Iger and Chapek Livid With Lucasfilm

[UNCgolf]

After TFA, Rey was pretty well received. The only character the consensus thought to be underwhelming was Phasma. People only started turning on Rey in TLJ, partially/primarily because she had no genetic connection to anyone, and subsequently in ROS when revisionist history made everything a mess.

Actually, the entire film was pretty well received. Yes, there were a couple of disgruntled fans, but they were in such a minority. TFA has gained a much worse reputation since the release of TLJ and ROS because of how fans perceive the entire trilogy.

There were definitely complaints about her being a Mary Sue after Force Awakens -- I mentioned it in my earlier posts, but you can find articles from the end of 2015 and 2016 (i.e. well before last Jedi) arguing that she isn't one as a direct response to the criticism.

The genetic connection complaint was crazy. That was one of the only reasons her character was interesting. Force Awakens was already a lazy rehash; making her directly connected to the earlier movies by being related to one of the legacy characters was just about the worst possible thing to do from a storytelling standpoint (so of course that's what they did).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh, but boy, did they go on and on about Rey.

I don't remember that. I remember TFA being insanely popular and Rey being insanely popular. It wasn't until after TLJ that I noticed a major change.

It was a straight up reboot from “nuance man”...

I think Rey could have maybe had potential...but there was no way to know...so the safe route was mostly not to judge.

Count me in that category.

In the end...they really had no clue. The weird ren/Rey relationship became the “defining” characteristic. And while not all bad...does it really exceed far beyond Portman and christiensen?

That’s a sad question to even have to ponder.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Rey actually being a nobody, with no special lineage, or powers, but still being a major force (pun intended) for good and a great part of the Resistance actually would have been interesting.

But that doesn't sell toys like a girl with magic powers. Just ask Anna of Arendelle

 

[Ravenclaw78]

True. What always got me about those complaints is that they ignored the same aspects about Luke. I mean, the kid flew T-16's on Tatooine and had no formal training, but he's given the keys to a shiny new X-Wing and on his first actual space flight (which was also his first military engagement) just happens to be helped by the Force so well he single handedly blows up the Empire's most potent weapon and heavily guarded secret with one shot while more experienced pilots die all around him. Then he spends, what, a week? With Yoda and is able to handle himself against Vader in Bespin after never really even sparring with someone with the weapon or getting training in any of the forms of lightsaber combat.

Just saying.....Rey might be a Mary Sue, but lord knows, she isn't the first.

Q: What do you call a male Mary Sue?
A: The Protagonist.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Q: What do you call a male Mary Sue?
A: The Protagonist.

Pretty sure that's not always true.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There were definitely complaints about her being a Mary Sue after Force Awakens -- I mentioned it in my earlier posts, but you can find articles from the end of 2015 and 2016 (i.e. well before last Jedi) arguing that she isn't one as a direct response to the criticism.

The genetic connection complaint was crazy. That was one of the only reasons her character was interesting. Force Awakens was already a lazy rehash; making her directly connected to the earlier movies by being related to one of the legacy characters was just about the worst possible thing to do from a storytelling standpoint (so of course they went right ahead and did it).

I can’t even go on about 8 or 9...not that I want to...

All the moratorium should be on 7. Straight up reboot...offered nothing new.

Not the worst strategy...but after the prequels you had better had it hashed out. There was a lot of discontentment that would limit profits moving forward if you did it half arsed.

We can debate the results...but it’s not a complicated debate.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Pretty sure that's not always true.

It’s common...but you don’t hedge with the character up front. They did.

You establish the strong character and then take it towards self doubt and/or moral dilemma.

I can think of many where it worked.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

Rey actually being a nobody, with no special lineage, or powers, but still being a major force (pun intended) for good and a great part of the Resistance actually would have been interesting.

I mean, it wouldn't have been anything new. Let's not forget Anakin was also a nobody that came from a desert planet. In fact, almost every other jedi in the franchise didn't have any special lineage aside from Luke, Leia, and Ben Solo.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I mean, it wouldn't have been anything new. Let's not forget Anakin was also a nobody that came from a desert planet. In fact, almost every other jedi in the franchise didn't have any special lineage aside from Luke, Leia, and Ben Solo.

Rey would not have been a Jedi or have force powers in my suggestion.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I mean, it wouldn't have been anything new. Let's not forget Anakin was also a nobody that came from a desert planet. In fact, almost every other jedi in the franchise didn't have any special lineage aside from Luke, Leia, and Ben Solo.

Anakin was created through the force by Darth Plagueis.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Anakin was created through the force by Darth Plagueis.

Yeah...but that prequel/EU stuff wasn’t the way they went...and I can’t say that was the wrong decision now in retrospect

 

[DarkMetroid567]

And while not all bad...does it really exceed far beyond Portman and christiensen?

yes

1000x yes

even the sequel haters say it's the best part of the trilogy and Anakin and Padme have poor on-screen chemistry

 

[doctornick]

The genetic connection complaint was crazy. That was one of the only reasons her character was interesting. Force Awakens was already a lazy rehash; making her directly connected to the earlier movies by being related to one of the legacy characters was just about the worst possible thing to do from a storytelling standpoint (so of course that's what they did).

Yep. Making her "nobody" in TLJ was the right move IMHO and I was ready to leap off my chair in the movie and cheer when that was said. I thought it was the exact right call for the franchise and the message of "a Jedi can come from anywhere" in TLJ was great. Of course, I personally though the whole Luke/Rey/Kylo half of the TLJ was outstanding, but it was unfortunate that the other half of the movie was boring and annoying.

And then RoS comes and retcons basically the good stuff from the previous films and makes a mess of everything. Sigh.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yes

1000x yes

even the sequel haters say it's the best part of the trilogy and Anakin and Padme have poor on-screen chemistry

Ehhh...it started weird, ended weird...meant nothing really.

I’d let that one percolate for awhile longer

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yep. Making her "nobody" in TLJ was the right move IMHO and I was ready to leap off my chair in the movie and cheer when that was said. I thought it was the exact right call for the franchise and the message of "a Jedi can come from anywhere" in TLJ was great. Of course, I personally though the whole Luke/Rey/Kylo half of the TLJ was outstanding, but it was unfortunate that the other half of the movie was boring and annoying.

And then RoS comes and retcons basically the good stuff from the previous films and makes a mess of everything. Sigh.

There was a clear downtown in the serious based on the events in that movie...

So in a”majority rules” world...it must have failed

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Ehhh...it started weird, ended weird...meant nothing really.

I’d let that one percolate for awhile longer

Whether it's good or not good is definitely up for debate. I just concretely believe that it's better than what the prequels attempted.

Anakin and Padme's relationship is straight-up discomforting.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Whether it's good or not good is definitely up for debate. I just concretely believe that it's better than what the prequels attempted.

Anakin and Padme's relationship is straight-up discomforting.

Oh I can see that...no argument there...

I think they both kinda sucked. Just implausible and a bad interaction due to miscast and/or bad writing

 

[PizzaPlanet]

Anakin was created through the force by Darth Plagueis.

I'm pretty sure that's not cannon. And even so, you still have Obi-wan, Mace Windu, Ahsoka, etc. All great force users that don't have famous parents.

Sure, Rey didn't have to come from anywhere to be interesting, but the concept wouldn't have been anything we haven't seen before.

 

[asianway]

Yep. Making her "nobody" in TLJ was the right move IMHO and I was ready to leap off my chair in the movie and cheer when that was said. I thought it was the exact right call for the franchise and the message of "a Jedi can come from anywhere" in TLJ was great. Of course, I personally though the whole Luke/Rey/Kylo half of the TLJ was outstanding, but it was unfortunate that the other half of the movie was boring and annoying.

And then RoS comes and retcons basically the good stuff from the previous films and makes a mess of everything. Sigh.

The best part of ROS was the SJW rage that followed

 

[EagleScout610]

I had no problems with Rey. Only the Rian “you’re a nobody” part but JJ Retconned that

three words "the chosen one"

verse...

"nobody"

When I saw RoS in theaters someone next to me muttered "Pick a plot and stick with it. Is she a nobody or the *****ing Queen of England??" Definately made the experience better