If the WDWMagic Forums existed in the 80s, what would folks be saying?

[Goofyernmost]

However, the 1980s were a pretty great time and WDW was as awesome as ever.

What's changed is Disney management's treatment of WDW, not our treatment.

Bill Sullivan and Bob Mathieson (the last of WDW's Old Guard) were forced out by Eisner in 1994. Both men believed in the old WDW where show came before anything else. It's as good of a year as any to pick as the start of the decline.

WDW is worse because today's Disney management treats WDW like an assembly line to be optimized, not like an experience to be enjoyed.

All that there was in the beginning of the 80's was magic kingdom. In the fall of 82 EPCOT center was added brand new and sparkling. When Walt said that "in Florida we have the blessing of size" he got it wrong. Size is the exact reason of the decline along with other things. It was a curse, not a blessing.

 

[Goofyernmost]

However, the 1980s were a pretty great time and WDW was as awesome as ever.

What's changed is Disney management's treatment of WDW, not our treatment.

Bill Sullivan and Bob Mathieson (the last of WDW's Old Guard) were forced out by Eisner in 1994. Both men believed in the old WDW where show came before anything else. It's as good of a year as any to pick as the start of the decline.

WDW is worse because today's Disney management treats WDW like an assembly line to be optimized, not like an experience to be enjoyed.

Sadly, most of us on the board right now that have been around awhile, were calling for Eisner to be thrown out. I guess we have to be careful what we wish for don't we?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't know what to say. You are not responding to anything I say, only what you think you read between the lines. What historical record? I only said, that people notice or don't notice and then react according to where they were at the time, mentally. I never even said that there weren't more things to notice now then 30 or 40 years ago. All I'm saying is that there are reasons and they are not all sinister. And that we are more likely to notice small things negatively now, because of our mental set as opposed to then. That is my opinion, like it or not.

There are articles and reports from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s praising Disney for their meticulous attention to every aspect of their operation. So there have always been people looking at the small details and noticing. If you don't care to notice that is fine, but then you cannot tell us little has changed at Disney because you have just told us you would not know. You cannot both notice and not notice.

 

[James122]

When Walt said that "in Florida we have the blessing of size" he got it wrong. Size is the exact reason of the decline along with other things. It was a curse, not a blessing.

In all fairness, Walt never intended for his Florida land to be exclusively used as a "Vacation Kingdom Of The World", as the resort section with the Magic Kingdom was originally only one part of Disney World. I think when he was talking about the blessing of size, he was talking about how now they had enough room to build pretty much anything they wanted, whether it was an industrial park, an airport, or a city of the future.

It's certainly true now that one could argue that WDW's massive size has become a liability as they seem unable (or unwilling) to properly maintain all the parks and facilities that they currently have.

 

[luv]

I have not read all the responses, but I would probably ask, "how do you keep your hair big with all this humidity?"

If you remember the 80s, you know that we didn't call it "big hair" then. It was just our hair. And the best answer then, as now, was the Aussie hairspray.

Those Aussie people make one hair spray that is like shellac and if you apply enough, it will hold even the wimpiest of hair in place through coasters, wind, whatever you can throw at it. Even rain will only mat it down, but will generally not make it lose it's direction (though once it is wet and matted, you have bigger problems as your head is now just a pile of flat, glued gunk and must be washed a couple times - good luck pulling a brush through that mess.)

The 80s were a great time, IMO. Good hair, good make-up, clothes and music. IMO.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There are articles and reports from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s praising Disney for their meticulous attention to every aspect of their operation. So there have always been people looking at the small details and noticing. If you don't care to notice that is fine, but then you cannot tell us little has changed at Disney because you have just told us you would not know. You cannot both notice and not notice.

Again I never said that nothing has changed, I know things have changed. What I have said is because of my temperament, life's experience I, repeat I, don't notice them as much as others and what I do notice I do not care about. It's just a matter of numbers. If you have 10 rides and on average 1 will break down per day then you have a 10% chance of seeing any 1 problem and you might not even see that. If you have 120 rides then that 10% will probably hold and there will be 12 rides with problems during that day. You will notice that a lot more just because of volume. Add to that time and wear and that percentage will naturally increase regardless of preventive maintenance. And you know what...I noticed problems more in the 90's then I do now. The reason, they were obviously bad and did effect the experience. Walk down Main Street and be hit with at rancid smell of garbage. Open a rancid packet of Ketchup, you will notice. A number of small AA's on Tom Sawyer Island were not working at all. I have never seen them not working since. Although I will admit that I'm not always sure what should be working and what shouldn't at this point. You folks are lucky to have total recall or have taken notes, whatever.

I went to Disneyland in 2005. That's 2005 the 50th anniversary of Disneyland. A big deal! I saw broken steps leading up to the train station. I saw a gigantic hole in the outside wall structure of Small World. I saw metal queue stanchions going into a ride I don't even remember, what I do remember is that they were rusty. Not just a spot but all of it. I noticed that because I had heard from people on random boards how pristine Disneyland was. It was not. WDW has a lot of problems, that I will agree with but overall maintenance, in my opinion, is still pretty good. Maybe not as fast as it once was, but it usually is taken care of. That is one of the reasons that I feel that the Yeti is a much more serious situation then any of you correct by magic fans think.

You can play on my words all you want. I have seen your posts and I know you are smart enough to understand that things are not black and white. They have varying degrees of gray and also it might help to understand figures of speech as well.

I've heard many of you talk about a light bulb being out along the roof edges on Main Street and that two weeks later you went back and it was still out. I call bull! However, if for some reason those people were so obsessed with light bulbs that they made notes of exactly which bulb out of thousands was out then it is time to order a new life.. the old one isn't working any longer.

 

[GoofGoof]

However, the 1980s were a pretty great time and WDW was as awesome as ever.

What's changed is Disney management's treatment of WDW, not our treatment.

Bill Sullivan and Bob Mathieson (the last of WDW's Old Guard) were forced out by Eisner in 1994. Both men believed in the old WDW where show came before anything else. It's as good of a year as any to pick as the start of the decline.

WDW is worse because today's Disney management treats WDW like an assembly line to be optimized, not like an experience to be enjoyed.

This may be too deep or off topic for this discussion, but I think it all started with employee stock options becoming more and more popular in the 80s into the 90s. CEOs and management in general at a lot of large corporations became so focused on the stock performance and less focused on running their business. The short term thinking we see today is a symptom of this.

 

[Sans Souci]

I have not read all the responses, but I would probably ask, "how do you keep your hair big with all this humidity?"

Easy. It was a combination of:

Armed with only a brush, a hair dryer and a curling iron, I could get bangs that could reach the stratosphere and withstand an F4 tornado.

 

[Minnie1976]

No, I don't recall it being like that back then. The mega corporation we know today as The Walt Disney Company simply didn't exist. Up through the mid-1980s, WDW was pretty inexpensive while the quality and cleanliness just blew us away. And the CMs seemed like they were straight from The Stepford Wives (the original, not the remake).

EPCOT was more forward looking than backwards thinking. There wasn't the same obsession with costumed characters that there is today. Meet-and-greets were almost non-existent. (At least, I never went to them.) To me, Figment was part of the innovation that EPCOT was supposed to represent. I just recall thinking Figment seemed too childish for the rest of EPCOT.

It was a period between Disney's original classics (perhaps ending with Mary Poppins in 1964) and Disney's new classics (starting with The Little Mermaid in 1989). Growing up, I got stuck with Herbie movies. Mickey Mouse definitely was not cool.

But WDW was cool. For the kids in my neighborhood, it was the dream vacation.

I recall things changing after The Little Mermaid. Suddenly, anything Disney was appealing to my neices and nephews. After a few hit movies, people started to take their younger children to WDW. The kiddie patrol slowly started taking over what once was a place for families with their junior and senior high school students.

P.S. I thought I should mention that I remember strollers being almost non-existent back then.

If I remember correctly, when Epcot Center opened Mickey Mouse and the Disney characters weren't going to be part of that park.

 

[Phil12]

You had the same sort of "expert" and minion relationship in the 80's as happens today on fan forums. Back in the 80's they were called bulletin boards.

 

[doctornick]

The only thing I can think what folks by saying on the WDWmagic Forums back in the 1980's, was how rushed Disney MGM Studios was and complaining about the layout of the park.

What did the park have at opening? There was the backlot tour that was very long (I think it was ~3-4 hours) involving the walking part on Streets of America and the old Residential Street plus the tram and going on the catwalks above the soundstages. They also had a seperate (I think) tour of the working animation studio.

Otherwise, I can only think of the Great Movie Ride as the only ride, plus the Indy stunt show, Superstar Television, and the monster sound show.

 

[Mickey_777]

In the 80's I would have been like dang, the Mickey plush is FUGLY...looks nothing like him.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

What did the park have at opening? There was the backlot tour that was very long (I think it was ~3-4 hours) involving the walking part on Streets of America and the old Residential Street plus the tram and going on the catwalks above the soundstages. They also had a seperate (I think) tour of the working animation studio.

Otherwise, I can only think of the Great Movie Ride as the only ride, plus the Indy stunt show, Superstar Television, and the monster sound show.

Indy Stunt Show wasn't open at Grand Opening. Indy Stunt Show opened in August of 1989 and Star Tours in mid December of 1991. From May to August of 1989, DHS only had Backlot Tour, Great Movie Ride, Monster Sound show, and tour of the working Animation Studio.

 

[jdmdisney99]

Indy Stunt Show wasn't open at Grand Opening. Indy Stunt Show opened in August of 1989 and Star Tours in mid December of 1991. From May to August of 1989, DHS only had Backlot Tour, Great Movie Ride, Monster Sound show, and tour of the working Animation Studio.

Star Tours was in '89. But still, shows how little it had, but was still like a full day when you took the full studio tour.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Indy Stunt Show wasn't open at Grand Opening. Indy Stunt Show opened in August of 1989 and Star Tours in mid December of 1991. From May to August of 1989, DHS only had Backlot Tour, Great Movie Ride, Monster Sound show, and tour of the working Animation Studio.

Star Tours was in '89. But still, shows how little it had, but was still like a full day when you took the full studio tour.

Having lived it and having participated in what (in 1989) constituted the Internet, there were a lot of people who felt ripped off by the opening of Disney-MGM Studios in the spring of 1989.

By 1990, after both Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular and Star Tours opened, pretty much all had been forgiven.

Both were incredibly popular IPs at the time and went a long way towards healing the wound that had been inflicted by the original opening of Disney-MGM earlier in 1989.

I didn't make it make it to Disney-MGM Studios until the spring of 1990 and recall really liking the park. But I'm a sucker for 1940s Americana, America's "Greatest Generation".

My memory is foggy from what happened all those years ago, but I recall people (at least among those who posted) disliking Eisner after the price increases of 1985 & 1986, and genuinely hating him after the opening of Disney-MGM Studios in early 1989.

Hey, what can I say? Even in the 1989, WDW fans were demanding.

Things were quelled in 1990 and, with the opening of Tower of Terror in 1994, we online were describing Eisner as the greatest CEO ever.

Seriously, Tower of Terror blew us away. To this day, it's still my favorite "new" WDW attraction.

Don't feel too bad if you missed it. Expedition Everest, with a working Yeti, was almost as good. If you were among the few who saw a working Yeti, consider yourself lucky. It's the last exceptional attraction built at WDW.

Today, the "B Mode" Yeti pains me every time I ride Expedition Everest. So much wasted potential.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

Star Tours was in '89. But still, shows how little it had, but was still like a full day when you took the full studio tour.

I admit to mistyping since I Actually checked out the date of the official opening online before I typed December of 1991 instead of Mid December of 1989.

The thing is you can't call Star Wars was a Grand opening attraction for Disney MGM Studios. Disney MGM Studios grand opening was on May 1st, 1989. The official opening of Star Tours was on December 15th, 1989. That helped Disney MGM Studios out for Christmas of 1989, but Disney MGM Studios was hurting before the official opening of Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular! of August 25th, 1989 and Star Tours on December 15th, 1989 despite having the full Studio Tour.

I am fully aware of the Full Studio Tour and the time it takes based on my first trip at WDW in July or August of 1991 that my Mom won from a drawing at a local radio station. My Parents, My younger brother and I took took the Tour and it took up a lot of the day.

Disney MGM Studios was a full day for us in 1991 since we did all the attractions and including the Backlot Tour. The fact is without the backlot Tour, it wouldn't have taken us a full Day despite eating at the Brown Derby. At the time I first went to Disney MGM Studio's, Muppet Vision 3D was a new attraction.

That meant guests in 1991 during the summer time can say Disney MGM Studios felt like a full day park more likely than a Guest in Spring of 1989.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The thing is you can't call Star Wars was a Grand opening attraction for Disney MGM Studios. Disney MGM Studios grand opening was on May 1st, 1989. The official opening of Star Tours was on December 15th, 1989. That helped Disney MGM Studios out for Christmas of 1989, but Disney MGM Studios was hurting before the official opening of Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular! of August 25th, 1989 and Star Tours on December 15th, 1989.

Even with the amount of time with the Backlot Tour, it had to a disappointment for guests during the peak Season of WDW since Star Tours wasn't open before December and Indiana Jones stunt Show wasn't open before August 25th. It is hard to call Disney MGM Studios a feel of a full day park even with the amount of time the full Studio Tour was for gusts before August 25th, 1989.

I was part of what constituted the Internet in 1989 and remember that people were genuinely PO'ed at the initial opening on Disney-MGM Studios in May 1989.

By 1990, after the opening of Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular and Star Tours, I recall attitudes completely changing.

By the time I finally made it to Disney-MGM Studios in May 1990, I remember really enjoying the park.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

My memory is foggy from what happened all those years ago, but I recall people (at least among those who posted) disliking Eisner after the price increases of 1985 & 1986, and genuinely hating him after the opening of Disney-MGM Studios in early 1989.

Hey, what can I say? Even in the 1989, WDW fans were demanding.

Things were quelled in 1990 and, with the opening of Tower of Terror in 1994, we online were describing Eisner as the greatest CEO ever.

To me Eisner was the man who didn't finish EPCOT. All those WS countries that I was drooling over in my EPCOT books! Spain, Israel, Venezuela, 'Africa'!
Eisner didn't finish any of the plans for the rest of the World either. An ill-fitting Strong Man catapulted there to prevent outside sharks. I was very disappointed that instead of the glorious Asian he build the Grand Floridian. A nice enough sugarpalace hotel, but one that compared to the Asian looked like a boring Florida retirement home.

By 1989 though my opinion shifted. You couldn't help but be energised by the contagious expansion vibe. Disney at last had come alive after being dormant after 1982. And then some! New movies, new theme parks, one announced in Europe too. Rides in EPCOT, Mickey's Birthdayland. At last TWDC had cast aside the ghost of Walt. The question was no longer 'What would Walt have done, have thought of this'. Disney was no longer looking back, no longer tryng to fulfil Walt's dreams, but was looking ahead, full steam.


My fav 'new' ride is Thunder Mountain . But, in sticking with the topic of this thread, what if I back then had known that it came in the place of the far more ambitious WRE? (Well, little, considering I was ten, but those a bit older though...?)

 

[BiffyClyro]

Still complaining I bet.

 

[rnese]

All that there was in the beginning of the 80's was magic kingdom. In the fall of 82 EPCOT center was added brand new and sparkling. When Walt said that "in Florida we have the blessing of size" he got it wrong. Size is the exact reason of the decline along with other things. It was a curse, not a blessing.

Uh...Hey Boss! I know a little bit about the '80's. I used to drive a cab for the Sunshine Cab Company back then. Question......Are you saying that SIZE matters?