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ICS Weekends: Disney Debates
- Thread starter DSquared
- Start date
spacemt354
Chili's
tcool123
Well-Known Member
A 100 apologies I was planning on posting earlier, but my family forgot to buy gifts for several people. Then we had to brace the pre Noche Buena traffic, and worry about the early Christmas Dinner we were having tonight.
My choice to debate was SpectroMagic. I'm going with SpectroMagic as it's the best light parade we have ever seen here in the states. The main theme is enchanting, and the selection of characters are great. The float designs are uniquely Disney, and are extravagantly designed. There's not a single moment in the parade where one catches themselves thinking 'Well that was nice, but they should really change this or that'. All in all this parade to quote Mary Poppins "Practically Perfect in Every Way".
SpectroMagic should return with plenty of updates to either Magic Kingdom replacing the ancient Main Street Electrical Parade, or Disneyland Park at Paris since they have no light parade. Heck why not both! This parade was great when it used to be in Magic Kingdom, and if its updated with a few tweaks at each park it'll only improve an already great parade. Along with the obvious updates of better lighting and new modern characters to go along with new floats, and various new float designs. So I think if this attraction were to come back it would be a big hit, and would bring happiness to thousands of fans.
My choice to debate was SpectroMagic. I'm going with SpectroMagic as it's the best light parade we have ever seen here in the states. The main theme is enchanting, and the selection of characters are great. The float designs are uniquely Disney, and are extravagantly designed. There's not a single moment in the parade where one catches themselves thinking 'Well that was nice, but they should really change this or that'. All in all this parade to quote Mary Poppins "Practically Perfect in Every Way".
SpectroMagic should return with plenty of updates to either Magic Kingdom replacing the ancient Main Street Electrical Parade, or Disneyland Park at Paris since they have no light parade. Heck why not both! This parade was great when it used to be in Magic Kingdom, and if its updated with a few tweaks at each park it'll only improve an already great parade. Along with the obvious updates of better lighting and new modern characters to go along with new floats, and various new float designs. So I think if this attraction were to come back it would be a big hit, and would bring happiness to thousands of fans.
spacemt354
Chili's
Rebuttal:
Adventures Thru Inner Space -
The prompt is about which extinct attraction should be brought back to the parks. Bringing back this attraction would be nothing more than a nostalgia tip of the hat to fans because not only has modern technology caught up and surpassed this attraction, the premise is outdated.
Think about attractions like "Flight to the Moon" ...very popular during the Space Race because it was relevant to that society. However, it wouldn't fit in today's world because we already accomplished that.
In 1965 - one of the major breakthroughs in science was the publication of "Electron Microscopy of Thin Crystals" by Peter Hirsch. The main focus of the attraction was shrinking and shrinking down to atoms and further on...however, ever since this publication, microscopy has evolved so much to the point where this attraction would be uninteresting. Much like how the space race attractions are outdated, bringing this attraction back would be outdated as well. The only option is to change the premise...which by my interpretation...changing the question entirely because this question is about bringing back extinct attractions (not changing up the story).
Spectromagic -
Parades are never a big hit among us, as unlike attractions, the re-watchability of them is limited especially in the Magic Kingdom where it is a pain just to get a spot. The best part about Spectromagic is the music for me...but I don't need to bring back the parade to listen to it, heck you just provided me with the music above!
And much like Tiki's I don't believe providing updates stays true to the question prompt. We are bringing back the extinct attraction. Spectromagic in the 00s wouldn't have technology of today.
And as you said...if "there's not a single moment in the parade where one catches themselves thinking 'Well that was nice, but they should really change this or that'"...then why would updates be needed? I thought it was perfect?
Overall, Food Rocks has an educational premise that is paramount to today's climate and could be extrapolated verbatim from the 1994-2004 show without the need for a change of script or enhancements. Not all attractions need to be E-tickets and Epcot is in need of unique attractions like Food Rocks, and since its relevant to society today, I think it's the best choice out of these three.
Adventures Thru Inner Space -
The prompt is about which extinct attraction should be brought back to the parks. Bringing back this attraction would be nothing more than a nostalgia tip of the hat to fans because not only has modern technology caught up and surpassed this attraction, the premise is outdated.
Think about attractions like "Flight to the Moon" ...very popular during the Space Race because it was relevant to that society. However, it wouldn't fit in today's world because we already accomplished that.
In 1965 - one of the major breakthroughs in science was the publication of "Electron Microscopy of Thin Crystals" by Peter Hirsch. The main focus of the attraction was shrinking and shrinking down to atoms and further on...however, ever since this publication, microscopy has evolved so much to the point where this attraction would be uninteresting. Much like how the space race attractions are outdated, bringing this attraction back would be outdated as well. The only option is to change the premise...which by my interpretation...changing the question entirely because this question is about bringing back extinct attractions (not changing up the story).
Spectromagic -
Parades are never a big hit among us, as unlike attractions, the re-watchability of them is limited especially in the Magic Kingdom where it is a pain just to get a spot. The best part about Spectromagic is the music for me...but I don't need to bring back the parade to listen to it, heck you just provided me with the music above!
And much like Tiki's I don't believe providing updates stays true to the question prompt. We are bringing back the extinct attraction. Spectromagic in the 00s wouldn't have technology of today.
And as you said...if "there's not a single moment in the parade where one catches themselves thinking 'Well that was nice, but they should really change this or that'"...then why would updates be needed? I thought it was perfect?
Overall, Food Rocks has an educational premise that is paramount to today's climate and could be extrapolated verbatim from the 1994-2004 show without the need for a change of script or enhancements. Not all attractions need to be E-tickets and Epcot is in need of unique attractions like Food Rocks, and since its relevant to society today, I think it's the best choice out of these three.
TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
Ahhh, Space you dumb little Monkey you. You slid right into my plan!
Yea, of course science and technology has come a long way since the original Inner Space. That's the point of why I want to bring it back. Not only has technology on the theme park side of things but with full fireworks shows with elaborate projection mapping effects and whatnot, but we've also reached new frontiers in the realm of science...And tell me some of those new frontiers wouldn't be fantastic settings in their own right. A revised Inner Space would most certainly NOT be a nostalgia trip. All you really need is the Mighty Microscope, the concept of shrinking, and Corey Burton doing Paul Frees style narration. After that you can literally tell ANY story you want. See my "Adventures Thru the Inner Body" concept where you get shrunk onto a blood cell instead of an atom.
Food Rocks doesn't have the historical significance of the Tiki Room...which frankly historically speaking I think that's the only reason Tiki Room is as popular as it is right now. It's obviously a hallmark of theme park technology and something that Walt worked very closely with, so of course there's an air of mystique to it. Food Rocks simply does NOT have that kind of legacy. Your points are solid for giving people a lesson in good nutrition, but by the same token wasn't the original problem with EPCOT the fact that it was too educational. Seems to me like kids would phase out of a show with out-dated tech quickly if it's mostly just a good dieting practice PSA. I feel like the modern day climate that my attraction would enter into would help it creatively, whereas the politically correct/anti obesity agenda you're proposing feels less like a story decision and more like a corporate decision.
As for Spectro...Parades come and go, simple as that. I've never been a big fan of them as a whole. I'm sure you have a ton of nostalgia for Spectro or else you wouldn't have picked it, but in the brief clips I've seen I thought a lot of the characters and costumes verged on the creepy side of things and it felt like trying to "modernize" the Electrical Parade without doing a good job of keeping the spirit of the original in tact. From what I understand it was essentially the non-disastrous version of Light Magic which has a HORRIBLE reputation in California as the parade they tried to replace MSEP with to dismal reviews. Anything that's even close thematically to Light Magic probably should be left in the past.
Yea, of course science and technology has come a long way since the original Inner Space. That's the point of why I want to bring it back. Not only has technology on the theme park side of things but with full fireworks shows with elaborate projection mapping effects and whatnot, but we've also reached new frontiers in the realm of science...And tell me some of those new frontiers wouldn't be fantastic settings in their own right. A revised Inner Space would most certainly NOT be a nostalgia trip. All you really need is the Mighty Microscope, the concept of shrinking, and Corey Burton doing Paul Frees style narration. After that you can literally tell ANY story you want. See my "Adventures Thru the Inner Body" concept where you get shrunk onto a blood cell instead of an atom.
Food Rocks doesn't have the historical significance of the Tiki Room...which frankly historically speaking I think that's the only reason Tiki Room is as popular as it is right now. It's obviously a hallmark of theme park technology and something that Walt worked very closely with, so of course there's an air of mystique to it. Food Rocks simply does NOT have that kind of legacy. Your points are solid for giving people a lesson in good nutrition, but by the same token wasn't the original problem with EPCOT the fact that it was too educational. Seems to me like kids would phase out of a show with out-dated tech quickly if it's mostly just a good dieting practice PSA. I feel like the modern day climate that my attraction would enter into would help it creatively, whereas the politically correct/anti obesity agenda you're proposing feels less like a story decision and more like a corporate decision.
As for Spectro...Parades come and go, simple as that. I've never been a big fan of them as a whole. I'm sure you have a ton of nostalgia for Spectro or else you wouldn't have picked it, but in the brief clips I've seen I thought a lot of the characters and costumes verged on the creepy side of things and it felt like trying to "modernize" the Electrical Parade without doing a good job of keeping the spirit of the original in tact. From what I understand it was essentially the non-disastrous version of Light Magic which has a HORRIBLE reputation in California as the parade they tried to replace MSEP with to dismal reviews. Anything that's even close thematically to Light Magic probably should be left in the past.
spacemt354
Chili's
(tcool can still rebuttle...but to speed this up a little)
Conclusion:
In regards to Adventures Thru Inner Space the prompt says "which extinct attraction would you bring back" ...I feel like you're not answering the prompt if you can change the attraction's story and arc to fit the current day climate...since that's not bringing back the extinct attraction...that's just making a new attraction with hints at the old one. And as I said previously, the old attraction is outdated...science has surpassed it decades ago...so it doesn't fit anymore.
Again, if you change Adventures Thru Inner Space to Adventures Thru The Inner Body...that's not bringing back the extinct attraction. The only way you've justified bringing the attraction back is by changing the entire premise of the attraction. Captain EO is probably the best example of bringing back an extinct attraction...it's the exact same show from 1986 and was reopened in 2010. They didn't change the plot of it. That's what bringing back an extinct attraction is.
And also...look at the climate today on these forums and around Disney fans...people are upset that Epcot is being "dumbed down" with Frozen and drunkytown festivals...people thought the problem was that Epcot was too educational and are now clamoring for more education. Let's give the people what they want.
In regards to Spectromagic...I've seen it enough...there's nothing "special" about it except for nostalgia or a love for it, which I totally get, but bringing it back would do nothing but garner reactions of..."oh okay...a parade with different music." And besides...we already brought back Spectromagic...It debuted from 1991 - 1999 and then was brought back in 2001 - 2010...there's no need to bring it back again.
Food Rocks is a fun show filled with puns and singing food. It's catchy and also educational...the exact thing that Epcot is supposed to embody..."edutainment". It's not a politically correct narrative at all...I've sat through too many lectures these last few months on the medical health issues plaguing our country and while Food Rocks not going to stop the crisis at all...every little bit makes a difference and what better way to teach kids young and old than through a fun-filled show.
Conclusion:
In regards to Adventures Thru Inner Space the prompt says "which extinct attraction would you bring back" ...I feel like you're not answering the prompt if you can change the attraction's story and arc to fit the current day climate...since that's not bringing back the extinct attraction...that's just making a new attraction with hints at the old one. And as I said previously, the old attraction is outdated...science has surpassed it decades ago...so it doesn't fit anymore.
Again, if you change Adventures Thru Inner Space to Adventures Thru The Inner Body...that's not bringing back the extinct attraction. The only way you've justified bringing the attraction back is by changing the entire premise of the attraction
. Captain EO is probably the best example of bringing back an extinct attraction...it's the exact same show from 1986 and was reopened in 2010. They didn't change the plot of it. That's what bringing back an extinct attraction is.And also...look at the climate today on these forums and around Disney fans...people are upset that Epcot is being "dumbed down" with Frozen and drunkytown festivals...people thought the problem was that Epcot was too educational and are now clamoring for more education.
Let's give the people what they want.In regards to Spectromagic...I've seen it enough...there's nothing "special" about it except for nostalgia or a love for it, which I totally get, but bringing it back would do nothing but garner reactions of..."oh okay...a parade with different music." And besides...we already brought back Spectromagic...It debuted from 1991 - 1999 and then was brought back in 2001 - 2010...there's no need to bring it back again.
Food Rocks is a fun show filled with puns and singing food. It's catchy and also educational...the exact thing that Epcot is supposed to embody..."edutainment". It's not a politically correct narrative at all...I've sat through too many lectures these last few months on the medical health issues plaguing our country and while Food Rocks not going to stop the crisis at all...every little bit makes a difference and what better way to teach kids young and old than through a fun-filled show.
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spacemt354
Chili's
TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
tcool123
Well-Known Member
@spacemt354
Food Rocks! isn't really much of a good show. It pales in comparison to its predecessor Kitchen Kabaret. Nor does this show have a very memorable song compared to Kitchen Kabaret like Veggie, Veggie Fruit, Fruit. The designs of many of the new characters in this show are really creepy. While the quality of the performers completely pale in comparison of the quality of the animatronics present in Kitchen Kabaret. All in all I feel that Food Rocks is the weaker of the two shows based on food.
@TheOriginalTiki
While you say Adventures thru Inner Space is a great experience I strongly disagree. The only memorable part is the microscope like you said, but that's pretty much it. Nothing else really sticked out. Heck the microscope isn't even in the ride it's just part of the queue. I tried to watch a video of the ride to familiarize myself with it , but alas it was fantastically boring. The narrator to me had a monotone voice the way through, and the things they had to look at were kind of boring. If I was a kid once more I would ride it once, and never ride it again simply because it was boring. No I take that back my parents would've ridden it, and never take me on it as it was so boring. I bet if the ride lasted long enough we would have a Honey, I Shrunk the Riders attraction, or it would've been shuttered, and been shuttered until it reopened as a restaurant serving theme park food like pizza. Thank goodness Star Tours opened up in its place as its at least 12 parsecs ahead of it.
I end my rebuttal (sorry for the long wait)
Food Rocks! isn't really much of a good show. It pales in comparison to its predecessor Kitchen Kabaret. Nor does this show have a very memorable song compared to Kitchen Kabaret like Veggie, Veggie Fruit, Fruit. The designs of many of the new characters in this show are really creepy. While the quality of the performers completely pale in comparison of the quality of the animatronics present in Kitchen Kabaret. All in all I feel that Food Rocks is the weaker of the two shows based on food.
@TheOriginalTiki
While you say Adventures thru Inner Space is a great experience I strongly disagree. The only memorable part is the microscope like you said, but that's pretty much it. Nothing else really sticked out. Heck the microscope isn't even in the ride it's just part of the queue. I tried to watch a video of the ride to familiarize myself with it , but alas it was fantastically boring. The narrator to me had a monotone voice the way through, and the things they had to look at were kind of boring. If I was a kid once more I would ride it once, and never ride it again simply because it was boring. No I take that back my parents would've ridden it, and never take me on it as it was so boring. I bet if the ride lasted long enough we would have a Honey, I Shrunk the Riders attraction, or it would've been shuttered, and been shuttered until it reopened as a restaurant serving theme park food like pizza. Thank goodness Star Tours opened up in its place as its at least 12 parsecs ahead of it.
I end my rebuttal (sorry for the long wait)
TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
Final statement:
First of all, can we get a ruling on what qualifies as "bringing back an extinct attraction"? I would argue that while not the most successful attempt, Luigi's Flying Tires "brought back" the Flying Saucers albeit in a completely different setting and theme. Disneyland is NOT a museum, and for that reason I think bringing back any of our choices and simply not changing or updating anything about them would be the least creative thing you could do. As long as you have the omnimovers, the Mighty Microscope, a "shrinking" storyline, and Corey Burton doing a mean Paul Frees impression, the rest is just gravy. It'd be pointless to bring back any attraction if it remained exactly the same.
As for Tcool's arguments about the ride itself being stale...I simply don't agree. What other extinct attraction has a fanbase so devoted that someone made an entire digital recreation of the ride experience...Not just the microscope/queue (though granted I'll give you that the microscope definitely provides the attraction with an identity) The magic of Inner Space is actually how the scenes themselves were presented in a somewhat non-linear way. Instead of going set-piece to set-piece you're simply immersed in the world of the attraction from all angels using a bunch of different bits of new technology.
Food Rocks would be fine to come back in today's generation but I don't think kids would be all that into the show to begin with (like I said...Tiki Room holds a special spot for people of all ages mostly for its historical value) and I hardly even consider parades full blown "attractions". They're more like events. Not to mention every parade nowadays seems like it just wants to ape the Electrical Parade, so a new Spectromagic would just be following in Paint the Night's footsteps. Inner Space is the ONLY choice if you want a bold and iconic attraction with a ton of potential to grow into something even more special for the next generation.
First of all, can we get a ruling on what qualifies as "bringing back an extinct attraction"? I would argue that while not the most successful attempt, Luigi's Flying Tires "brought back" the Flying Saucers albeit in a completely different setting and theme. Disneyland is NOT a museum, and for that reason I think bringing back any of our choices and simply not changing or updating anything about them would be the least creative thing you could do. As long as you have the omnimovers, the Mighty Microscope, a "shrinking" storyline, and Corey Burton doing a mean Paul Frees impression, the rest is just gravy. It'd be pointless to bring back any attraction if it remained exactly the same.
As for Tcool's arguments about the ride itself being stale...I simply don't agree. What other extinct attraction has a fanbase so devoted that someone made an entire digital recreation of the ride experience...Not just the microscope/queue (though granted I'll give you that the microscope definitely provides the attraction with an identity) The magic of Inner Space is actually how the scenes themselves were presented in a somewhat non-linear way. Instead of going set-piece to set-piece you're simply immersed in the world of the attraction from all angels using a bunch of different bits of new technology.
Food Rocks would be fine to come back in today's generation but I don't think kids would be all that into the show to begin with (like I said...Tiki Room holds a special spot for people of all ages mostly for its historical value) and I hardly even consider parades full blown "attractions". They're more like events. Not to mention every parade nowadays seems like it just wants to ape the Electrical Parade, so a new Spectromagic would just be following in Paint the Night's footsteps. Inner Space is the ONLY choice if you want a bold and iconic attraction with a ton of potential to grow into something even more special for the next generation.
tcool123
Well-Known Member
Final Statement
Parades are wonderful, and like it or not the best of the best being SpectroMagic has a huge fan base. What other attraction can you think of where guests would easily waste 1 - 2 hours of potential time in rides, but are instead looking for the perfect spot for the incoming parade. Parades bring life to a park. It pumps in music, and provides colorful visuals to all. Even if you say "Oh I'm not going to watch the parade, I'm going to do _______." you know you will if even catch a glimpse of a float, or a sample of the music. Your sucked into the magic that only Disney can provide.
Parades are wonderful, and like it or not the best of the best being SpectroMagic has a huge fan base. What other attraction can you think of where guests would easily waste 1 - 2 hours of potential time in rides, but are instead looking for the perfect spot for the incoming parade. Parades bring life to a park. It pumps in music, and provides colorful visuals to all. Even if you say "Oh I'm not going to watch the parade, I'm going to do _______." you know you will if even catch a glimpse of a float, or a sample of the music. Your sucked into the magic that only Disney can provide.
TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
spacemt354
Chili's
Based on the question - which extinct attraction would you bring back and why - by definition it has to be the original "extinct" attraction.
Changing up the attraction's premise changes up the question entirely. Because Luigi's Flying Tires was never "extinct" ...it was inspired by an old concept.
By my interpretation - "inspired by" and "extinct" are two completely different things. Like I said before "Captain EO" is an example of bringing back an extinct attraction.
TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
Also, we all know Captain EO would have never come back had it not been for Michael Jackson's death. As cool as it was to see in the parks again, that show's comeback was the definition of milking off of nostalgia while not bringing anything new to the table. That shouldn't be what Imagineering is about.
spacemt354
Chili's
But that's the definition of bringing back an extinct attraction. It isnt supoosed to bring anything new to the table. It was brought back verbatim. It was brought back actually because people requested it...and was in loving memory of a pop icon.
But that's irrelevant to my point...
What you have been arguing isn't in line with the definition of an extinct attraction.
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TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
spacemt354
Chili's
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