I think I might be done with WDW.

[Mickey5150]

So Haunted Mansion and Pirates should be closed right now because the parks must always be changing? My philosophy (and what it appeared WDI used to be based on as well) is if something still works as well as or better than it did on its opening day, there’s no reason to change it for the heck of it, but the opposite seems to be WDI’s course of action recently.

ToT is still as popular and memorable and thrilling today as it was opening day to the vast majority of crowds, so you know what we need to do? Replace it with a flavor-of-the-week IP-based ride that won’t last for longer than three years! Soarin’ is still as breathtaking of a ride as opening day, so you know what we need to do? Throw awkward transitions in and make a new video/CGI fest! That’ll hold up!

I’m all for change where’s it’s necessary (I don’t personally like a Guardians E-ticket coming to Epcot, but UoE was in desperate need of an update/replacement), but some of these decisions that have been made recently have been questionable.

No.

 

[21stamps]

We can't know who is the majority/minority at this time. The population increases every year so just a raw increased attendance doesn't tell you anything except what this quarters number will be. It is clear that Disney has determined that they want the Florida parks to be at this size for some reason. I doubt I will live to see a fifth gate and even with the current construction there is not much additional capacity beyond what has already been there. Disney is and has been for a while primarily an entertainment company - not a theme park company. To my mind the current approach is to milk as much money out of the parks as possible to finance the development of the new entertainment delivery platforms which are needed for the future. If the US parks didn't exist - today's Disney would not build them. Parks are only being built where Burbank believes they must have them to increase branding awareness in new markets.

In my little world of friends and acquaintances - I have seen a shift from lets go to Disney for vacation - to we have done that lets go somewhere else. To me this says that Disney is alienating repeat customers which is normally not considered a good thing to most business people since it costs more to acquire a new customer than keep an old one. The counter argument is that Disney doesn't need/want repeat customers since there are so many new ones available. That only works as long as there is a legacy of goodwill that Disney can draw upon. Every complaint or disappointment written about on these forums is a sign of this goodwill being reduced. The question is do the new customers experiences refill that bucket of goodwill? enough? I can't answer that for everyone only for myself and in my case the answer is no - my trips have become more infrequent and shorter - spending less money with Disney. Once the parks become just another amusement park it will take a monumental effort to educate potential visitors that Disney parks are better than .....

At it's prime nobody could imagine Sears failing either.

And by contrast, in my circle, there is maybe one month out of the year when someone I personally know is not visiting Disney.

February used to be the lone month, but this is the second year where I have good friends doing the Princess half.
I don’t know anyone who is visiting in March this year, the rest -1 or more family/friends are there.

 

[njDizFan]

I'll jump in at the risk not producing the kind of example to which Jim S is alluding:

Place: Magic Kingdom.....stage in front of Cinderella's Castle.
Goofy came on stage with the most feminine/girly looking parasol I have seen. He was dancing and "goofing" around with it for a few moments and then handed it off to a non character backup female performer.

Hold on?! what Goofy dancing with a "girly" parasol is PC?

Or, are you trying to say that Disney is in active gayification of the characters? And this is somehow pandering to the liberal audience? I still don't understand the political correctness of this action but go ahead knock yourself out.

 

[POLY LOVER]

People want Disney, they love Disney. I never heard one person ever say I love that corporation. When they say they love Disney they recall Walt and his story not their corporate quarterly EPS. In the past the results only had to satisfy Walt not Wall Street. Satisfying Wall Street means to produce quarter over quarter increased EPS. Wall Street is about green the fans are about the quality. If Disney ever goes bad Wall Street will turn on them like wolves. The true fans will never turn on walts dream.

 

[njDizFan]

It is what you make it. Nothing can change what exists right now.
Either someone enjoys it, or they don’t.

These threads are the same.. over and over. We are talking about a theme park.. not a child or a spouse.. it’s ok to grow away from something like a theme park. Even when you love it. Cherish your memories, but cut the cord if it brings you pain and negativity.

Seriously, it just doesn’t make sense to constantly complain about things that can’t be changed.

Love it leave it baby...always one of my favorite defensive responses.

Yes, it’s completely normal to voice one’s opinion, good or bad.
It’s when people start saying things like “Disney is no longer magical” “Disney has gone down hill” “All upcharge events are horrible money grabbing nonsense that will ruin Disney” etc etc etc.. and stating it as a fact, instead of an opinion, that’s when it gets a little weird.

I also want to add.. I think it’s odd to read people say “if you experienced Disney pre 90s you’d understand”
This is where the weirdness comes in.. Many of us have been going to Disney World for over 3 decades, and don’t share that opinion. People have to realize that an opinion is not one size fits all.

You can honestly say with a straight face that the Disney of 2018 is better than the Disney of 1996? Cleaner, more cohesive, more attractions? Better cast members? less crowded? What metric do you want to use?

And the banjo playing Canadians wearing plaid is super accurate of Canada too right? All the countries are very superficial and borderline racist at times at how face value they take their countries. When people think of Mexico they think of crystal skulls and margaritas, when people think of Italy they think of pasta and pizza, when people think of Norway they think of Frozen.

I absolutely in no way equate Norway to Frozen and if Anna and Elsa are the first things that comes to your mind, you need to get out more, or read a book maybe.

What obligation has a theme park to be educational? First obligation is entertainment. Use that as a delivery system to throw in some facts, great. I’m not taking a class, I’m going to Disney World - to see all the Disney specific stuff come to life. For education, I can watch PBS for a lot less money.



It’s hardly Trump-esque. You’re so smart, is that the reaction you’re looking for?

Well, so am I, but I still always found school boring. In fact, especially because I’m smart, I found school boring. How much is a theme park going to teach me?

I appreciate a few tidbits here and there. I paid extra for a Mexican lunch with tequila pairings and learned something about tequila. That was fun. It was my choice to do that.

I can’t meet your disdain in splitting hairs between “real” Norway (which was never real, but representative) and fake Norway (which has a location name with a few letters off.)



That’s what Disney is: commercialization. I’m sorry if you interpreted it otherwise.

There is no obligation for a theme park to be educational (although that was one of the great draws of the original Epcot Center) but a theme park by definition should have an obligation to keep to it's theme or it is failing miserably and is essentially an amusement park.

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

OK - gotta confess. Looking at the thread title?
This is sort of how park overcrowding gets solved . There really is no other way .
All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

 

[bhg469]

I cannot say that I will pay to enter the park again until a few years after Galaxy's edge opens, due to inevitable crowds. I get in occasionally thanks to a friend who is a CM, and even those times I just don't enjoy myself as much as I did when everything wasn't about micromanaging a trip. In fact, the last time I got in for free, I was in by 11am, and left by 5 at the latest. Didn't even set foot in Hollywood studios.

My wife and I are planning to move to FL in a few years, nowhere near the mouse, but we have discussed annual passes and neither one of us wants anything more than epcot after 4 passes. The only reason I may see myself going back is I now have a young niece that some how manages to manipulate me into doing whatever she wants, so there may be some visits for her when we are down there.

 

[21stamps]

Love it leave it baby...always one of my favorite defensive responses.


You can honestly say with a straight face that the Disney of 2018 is better than the Disney of 1996? Cleaner, more cohesive, more attractions? Better cast members? less crowded? What metric do you want to use?


I absolutely in no way equate Norway to Frozen and if Anna and Elsa are the first things that comes to your mind, you need to get out more, or read a book maybe.


There is no obligation for a theme park to be educational (although that was one of the great draws of the original Epcot Center) but a theme park by definition should have an obligation to keep to it's theme or it is failing miserably and is essentially an amusement park.

Yes, I can say that with a straight face. Because I live in the present, not the past. I go to Disney now- I enjoy it. I went to Disney as a child- I enjoyed it.

That’s all the metrics I need.

 

[jimbojones]

Stick with Universal Orlando and Disneyland.

Disneyland is really a remarkable breath of fresh air for those frustrated with WDW and I agree that anyone who yearns for WDW of the past should visit Disneyland. DL is better maintained and feels more loved by management, and despite the fact that they nickle and dime you just as badly at DL it doesn't feel as obvious.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Hold on?! what Goofy dancing with a "girly" parasol is PC?

Or, are you trying to say that Disney is in active gayification of the characters? And this is somehow pandering to the liberal audience? I still don't understand the political correctness of this action but go ahead knock yourself out.

Completely agree here. If anything, a presumably heterosexual male character acting “girly” for laughs is the opposite of PC.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

People want Disney, they love Disney. I never heard one person ever say I love that corporation. When they say they love Disney they recall Walt and his story not their corporate quarterly EPS. In the past the results only had to satisfy Walt not Wall Street. Satisfying Wall Street means to produce quarter over quarter increased EPS. Wall Street is about green the fans are about the quality. If Disney ever goes bad Wall Street will turn on them like wolves. The true fans will never turn on walts dream.

Then, with all due respect, they need to grow up and face reality.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

...You can honestly say with a straight face that the Disney of 2018 is better than the Disney of 1996? Cleaner, more cohesive, more attractions? Better cast members? less crowded? What metric do you want to use?

At least the Disney of 2018 is building new things and improving the parks. Back in 96, everything was closing or rotting on the vine.

 

[CoasterSnoop]

No.

Always happy to be part of the discussion.

 

[njDizFan]

At least the Disney of 2018 is building new things and improving the parks. Back in 96, everything was closing or rotting on the vine.

Except they just finished Blizzard Beach, WoL was open, Horizons was still running, BL tour was still going strong and DAK ( a whole new theme park) was being built. There were still slow seasons and in general the sharp pencil boys did not yet slash budgets to the bone.

But if you cite the 3 additions (Pandora, NFL, Everest) in the 20 years since Animal Kingdom was built as the reasoning why it was better 20 years ago, I would have to disagree.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

There is no obligation for a theme park to be educational (although that was one of the great draws of the original Epcot Center) but a theme park by definition should have an obligation to keep to it's theme or it is failing miserably and is essentially an amusement park.

I don’t know that it was enough of a draw. I was about 11 when it opened and remembered reading in the paper that those attractions weren’t generating enough interest. I remember other kids coming back from summer vacation saying they didn’t enjoy the educational stuff.

My first visit was 1998 and I was nearly 30. I was unimpressed with most of Innoventions, etc. but that’s me.

Re: theming: themes can evolve. Nobody can call Epcot just an amusement park, especially not because of Norway. If I can suspend disbelief enough for talking animals, I can handle Frozen.

I cannot say that I will pay to enter the park again until a few years after Galaxy's edge opens, due to inevitable crowds. I get in occasionally thanks to a friend who is a CM, and even those times I just don't enjoy myself as much as I did when everything wasn't about micromanaging a trip. In fact, the last time I got in for free, I was in by 11am, and left by 5 at the latest. Didn't even set foot in Hollywood studios.

My wife and I are planning to move to FL in a few years, nowhere near the mouse, but we have discussed annual passes and neither one of us wants anything more than epcot after 4 passes. The only reason I may see myself going back is I now have a young niece that some how manages to manipulate me into doing whatever she wants, so there may be some visits for her when we are down there.

If you’re going to go with Epcot after 4, I highly recommend the FL Weekday Select AP. It’s about $10 more each and a much better value.

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

Now - must admit: WDW has a serious issue.....
Again, All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

Just the opinion of my dear wife and I.... EVERYONE goes to the MK at WDW - because it is literally the only "real" park.

1) EPCOT - partially abandoned.
2) HS (or whatever the name is today) - half park construction zone.
3) AK - Pandora or nothing.

So, a REAL unpopular suggestion. NO MORE MK WORK. Fix, upgrade, the other three parks. MAKE them into something people actually want to go to.

1) HS in progress.
2) EPCOT still rotting - supported by glut&drink events.
3) AK? Pandora. Now what, given the acreage?

Dear wife and I go to WDW, 2x per year, eight days each. About 75% of our time is focused on the MK. When something else of value ACTUALLY appears? We'll hit it .

Again, All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Now - must admit: WDW has a serious issue.....
Again, All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

Just the opinion of my dear wife and I.... EVERYONE goes to the MK at WDW - because it is literally the only "real" park.

1) EPCOT - partially abandoned.
2) HS (or whatever the name is today) - half park construction zone.
3) AK - Pandora or nothing.

So, a REAL unpopular suggestion. NO MORE MK WORK. Fix, upgrade, the other three parks. MAKE them into something people actually want to go to.

1) HS in progress.
2) EPCOT still rotting - supported by glut&drink events.
3) AK? Pandora. Now what, given the acreage?

Dear wife and I go to WDW, 2x per year, eight days each. About 75% of our time is focused on the MK. When something else of value ACTUALLY appears? We'll hit it .

Again, All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

I do think the are making strides to that goal. I think the only one on your list I would not agree with is AK. It is so much more than Pandora. I love the Africa section especially the Kilamanjaro safari. I also think that AK has stepped up it's game with their shows. The festival of the Lion king is really good imo.

When every thing is done with Hollywood studio (2019, I think) it will be a major park again.

So I do think the Mouse world is on the right track. I wish though that they would do upgrades continually and not wait until stuff gets old and tired before the start revamping. so next year they will conceivably have 3 parks one could spend all day in so this would be a great time to start working on Epcot.

 

[Tinkwings]

I agree....I really like the AK and that's WITHOUT Pandora. I can spend a whole day there and finish with dinner at Boma and feel content. MK will always be my main focus no matter what, but I have avoided DHS for years and Epcot I prefer to do in one or two half days, Spending other half in MK....or even at resort. MAYBE I will like Pandora, not a fan of the movie at all, but curious about exploring it, I never wanted it there and would have preferred something else but it is what it is. I would love to see Dinoland become Indiana Jones themed and retain a period setting of 40's adventure....you could tell a good story and work the jungle themes in easy peasy with the wonderful foliage already in place. And yes years down the road when DHS is a full day park and the initial hype has calmed a bit I look forward to playing there.

 

[erasure fan1]

That only works as long as there is a legacy of goodwill that Disney can draw upon.

That is the real question, will the nostalgia factor ever go away. Disney is hedging its bets that this can't happen. But what they don't seem to understand is that you might not notice the erosion until there is a landslide. History is littered with examples of this.

 

[Cado603]

I miss the “Old Disney World” also (1990’s and the early 2000’s). It seemed that there was much more emphasis on presentation and service than on making a dollar. Of course, I miss cassettes, Howard Johnson's and the Plymouth. Boy am I getting old.

Notice that your dates match up with the arrival of BOB IGER. He came in and Ticket prices rose at first 2 X a year and then every year since with a decline in everything. I can't remember when I was there lately when the place was not cover with walls. I am glad for the people who like it this way. Not me anymore and FP I hate making plans 60days out and having to go off to a park now on that day as opposed to getting up and deciding what I want to do. I used to get up be excited skip down the steps going off to parks. Sometimes we actually used to say lets get on whichever bus comes unless we had been there the day before and get our FP for whatever ride we wanted and go on another ride with a short line. It is so sad I do not even look forward to it anymore. DVC so just book out of habit.