ICS Weekends: Disney Debates

DSquared

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Gotcha

Round 2:


Fantasyland is one of the most famous lands in all of Disney Parks and Resorts, and a signature of the parks. Pick an attraction from any of these Fantasylands that is the best and explain why.

Once again, we start with opening statements.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Alrighty, so for my Fantasyland attraction I chose the Matterhorn at the Disneyland Resort

I chose this for a few reasons:

1 - For its historical relevance. The Matterhorn was the first steel coaster ever produced for a theme park and is still in operation to this day.
2 - For its uniqueness. When we went to Disneyland for the first time, the #1 attraction to ride on our list was the Matterhorn. Because you can't find it anywhere else. The exclusivity of the Matterhorn to Disneyland adds to its significance.
3 - For its design. Out of all Fantasyland attractions, this is by far the most detailed attraction in terms of size and scale...despite being built in the 1950s, it's towering presence over Fantasyland still holds up to this day!

While both Tiki and tcool's selections that you will see are great attractions, you can ride those attractions in other Disney parks. What makes the Matterhorn the best for me is that its a one of a kind engineering feat that might be one of if not the most iconic symbol of the Disneyland Resort.
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tcool123

Well-Known Member
My attraction of choice is Mickey's PhillarMagic located at Fantasyland at Magic Kingdom, Hong Kong Disneyland, and Tokyo Disneyland.

The reason I choose Mickey's Phillarmagic because there is nothing else like it. It strikes wonder to all younglings, and those young at heart. When it debuted it left many breathless, and to this day it still does. The 3D is like nothing I've ever seen before the image looks like it's really flying out at you unlike in typical 3D movies at your local cinema. The various other effects present in the theater evoke the feeling that you are really there. From the smell of Lumiere's banquet, to the night air rushing past you on a magic carpet ride through Agrabah. The selection of scenes present in the attraction are classics from Fantasia to Lion King it has the best of the best in the show. Overall this whole show is wondrous and is easily the best attraction at any Fantasyland.

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TheOriginalTiki

Well-Known Member
I will be arguing for the original Disneyland version of It's a Small World.

This is a controversial choice, I know. Small World is definitely a divisive attraction, and probably its single most well known element is how catchy the song is. But allow me to lay out why I believe the legacy of the attraction goes far beyond the song. It starts with Walt Disney's original mission statement for the attraction...a prayer for world peace. That alone makes It's a Small World one of the existing attractions that was near and dear to Walt's philosophies as an entertainer. He made something for everyone, and love it or hate it the attraction has certainly stood the test of time and has remained one of the most beloved theme park icons on the planet.

Let me lay out why Disneyland's version of Small World in particular is so special. @spacemt354 mentioned that the experience is basically the same throughout the world. What he failed to mention is how iconic the exterior facade and topiary gardens are to the overall fabric of the attraction, and how that effect is completely lost at Florida. Let's do a compare and contrast shall we. Would you rather have this...

smallworld.jpg


Or the local department store window display version :p
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Also let's point out some firsts. This was the first attraction of its kind of feature the large amounts of individual boats which would soon become famous in Pirates of the Caribbean among other attractions. This along with the PeopleMover system was a revolution in pumping out THOUSANDS more guests per hour than was possible beforehand when introduced at the 1964-1965 Worlds Fair. I think that alone should score some points for historical relevance. All in all from the synchronized delights of the clock tower exterior to the grand finale the attraction has charmed the pants off generations upon generations of park guests and will continue to be an iconic fixture of the park for as long as there is a Disneyland.

Oh and also it's the secret passage way to Tomorrowland. That oughta count for something, right ;)
 

TheOriginalTiki

Well-Known Member
The Matterhorn is actually something that my family would skip over when we made our yearly treks to Disneyland (oh how I wish that was still a tradition. Haven't been since high school graduation...) I totally give the attraction props for historical significance and the scale of the mountain, but I actually enjoy looking at the Matterhorn more than I do riding it.

Granted the recent effects upgrades definitely helped, but it's still a BUMPY and all around uncomfortable ride. Also I find the queue to be one of the worst that I've ever come across since it always completely jams up the walkways surrounding the mountain making for a crowd control nightmare on peak days.

Philharmagic is a 3D attraction, and frankly I think 3D attractions in general are going the way of the dodo. HISTA is gone, MuppetVision was uncerimoniously evicted from DCA in favor of Frozen, Terminator at Universal Hollywood was replaced by a proper simulator, and every time I've visited California's It's Tough to be a Bug...even as far back as like 2008 before the big 3D craze really hit and you could see 3D at every movie theater...the attraction was still playing to like less than half full audiences. I'm sure Philharmagic is among the best of the bunch, but regardless it's still a dying breed and definitely doesn't have the staying power of either Matterhorn or Small World...let alone the historical significance.

Also it commits a cardinal sin that I think MANY Disney Park offerings recently have suffered from which is basically being a Disney "Greatest Hits" mix tape. I have the same criticism with World of Color. It's not exactly amazing creativity when you're essentially mooching off of great moments in animation. Fantasyland dark rides like Peter Pan and Mr. Toad take you into that world in very unique and interactive ways. Shows like World of Color and Philharmagic are much more passive experiences which is why the "greatest hits" format in general never sits right with me.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Rebuttals:

it's a small world's facade at Disneyland is definitely very aesthetically pleasing, but it's not unique. There are 6 versions of it's a small world throughout the Disney Parks (WDW, DL, Tokyo Disneyland, Disneyland Paris, Hong Kong Disneyland, and upcoming Shanghai Disneyland.)

In those versions, several of them, including Tokyo Disneyland below, have the expansive Mary Blair exterior.
800px-%22it%27s_a_small_world%22_at_TDL.jpg


While it's a small world is definitely a classic in and of it's own, if we are going to "rank" the "classicity" of these attractions, Matterhorn is the elder of the two attractions 1959 vs 1966 and also revolutionized the way roller coasters are designed. For that, it gets the edge in my book.

While Matterhorn may be bumpy, so is Space Mountain in WDW, but that doesn't take away from the attraction. And we went to Disneyland on Christmas Day, arguably the most peak time of the year, and while we waited 60 mins for the Matterhorn, I thought the line was organized quite well and WDW should take some notes because I never felt claustrophobic which is something that can happen to me when jammed in queue lines.

For Mickey's Philarmagic, I personally enjoy the attraction, but among family it isn't the most popular selection mostly because of the 3D effects so we have to skip it most of the time. The Aladdin Magic Carpet scene is what gets to some people.
 

tcool123

Well-Known Member
Matterhorn may have historical significance, but it can sure pack a wallop to unsuspecting tourists. Honestly, do you really need to ride a ride that if you are not the right body size you will be hurt in the process of scaling and zipping through the mountain? The Matterhorn also has little no Fantasy elements if it weren't for the abominable snowman it would be completely out of place in a land based on make believe and whimsical dreams. Also is it just me, or does this mountain look rectangular?

it's a small world may be a classic, but it's theme song is a pain. Once that annoying tune comes into your head forget about it. You may as well allow permanent residence for it as it's never going to leave your head. The dolls are even worse. They don't blink. They just move, and sing that infernal song. All the while staring at you while you and your family try to enjoy the eerily creepy ride. Best of all once you think it's all over your more than likely to get into a boat jam. Sometimes taking hours to get through while that song plays on, and the dolls just keep staring. And for the recent additions for it's a small world? Awful! The Disney characters glare out of the ride sticking out like a sore thumb. I now end my rebuddle.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Can I rebuttal a rebuttal?:p (If I can't sorry, but I just wanted to respond to something)

Matterhorn is one of the most tame roller coasters around. While bumpy, there are no major hairpin turns, no giant drops of pain. I think the pain aspect is taken out of proportion because we have a few people in our party (who by BMI counts might be considered a tad overweight) and they loved the Matterhorn and said this was so much better than Space Mountain in terms of bumpiness...and they ride Space without much complaining anyway.

Also...Fantasyland is a broad stroked term. For me, it's about taking a journey to places we dream of. What better way to do that than to face a "fantasy" creature on a snow peaked mountain of the adventurous Alps? It's not just a regurgitation of a Disney animated film in Sparknotes form. It's taking you on a brand new adventure and has stood the test of time for over 50+ years.

Edit: if I can't ...this can act as my conclusion;)
 

tcool123

Well-Known Member
Tiki, you say 3D movie attractions are a dying art, but I say nay! Every time I have seen PhillarMagic the theater is nearly filled with eager guests! And other 3D films hold up even stronger look no farther than to Despicable Me : Minion Mayhem a 3D film that constantly has a long wait. I believe that if a 3D film is great, and perhaps a bit randomize able similar to Star Tours it would not only rejuvenate 3D attractions, but it will make a species of attractions greater than it is. While you slash Disney's Greatest Hits attractions youfoget, that's the point of the attraction. The attraction revolves around music found in beloved Disney classics. So while you yell boo, I say yay as these songs fit perfectly with the goal of the attraction which is Donald travelling to various Disney lands with the power of music.

Space, what I'm hearing from you is that it sounds more like genetics than the attractions fault. I have a type of motion sickness, as does my mom, and her mom before that. However my brother, and my mother's sisters do not feel motion sickness. The easiest solution for them is simple just close their eyes if they still wish to experience it, and they get sick at any given point.

All in all Mickey's PhillarMagic is a great attraction that in my opinion is destined to become a Disney classic like the Mickey Mouse Revue.
 

TheOriginalTiki

Well-Known Member
Were arguing the best overall attraction, not the most historical one. The Matterhorn has never offered the level of detail to accompany the great exterior that other famous "mountain" attractions like Big Thunder, Splash, and Space are known for. The attraction is most just going around the mountain in a vague circle with maybe three small set pieces. I find this to be an overall flaw with the way the mountain and the track layout was designed. There's simply no way to get proper show elements into the mountain without enclosing it entirely. And yea, I'll second Tcool and say that it completely goes against every other attraction in Fantasyland in terms of there not being really anything too fantastical about it.

Though granted I'll throw Space a bone and say that the 1980's Fantasyland redo was effing brilliant for how it used the Matterhorn as a centerpiece for the Alpine Village setup. Something that he failed to bring up while having to defend how utterly bumpy and uncomfortable the ride itself is ;) Again, I think the mountain itself works much better visually for how it accompanies the rest of the park rather than the actual experience of the ride.

I believe Tcool when he says that there's still crowds at Philharmagic. In general I know WDW 3D shows have more attendance than the ones at DLR. My case still stands that the novelty of 3D has completely become commonplace. Here's my biggest argument against 3D. When I went to see Star Wars on Thursday there were still freaking EMPTY SEATS on the night of the premiere in my theater. I was sitting next to three of them and couldn't believe they weren't getting taken up. Why? Because it was a 3D screening and everyone wanted to go to the 2D screenings. Simple as that. 3D is pretty much BORING nowadays.

My final statement on Small World...Yes the song gets in your head, is an earworm, and won't leave for days. It's incredibly memorable and honestly probably one of the most recognizable single songs ever written worldwide. And you say that like it's a bad thing! Granted I'll give you the fact that the overflow at the end can be a pain but it's a huge exaggeration to say anyone's waiting literal hours to get off. Also I don't mind the addition of the characters as I find it to be a neat tribute to just how multicultural Disney films are in that each of the characters are all in their appropriate countries. I'll end my argument how I started it, with the simple fact that It's a Small World represents a lot of Walt Disney's ideology bottled up and packaged into an attraction. Walt's fingerprints are all over that show building, and the simple charm of the sets, dolls, music, and Mary Blair artwork will forever be ingrained as a beloved cultural experience known around the world. It's a Small World indeed!
 

DSquared

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Tcool:

Good job picking at the other attractions and defending your own, but I think the 3D thing got you, even though you had good defence on it.

Space:

Love how you basically said that Matterhorn revolutionized coasters. There's no argument for that.Think you could have picked at Philarmagic a bit more.

Tiki:

Good job picking at the other two again. The creepy doll thing and the song being a bit of an earworm got you a bit though.



This one was even closer, but this round goes to...........

@tcool123


I'm having to get off now, so do you want me to start the next then reply after school, or wait?
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Tcool:

Good job picking at the other attractions and defending your own, but I think the 3D thing got you, even though you had good defence on it.

Space:

Love how you basically said that Matterhorn revolutionized coasters. There's no argument for that.Think you could have picked at Philarmagic a bit more.

Tiki:

Good job picking at the other two again. The creepy doll thing and the song being a bit of an earworm got you a bit though.



This one was even closer, but this round goes to...........

@tcool123


I'm having to get off now, so do you want me to start the next then reply after school, or wait?
Start it now! (please) I'm ready to go!:p
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Okay so i actually changed up my answer from the PM, but it doesn't affect either of your two options.

When deciding, my main point of contention was that the attraction that I choose must resonate with today's society, and be meaningful to bring back. It can't simply be based on nostalgia or hearsay about what the best attractions were. It needs to be able to relate to its audience in 2015 and make a difference. With that, I have chosen:

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Over the last few decades there has been a growing concern in our culture, particularly the US, about the issue of obesity and related disorders such as diabetes, CHF, etc that plague generations of people who have unhealthy eating habits. Food Rocks is an attraction that promotes nutrition and makes healthy eating fun and is relevant to today's society.

Food Rocks is classified as a B-ticket 12 minute attraction. The reason why I chose it over Kitchen Kabaret (its predecessor) is because according to reviews, Food Rocks had the better storyline of the two, and I thought that a more streamlined and clear story-arc would resonate more with viewers.

Lastly, the one thing I wanted to ensure when making this decision was to not based my option on nostalgia. I could have very easily chosen something nostalgia-based (in fact I did have it before this) however nostalgia can cloud judgment and make you think something is better than it actually is. Plus not all nostalgia is relevant to today's society and that is the essential ingredient when bringing an extinct attraction back.
 

TheOriginalTiki

Well-Known Member
I'll be arguing for Adventure Thru Inner Space. This attraction was absolutely ahead of its time in terms of having minimalist sets and featuring mostly projection technology. While I'm always an advocate of physical sets and AAs, there's something to be said of how effective the original Inner Space was at transporting you into another world with just a few cardboard cutouts and a lot of darkness and lighting tricks.

My argument stems from the fact that projection technology now leads the theme park industry. The attraction is still largely recognizable to modern crowds thanks to the iconic Mighty Microscope...which in my mind serves as almost a bit of a symbol for great extinct attractions in general. Get Corey Burton in there to record some more Paul Fries dialogue (to this day I think his Inner Space narration was his single best vocal performance), get some state of the art projection mapping technology, and maybe even come up with a new concept (as I did when I pitched a trip into the human body as opposed to the atom, but using the same narrator/Mighty Microscope etc.) It's a far reaching concept that can be played with in a number of different ways, it's easily one of the most well remembered extinct attractions in Disney Park history, and the technological innovations present in the original attraction would be ramped up even more with today's technology. It's the perfect choice for a modern interpretation.
 

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