I think I might be done with WDW.

[kong1802]

Fastpass still comes down to a numbers game.

From what I saw - in mid February - fast pass is stretched to the limit already.

Here's how it plays...long waits/queues for fast pass booked 30-60 days in advance...very short "stand by" lines with 2-3 hour waits.

I'm not talking flight of passage, though it had it...I'm talking RNR, space, mine train, test track...and about 8 others just below 2 hours.

What's happening?

They have already increased the fastpass because they can't handle what they have BEFORE the new stuff comes. So the fastpass has become the "regular line" and nobody in the standby from 9:30 am to 9 pm is allowed to move.

That's all 4 parks...now. I know how operations looks and that's what's going on.

They have horribly underbuilt toy story...very popular ip, kid friendly...with small low capacity rides.

And Star Wars? Even worse...

They let the exit ramps off the Santa Ana dictate the size of what needed to be built in Orlando!!!

That is a catastrophic mistake...has anyone been able to confirm if iger has ever - in fact - been to wdw?
Were his eyes open?

...I don't want to be an alarmist...but this looks really bad up ahead.

You are dead on about FP.

Just go to Living with the Land (a ride that for the most part was a 5-15 min wait all day) from 10-5. You will see maybe 50-100 people in the stand by ride, waiting 30-45 mins while people arrive with their FP's and walk on.

They have made them a must have. They are retraining the visitors to think that riding anything outside of their 3 FP's as "gravy". I do not like the system. Competition is increasing even at 60 days out now, with the addition of the good neighbor hotels. I only have my own experiences, but rope drop is becoming increasingly crowded, as that's now the only way to get on anything built after 1998 without a 60+ min wait.

 

[spacemtnfanatic]

This is all 100% accurate and exactly why I haven't been to a WDW park now in nearly two years, despite living 15 minutes away and being a lifelong fan. The Living with the Land example is perfect. Other attractions like this include Haunted Mansion, Pirates, and Spaceship Earth. High profile D and E tickets with monster capacity that were always "doable" even when the parks were packed to the gills are now 45 minute standby waits on an average day. FP+ has absolutely ruined the guest experience. And I don't care what anyone "says", 3 attractions in a day is not enough. And I am not spending hundreds of dollars to stroll around and "take it all in." When an average day now posts holiday wait times, there is a problem. But again. 99% of the folks here will continue to drop a few grand a year on the place and just be content that this is how it is. I have voted with my wallet for 2 years now.

 

[John park hopper]

You are dead on about FP.

Just go to Living with the Land (a ride that for the most part was a 5-15 min wait all day) from 10-5. You will see maybe 50-100 people in the stand by ride, waiting 30-45 mins while people arrive with their FP's and walk on.

They have made them a must have. They are retraining the visitors to think that riding anything outside of their 3 FP's as "gravy". I do not like the system. Competition is increasing even at 60 days out now, with the addition of the good neighbor hotels. I only have my own experiences, but rope drop is becoming increasingly crowded, as that's now the only way to get on anything built after 1998 without a 60+ min wait.

IMO it won't be long before free FP end and Disney will be charging for FPs. Like Pavlov and his training of dogs Disney has trained the public to expect FP next step charge a fee and they will pay

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is all 100% accurate and exactly why I haven't been to a WDW park now in nearly two years, despite living 15 minutes away and being a lifelong fan. The Living with the Land example is perfect. Other attractions like this include Haunted Mansion, Pirates, and Spaceship Earth. High profile D and E tickets with monster capacity that were always "doable" even when the parks were packed to the gills are now 45 minute standby waits on an average day. FP+ has absolutely ruined the guest experience. And I don't care what anyone "says", 3 attractions in a day is not enough. And I am not spending hundreds of dollars to stroll around and "take it all in." When an average day now posts holiday wait times, there is a problem. But again. 99% of the folks here will continue to drop a few grand a year on the place and just be content that this is how it is. I have voted with my wallet for 2 years now.

It's tough...it really is...because it's hard to accept it if what you love is going away...

I think many of us struggle with it and those that shout us down will be behind us in the column soon enough.

But it's disney doing what they do best: steering the emotional response as a gateway to the wallet. The thing to really watch is the premium ticketing and selling small window "special events" in much higher frequency. That's the tiger stalking its prey from the reeds...

...the attack will come swiftly.

 

[bigrigross]

BUT, I guess there's a hitch (according to the FoxNews article I read on this Club Level pay-to-play extra fastpass option.) There is a stipulation that each guest buy a minimum of THREE days of the extra fast passes. So now you are talking $150.00 per guest, minimum.

That's what I was thinking. Wondering how it will affect the regular guest.

Yep, 150 dollars a guest for 3 days. That is 3 90 day Fast Passes and preferred seating for nighttime spectaculars. Just look at the cost of the dessert party for MK. Its almost 80 dollars a person to get preferred seating for HEA. Yet here I can get preferred seating for 50 dollars and a fast pass that guarantees me access to any ride I want to ride without having to worry. With Star Wars land coming, I guarantee you that the 90 day fast pass will be worth its weight in gold.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yep, 150 dollars a guest for 3 days. That is 3 90 day Fast Passes and preferred seating for nighttime spectaculars. Just look at the cost of the dessert party for MK. Its almost 80 dollars a person to get preferred seating for HEA. Yet here I can get preferred seating for 50 dollars and a fast pass that guarantees me access to any ride I want to ride without having to worry. With Star Wars land coming, I guarantee you that the 90 day fast pass will be worth its weight in gold.

I've got some magic beans to sell you...

So you're ok paying $125+ a day to get into an amusement park...and then you're ok paying $50 or more a day to actually use the rides in that park and see the parade?

...only on disney boards do otherwise rational adults look at that scenario and not think it lunacy (I'm judging myself as well...but I can step back and appreciate the irony)

 

[John park hopper]

Yup, the $200 dollar a day barrier will soon be broken--- admission plus pay to ride. As i postd elsewhere when can pay toilets be far behind -----no pun intended

 

[kong1802]

Yep, 150 dollars a guest for 3 days. That is 3 90 day Fast Passes and preferred seating for nighttime spectaculars. Just look at the cost of the dessert party for MK. Its almost 80 dollars a person to get preferred seating for HEA. Yet here I can get preferred seating for 50 dollars and a fast pass that guarantees me access to any ride I want to ride without having to worry. With Star Wars land coming, I guarantee you that the 90 day fast pass will be worth its weight in gold.

Well, you also have to include the $200 upgrade per night to CL from the regular room. So, $250 per day for those FP's and reserved seating.

Of course if you have 4 people in the room, its only $100 per person per day for the pleasure.....

 

[bigrigross]

I've got some magic beans to sell you...

So you're ok paying $125+ a day to get into an amusement park...and then you're ok paying $50 or more a day to actually use the rides in that park and see the parade?

...only on disney boards do otherwise rational adults look at that scenario and not think it lunacy (I'm judging myself as well...but I can step back and appreciate the irony)

I hate to break it to you, but value is in the eye of the beholder. And I guarantee you that people booking club level, will see this as a value. Just because you dont want to spend the money, doesnt mean someone else doesnt want the convenience.

Best example of this is getting hotels in big cities. Sure, I can pay 90 dollars for a hampton inn and then drive 20 to 40 minutes to get into the city. Or I can get a room at the Four Seasons for 700 to 900 dollars a night and not have to step foot in my car and be directly in the city. Why do people pay the markup for the three monorail hotels? Its because of convenience. Stop trying to put a number on convenience.

 

[bigrigross]

They must get taken at the car dealership when they are buying a car.

Very childish and unhelpful reply. I could call you cheap, but that wouldnt get us anywhere on this thread.

 

[kong1802]

We have reached the point where these extras are starting to bleed into the "baseline" guests' experience. And this definitely starts to hurt the experience.

Get to rope drop 30 mins before opening. See others going in early. "where are they going? They paid extra to get in early".

Go to ride the Liberty boat. Can't get on. See people get on. "where are they going? They paid extra to ride at this time"

Go to watch the parade. Can't stand in certain spots. "why can't we stand here? You have to pay extra"

Go to leave, see people staying/coming in. "where are they going? They paid extra to stay later"

There's hyperbole in here, and a lot of "worrying about others", but the fact remains. The extras are starting to become more and more "in your face". You start to wonder what you are actually getting for your "base" price of $100+........

 

[bigrigross]

We have reached the point where these extras are starting to bleed into the "baseline" guests' experience. And this definitely starts to hurt the experience.

Get to rope drop 30 mins before opening. See others going in early. "where are they going? They paid extra to get in early".

Go to ride the Liberty boat. Can't get on. See people get on. "where are they going? They paid extra to ride at this time"

Go to watch the parade. Can't stand in certain spots. "why can't we stand here? You have to pay extra"

Go to leave, see people staying/coming in. "where are they going? They paid extra to stay later"

There's hyperbole in here, and a lot of "worrying about others", but the fact remains. The extras are starting to become more and more "in your face". You start to wonder what you are actually getting for your "base" price of $100+........

And this is a business. Its just like any other hospitality business. Offer more to the people willing to pay more. Some people like convenience and that is what this is.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Yup, the $200 dollar a day barrier will soon be broken--- admission plus pay to ride. As i postd elsewhere when can pay toilets be far behind -----no pun intended

It's doubtful pay to ride will ever be a reality. It makes much more sense to keep raising the "All In" price and then upcharge for "special" events. They are most likely never going to make you pay to ride Space Mountain 3 times.

 

[kong1802]

And this is a business. Its just like any other hospitality business. Offer more to the people willing to pay more. Some people like convenience and that is what this is.

I never knew they were a business. And all these years..........

 

[bigrigross]

Where did I say anything to you? Who are you? I was talking to SirWalterRaleigh, not you.

You replied to the person who quoted on what I said.

 

[bigrigross]

I never knew they were a business. And all these years..........

Yeah, its a shocker that people will not think they will look at how to make more money..... GASP.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I hate to break it to you, but value is in the eye of the beholder. And I guarantee you that people booking club level, will see this as a value. Just because you dont want to spend the money, doesnt mean someone else doesnt want the convenience.

Best example of this is getting hotels in big cities. Sure, I can pay 90 dollars for a hampton inn and then drive 20 to 40 minutes to get into the city. Or I can get a room at the Four Seasons for 700 to 900 dollars a night and not have to step foot in my car and be directly in the city. Why do people pay the markup for the three monorail hotels? Its because of convenience. Stop trying to put a number on convenience.

You're not breaking anything to me...you're not making a comparable argument.

Selling tickets to parks but having a rationing system in place that doesn't effectively allow you to use what you pay for doesn't equate to the Hampton inn versus the four seasons.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And this is a business. Its just like any other hospitality business. Offer more to the people willing to pay more. Some people like convenience and that is what this is.

And there it is...right on schedule.

Nobody...ever...claims it's not a business. But as a business...the product value is free to be debated. Can't have it both ways.

 

[bigrigross]

You're not breaking anything to me...you're not making a comparable argument.

Selling tickets to parks but having a rationing system in place that doesn't effectively allow you to use what you pay for doesn't equate to the Hampton inn versus the four seasons.

Your whole point is that this cost extra and adds to the cost per day at a park. People are willing to pay for convenience. When you understand this, it makes it easier to figure out what Disney is doing. Its why valet cost so much. Convenience.

 

[Chef Mickey]

To be fair the A-E ticket system was basically a pay to ride. If you had more money or were willing to spend more you could purchase a whole bunch of E tickets.

When they went to the Passport system it became more democratic (or socialist depending on your view point). I thought that was great and it's been the system we've been under for 30 odd years so we have gotten used to it.

Now we are basically reverting to an A-E ticket system without calling it that. You basically have to pick and choose what 3 E tickets you want to ride with the Fast Pass system.

Of course when ever you give people something (passport over A-E ticket) it's always much harder to take it away (Fast Pass system) and can end up hurting your business.

I know about the A-E ticket system and it was scrapped in favor of the current system long ago.

It's an overstatement to say we are back to the A-E system. I constantly walk on Haunted Mansion, Pirates, and other E-Tickets with proper planning. The current system guarantees you 3 E tickets per day with minimal wait, which is an upgrade.