looking for a cheap way out on a week-long trip.

Further, the annual pass is a way of ensuring guest allegiance to the resort. If I have an annual pass to Disney, I'll have a hard time convincing myself that I should spend a week at another destination. Instead, I'll realize that at least the ticket portion of another Disney vacation would already be paid for. At the very least, I'd be "wasting" already-paid admission if I went somewhere else. This is the exact same concept that fueled Magic Your Way in the first place. Snag them with a deal that rewards longer stays, and they'll be less likely to go to another theme park. If we keep them on our property, we can keep their money on property, too.

A single purchase of Magic Your Way tickets can keep guests on Disney property for up to twelve days. A single annual pass can keep a guest on Disney property for as long as they can visit in a single year. In the case of Walt Disney World, I believe it would be a very rare instance for someone to be able to use more than four weeks of park admission on an annual pass. I'm sure it does happen, but I believe it is rare. Most probably spend two weeks there. I'm well aware that situations are different at Disneyland, with a higher percentage of locals visiting the park on weekends, but I believe the same basic tenets apply.

Furthermore, I feel that Annual Passholders more than make up for the lost ticket revenue in their purchases and lodging decisions. The fact that I receive annual pass discounts on lodging allows me to stay on Disney property during my vacation. Yes, the company does make less than it would selling the room at full rate. However, they are certainly making more than they would on an empty room during non-peak seasons (which is when annual pass discounts are in effect). If it were not for the discount, I would be at an off-site hotel, and the room would quite possibly sit empty, actually costing the company money. That same night, I would go grab a late-night snack at a nearby convenience store, rather than at the resort's snack bar. I would also not have to pass by racks and racks of souvenirs, possibly buying a few things. More and more of my vacation budget would be slipping out of the mouse's pocketbook.

The money I save on admission also allows me to be more foolish with my in-park purchases. I can justify spending $50 each on three our four nice shirts because "I already saved so much by not buying tickets." If I see something at one of the art galleries, I can buy it because of the money I saved on admission. I can justify eating a nice meal at a full-service restaurant instead of just wolfing down another hot dog. I can even justify paying $5 for 30c worth of popcorn. Because... I'm saving money.

I might also add that many passholders also serve as unofficial advertising agencies and travel agents for Disney. I'm always telling my friends and coworkers about the good times to be had at the parks, and many come to me seeking advice on how they can take a Disney trip on their own. I am more than happy to help them plan a trip that meets their wishes... not one that meets mine. In the process, I've just sent another $1000 or so to Disney.

Passholders are often unfairly typecast as being sticklers for detail and impossible to please. True -- some are -- but not all. (I might also add that this could also be said of the Great Imagineer himself, but let's not delve into that). It is most certainly true that Passholders notice change more readily than some other guests. Think back to your hometown. If I drove through it, I might say, "oh, what pretty homes." You, on the other hand, might say, "It just doesn't look the same since Bob painted his house yellow." I wouldn't know about Bob's previous house color because I'm not a repeat visitor. Maybe Bob's house did look better when it was red; I don't know because I didn't see it both ways. You still certainly have the right to tell me what you think. And yes, you even have a right to tell Bob what you think. And Bob has the right to either: accept your suggestion and repaint it; or to say that the other neighbors didn't like the red; or to say that it is his decision alone since he lives there. Bob's house color affects how his neighbors see him -- but in the end, it is Bob's decision what color to paint it. Such is the case in the theme park. It is every guest's right to state their opinion. If that were not the case, then City Hall would be boarded up. It is Disney's right to reject any and all suggestions.

I might also argue that many passholders are more easily pleased than the average day guest. For instance, if I cannot get into a certain restaurant or if a certain attraction is closed, I know that I can visit it next time. The "once-in-a-lifetime" guest will not have that option, and will likely be much more upset about missing the experience. In many cases, these are things that the company cannot control. They cannot control the fact that the ride simply broke down (often due to a guest-triggered E-stop). They cannot control the fact that hundreds of people are all trying to get the same dinner reservation at that same restaurant. Passholder complaints, on the other hand, generally run along two veins -- lack of maintenance, and change in a policy or attraction. These are things that the company actually can control. Which is more logical to complain about -- something that cannot be changed or something that can? I might also add that in an area where "show" is such an integral part of the experience, even the smallest thing can affect it. But the smallest thing is not always so easily noticed -- so the more eyes, the better. Any time I have ever made a "complaint," it has been discreetly made to a person who "needs to know." If something is broken inside an attraction and is ruining the illusion, I quietly let the CM at the exit platform know. I don't blurt it out to everyone in the ride vehicle, and I don't go running off to city hall. It is more logical to quickly notify the people who need to know, rather than let the mistake run and run while trying to make a scene. If you have a fly in your soup, you tell the waiter. It is only after you have flies in two or three bowls of soup that you call in the Health Department. Many of the "nit-pick" Disney websites profile bad show that has been allowed to persist despite multiple notifications to those who need to know.

Then there is the notion that passholders are there to ruin the fun for everyone. I find that quite the opposite is true. I find that a vast majority of passholders are happy to provide advice when asked, but are not there to force their opinion on anyone. When I am in the parks, I will often stop to help someone who is trying to figure out how to get to Space Mountain. I will NOT force them to listen to a lecture on how forced perspective makes the mountain seem even taller than it is. I will gladly share the history of certain attractions, but ONLY if the person has shown a genuine interest. I will not stand there merely as someone trying to tear down the magic just to prove that I am more "Disneyfied" than others.

I'm certain that there are some passholders out there who feel that they are better than day guests. I am not one of them. And none of the other passholders I have met are, either. Most are, like me, people who have a true love of the Disney experience, and a solid belief in the ideals that the company projects. I do not feel superior to any other person in the park. I am instead actually humbled that I have been blessed with a way that I can, on a meager salary, still spend as much time as possible in my favorite vacation spot. There is no difference in a guest who buys a three-day ticket and a guest who buys a twelve-day ticket. So why do we perceive a difference among guests with a twelve-day ticket and those with an annual pass, which is for many just a fourteen-day ticket?

 

[dxwwf3]

Let me say that I totally, 100% agree with Grizz's first post in this thread and brkgnews' great post above mine.

 

[dxwwf3]

"I'm an Annual Passholder, and I don't like Stitch's Great Escape, it should be done any with."

But did regular day guests have the right to say "That Alien ride scared my little kid. You should do away with it. Maybe put something with Stitch in there so MY little kid won't get scared. Everything at Disney World is supposed to be for kids isn't it"?

The feeling I get from a certain group of people on here is his that day guests are always right and that AP'ers are always wrong. I don't see why one group gets the right to complain about some things and another group shouldn't have the right to complain.

 

[mousermerf]

*sigh*

AP's at DL are evil. It's the truth. They're rotten yuckey people. WDW's Passholders are different - only a few nut jobs, to be expected. DL however has an excess of them. People who listen to radios to hear about parade dispatch delays and ride shutdowns obsessively (Adrienne Vincent Pheonix) and who look for any chance to smear Disney that they can (Mouseplanet, Mouseplanet, Mouseplanet!).

 

[wdwishes2005]

imho d-troops is a good thing, it helps disney to ''notice'' the bad show.

 

[brkgnews]

I don't see why one group gets the right to complain about some things and another group shouldn't have the right to complain.

My point exactly. Everyone is a customer, and thus has the right to let the management know about something they feel isn't right.

 

[Shrike]

My point exactly. Everyone is a customer, and thus has the right to let the management know about something they feel isn't right.

Again, most of you are missing the real point. The article, though it misses the mark signifigantly, is addressing Disneyland.

DLR AP's need a serious review, and have for the better part of two decades. You folks from New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Georgia, etc. probably have zero idea of the dynamics of that "Other" North American Disney park, but as an AP holder at both, please let me assure you that what you see in Florida is very different in California.

 

[mousermerf]

True true.

See post #48. DL AP = crazy (typically)

And they pay less than a hundred bucks for it, versus the 400-500 here.

 

[brkgnews]

They've posted the rebuttals...

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1583

Instead of one big article, they picked excerpts from several of them (including mine )

 

[lamarvenoy]

Like I said he's a good example of yellow journalism, after all that makes twice this week I hopped on his site.I'm a sucker. I feel like I just watched FOX news :lookaroun

 

[PlaneJane]

Just look at stupidguesttricks.com and you will see tons of CM's bad mouthing the AP's. They just plain hate them
Here is just one of the posts:

Annual Passholders and their families
<HR color=#666d75 SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->This is what happend to me today at a shop on Main Street...

Guest: I'm gonna get that Mickey mantle clock right over there.

Me: OK. I'll be right back let me get one boxed up for you. (I walk to get the box.)

Guest: Oh shoot! I don't have my annual pass with me, my husband has it...I'll be right back.

Me: That's ok, I'll have it here waiting for you.

Guest's hot-headed son: Can't you just look up her name on the computer or something?

Me: (Looking at the son perplexed) We dont have computers to look up annual passholders. Plus I need to physically see the ID to give out the discount. :bang:

The son: What? You don't trust us? Whatever happened to the honor system??

Guest: (towards son) Shut up and go wait outside.

Son: (towards mom) They (CM's) are not allowed to say "no" to guests.

Me: NO you can't have a discount until I see your annual pass. (Towards the son with a smile)

Guest: Stop making a scene and go outside.

Both of them leave.

The best part about it was that the mom came back with her annual pass but without her son. She apologized for the "stupidity" of her son and told me sometimes he just doesnt know when to shut up. :lol:
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[AEfx]

The author of the rant failed to make a critical distinction - that of WDW passholders versus Disneyland passholders. Although I believe he mentioned Disneyland specificly once, he spoke about (and the title refered to) AP holders at "Disney parks". The demographic is going to be completely different; AP holders at Disneyland are more likely to be the "evil locals" than those at WDW.

I'd love to see some hard numbers on this, but I would bet that WDW passholders are the ones more likely to pay for logding and the like than DL passholders.

The "article" was simply just another reach at JHM for self-created drama. Every few weeks they try to stir some pot (like that laughable story about "Lost" that was completely debunked they used to try to get another famous site's attention) and keep the name infamous in the Disney Internet cannon. JHM is a joke to most - I mean, how many series do they start that never get finished? The "I promise - really for real - that this Star Tours story will be done and finished within one week" thing was just hilarious - did anyone actually think he'd finish something he started?

A trashy, desperate rant at a trashy, desperate site...seems like business as usual to me.

AEfx

 

[DisneyBride94]

As a woman with both a journalism degree and an MBA (which I don't get to utilize much these days as I've been a SAHM for nearly 3 years now) what I find most lacking in this "report" is any basis in fact or figures.

Just how much money, if any, is Disney loosing on Annual Passholders? Where is the financial analysis? Where is the research and figures on how much money AP holders bring into the company each year? How many AP families has he tracked to get a picture of their visiting and spending patterns while in the park?

After reading Disney Wars myself I realize that the company has realized huge increases in revenue by raising gate prices over the past decade. And that is their right. Like anything else...the Disney experience is subject to the laws of supply and demand. With park attendance up at both American parks, and new pricing that seems more favorable to the non-passholder, Disney is experimenting with new pricing strategies to see where they'll net out.

At present we are not AP holders. After carefully doing a cost-analysis for our upcoming trip, we decided it was less expensive for us to jump onboard the MYW bandwagon, pay rack rate for our room, and take advantage of WDW's free dining plan promotion geared to filling the parks during hurricane season. In the past we've booked room only reservations using AP discount codes, we've paid top dollar for the PAP because we so enjoy the water parks, and we are only able to utilize our passes for two visits--carefully timed so that our second trip ends around the time the passes expire.

We usually spend a boatload of money on dining in the parks. We always stay on property, and we rarely leave. We generally drop in the neighborhood of $4,800 each year between hotel accommodations, park admissions, dining, souveneirs and incidentals. (This doesn't include airfare) This year we know we'll be saving the $90 a day that the dining plan would've cost, and frankly we normally spend about $50 more a day on dining then the plan would cost to purchase--and that is trying to make budget conscious decisions when ordering off the menus. My analysis showed that savings would be greater with the free meal plan than we would have realized with an AP room discount.

Annual Passholders really don't get the advantages they once received. Yet many continue to purchase them. Even though we don't take advantage of the entrance to the parks as much as some passholders do, we have found that they were still a decent value--and on top of that we liked being passholders and showing what we see as a loyalty to the company.

Die hard Disney fans like us are consumers of the Disney brand even at home. I look around my home and see the Disney curtains, rug, wall hooks, comforter and sheets on my son's bed--we even bought king-sized sheets to make matching bedding for my baby's crib! My daughter's bedroom features a Princess quilt. I have a Mickey Mouse waffle maker. We have Disney videos galore. I'm a frequent shopper at Disney Direct (formery the Disney Store online). We've got Disney toys and puzzles. We have Disney clothing in our wardrobes. I really have no idea what we spend on Disney licensed merchandise throughout the year--but it would certainly be easy enough to track.

Anyhow...spending habits aside, I DO expect my Disney vacations to be magical. Yes, I have complained to management when my young children and I have been awakaned twice a night for two nights in succession by rowdy guests and then a later, related altercation between profane hotel guests and hotel security guards. My request for a room re-assignment was cheerfully granted, and I received a credit for our two rooms for those two nights of disturbed sleep. An ifrequent visitor to the parks might have been offput by such a bad experience--but as regular Disney patrons, we knew it to be the exception rather than the norm.

For us, every time we visit Disney World is like the first time. Now that we have children of our own, seeing the park through their eyes is a very satisfying experience for us. We spend far more time in awe of everything than we do critiquing the things that need improvements.

I'm all for progress, and I'm all for getting rid of the Tikki room (sorry for the fans of that attraction--I've hated it since I was a young child). I don't like that we've all been lumped together as one class of people. The writer is obviously drawing from his own personal feeligns and experiences and not from any research or fact-based information.

 

[wannabeBelle]

well put Disney Bride!!!!! I like to think that I fall into the catagory that most of the people on this board say they are as well. I Am an AP holder who goes 5- 6 times a year. I dont usually see the paint chipping , but I will cheerfully help people trying to find stuff or soothe a child's fear of a ride as we wait on line together. I dont try to do a whole day itinerary ad hoc ever for people I dont know, nor am I looking for the bad show. Why on Earth would I want to spoil the Magic for myself??!!?? This is why I bought my AP in the first place!!!!!!!! Belle

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Just look at stupidguesttricks.com and you will see tons of CM's bad mouthing the AP's. They just plain hate them
Here is just one of the posts:

Annual Passholders and their families
<HR color=#666d75 SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->This is what happend to me today at a shop on Main Street...

Guest: I'm gonna get that Mickey mantle clock right over there.

Me: OK. I'll be right back let me get one boxed up for you. (I walk to get the box.)

Guest: Oh shoot! I don't have my annual pass with me, my husband has it...I'll be right back.

Me: That's ok, I'll have it here waiting for you.

Guest's hot-headed son: Can't you just look up her name on the computer or something?

Me: (Looking at the son perplexed) We dont have computers to look up annual passholders. Plus I need to physically see the ID to give out the discount. :bang:

The son: What? You don't trust us? Whatever happened to the honor system??

Guest: (towards son) Shut up and go wait outside.

Son: (towards mom) They (CM's) are not allowed to say "no" to guests.

Me: NO you can't have a discount until I see your annual pass. (Towards the son with a smile)

Guest: Stop making a scene and go outside.

Both of them leave.

The best part about it was that the mom came back with her annual pass but without her son. She apologized for the "stupidity" of her son and told me sometimes he just doesnt know when to shut up. :lol:
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Interesting quote, but if anything is disproves your argument. In fact the APer (the mother) was VERY polite and understanding. This was an example of a spoiled bratty kid, which is a wholly different topic. If all APers were like this woman, there would be no discussion.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Like I said he's a good example of yellow journalism, after all that makes twice this week I hopped on his site.I'm a sucker. I feel like I just watched FOX news :lookaroun

While I sure won't disagree with much of what JH is criticized for, I do appreciate the references they used in the rebuttal article. Those pieces presented a very different view and were not preceeded with any biased remarks.