I did not know this...

[Hakunamatata]

Okay I just had a friend tell me that Target is "a bigger company than Disney" I told her she was on crack. She works for Target and swears that they are a more profitable companay than Disney. I still say she is wrong. What do you all think? Disney vs Target vs Walmart? Can they even be compared?

I dont think you can compare them. They may be more profitable per share of stock, but they are not bigger. Now, if they are a subsidiary of a larger company, that could be a different story. I have heard that they are partially owned by a French company.

 

[wedway71]

Im a Hardlines Manager for Target. Target was started by George Dayton the owner and creator of Dayton Hudson Department Stores.After doing very well they opened up their first discount prototype store and called it TARGET IN 1962.Up intill 1990 Target Stores ran under the Dayton Hudson Company and then in 1990 the Corp got renamed TARGET CORPORATION.Our national headquarters are in Minneapolis and we have about 1400 stores in the US.

Disney is in fact a bigger company as far as Sales and profit.Target might be bigger as far as employees.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Understand that each of these things comes down to accounting. The parks division of the Walt Disney Co. is a fairly stable and profitable division. One of the better in the company. However, how you divide that up can give you dramatically ranging gains and losses. Do park tickets cover operating expenses for a single park? no. The parks themselves may even run at a deficit if you jut take their operations alone. However, the resort as a whole is very different than this. I am sure there are years that WDW has run at little to no profit. Same with DL. Definitely with DLP. However, as a division and a single resort, it is doing just fine for the company. The profit reports don't (and can't) lie.

 

[lwalker8]

Don't confuse income with profit....this poster was never talking about income, only profits after costs of operations. In any case, the parks turn a profit every quarter, except the parks in Paris.:wave:

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

Disney wouldn't operate the parks if they made a loss year on year

 

[scottnj1966]

I was talking with my friend who is a former WDW CM, and WDW comes up in our conversations. I was a little suprised to hear that Disney World operates on a defisite. Meaning that the Walt Disney Company doesn't make a profit from Disney World. And after hearing that they spend $52,000 a day for each their fireworks shows alone, it seemed to make more sense. Just thought I share that with you.

They make a huge profit. I get the fiscal books of how they are doing every year.
Let me put it this way, the sale of pretzels alone bring in enough money to cover the fireworks and plenty more, and thats just selling pretzels and not counting the extra for that small cup of cheese.

I dont think most people can understand how much money actually goes thru WDW. How many Brinks trucks come back and forth into and back out of the tunnels.
Don't forget that everything at disney cost's more then the real world, that is just extra on top of the profit they would normally get.
3 bucks for a fountain coke, 2 bucks for a bottle. Just add up the millions they sell of them.

More than 50 million Cokes are consumed each year at Walt Disney World Resort. Guests also gobble 10 million hamburgers, 7 million hot dogs, 9 million pounds of french fries and more than 300,000 pounds of popcorn. Just add this all together.




Another thing to remember to give them another boost of profits, many of the rides have sponsers. That is less money they pay for keeping them running. GM, Kodak, Siemans, to mention a few.

WDW is doing pretty well.

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

Don't forget that everything at disney cost's more then the real world, that is just extra on top of the profit they would normally get.
3 bucks for a fountain coke, 2 bucks for a bottle. Just add up the millions they sell of them.

 

[charnockpro233]

Read thi

This should explain it all so far for this year

http://amedia.disney.go.com/investorrelations/quarterly_earnings/2006_q4.pdf

 

[100 Acre HS]

Small point of order, there is NO WAY that wishes costs 52 grand per night. Even with all the equipment and continuity checks that have to be performed every night. The cost for pyro may be high, but WDW is the single largest consumer of show pyro in the world, that tends to shed some of the cost of product. 5 techs x 8 hour shift (10 on a two show night) and you are talking about 40 labor hours per show. A saleried manager to keep an eye in it all, and push the button, even including skyshow and the backstage spotters you need when you shoot off perimiters you are still talking about a staff of 9...and because you can't have fireworks without music, audio central will even get a shout out. There really isnt that much to wishes, illuminations may be a different story.

 

[KrazyKowboy]

This should explain it all so far for this year

http://amedia.disney.go.com/investorrelations/quarterly_earnings/2006_q4.pdf

Yes it does.

And here's what Value Line Investment Survey has to say:


Disney's media networks may well continue to post solid profit gains in fiscal 2007 (began October 1st). The cable networks should continue to post strong results, thanks to increased viewership at ESPN, as well as rising affiliate fees and higher subscriber counts at the domestic Disney Channel. Meantime, at ABC, renewed programs including Grey's Anatomy, Desperate Housewives, and Dancing With the Stars are garnering strong ratings. Plus, the new shows in its fall lineup are largely faring well. Note, though, that heightened programming expenses might continue to restrain ABC's profits to some degree.
Theme Park attendance should remain on the rise. Disney's domestic parks ought to continue to register increases in visitation, though possibly at a slower rate than in fiscal 2006, given a slackening of the rate of economic growth. We expect hotel occupancies to persist at a strong level, allowing room rates and per-room guest spending to remain elevated.
A restructuring of the Studio Entertainment division is under way. That segment's workforce will be reduced by about 650 positions. A sizable charge for these activities was taken in the fiscal fourth quarter. Overall, we think December-period results at the Studio Entertainment division will be positive, driven by the DVD releases of Pirates of the Caribbean and Cars.
Disney will terminate its Mobile ESPN phone business. A charge of about $30 million will be taken for the shutdown of the underperforming service. The ESPN brand will henceforth be licensed to existing wireless providers. Disney will continue to offer family-oriented Disney Mobile.
Earnings growth is apt to continue at a solid pace. We forecast a 10% share-net advance for fiscal 2007, and double-digit percentage annual share-earnings growth out 3 to 5 years, as Disney should continue to invest abroad and in higher-growth businesses. It recently bolstered its video game operations with the purchase of Climax Racing. Disney shares are ranked 1 (Highest) for Timeliness. They also offer attractive total return for the long term.

 

[WDW Monorail]

Small point of order, there is NO WAY that wishes costs 52 grand per night. Even with all the equipment and continuity checks that have to be performed every night. The cost for pyro may be high, but WDW is the single largest consumer of show pyro in the world, that tends to shed some of the cost of product. 5 techs x 8 hour shift (10 on a two show night) and you are talking about 40 labor hours per show. A saleried manager to keep an eye in it all, and push the button, even including skyshow and the backstage spotters you need when you shoot off perimiters you are still talking about a staff of 9...and because you can't have fireworks without music, audio central will even get a shout out. There really isnt that much to wishes, illuminations may be a different story.

You are absolutely right, there is no way that Wishes alone costs $52,000.
It costs much more. There are 800+/- shells used and that does not include the separate Fanyasyland devices. If the average cost of a regular shell is about $55.00 and the average cost of the specially designed shells are about $70.00, then The average cost of a single show should be over $95,000. However, since Disney happens to be the largest consumer of pyrotechnics in the world, the price drops. Plus, you must add the salaries of the technicians.
It is not a bargain in terms of the masses, but it is not a bargain for Disney either.

Illuminations is an entirely different story.

 

[unkadug]

A little creative accounting practices could make it appear that the parks don't make money.

It all depends on who the accountants want to view the information (IRS, competition,the press every time that they raise admissions.)

 

[slappy magoo]

cameraguy, just between you and me (and anyone who has access to these boards and how many people could THAT be? 12? 13?), I'd go out on a limb and suggest that, yes, TDC makes a profit out of WDW somewhere. Even if the day to day operation of the entire complex loses money, it's all about the overpriced souveneirs. Felt and plastic mouse ears. $40 sweatshirts that would cost $20-25 anywhere else except that there's a picture of Mickey Mouse riding Splash Mountain as opposed to Mickey Mouse just waving. Giant "collectors' mugs" that cost pennies to produce, etc. etc.

True, there have been years when WDW have been in the red, due to recessions or tourism being down, 9/11 being a tremendous example. But unless your friend has access to all of WDW's bookkeeping, I'd take his word with a giant grain of salt.

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

A little creative accounting practices could make it appear that the parks don't make money.

It all depends on who the accountants want to view the information (IRS, competition,the press every time that they raise admissions.)

I'm going to school right now to earn my BS in accounting, and you'd be amazed what can be done with depreciation expenses.

 

[wedway71]

WDW's bottom line is way in the "black".WDW is the worlds largest resort destination.There have been times that profits and income have gone down like 9/11 but over the history of WDW is a big money maker for TWDC. There have been some rock times for TWDC as a whole with bad mgt and travel issues but WDW has been the division that has held TWDC together through the worst of times.To say WDW is a loosing money operation is not correct.

CNN.com------Nov 9th 2006-----TWDC PROFITS doubled this last quarter due to 3 main reason.Profits from tv,films and yes THEME PARKS.

 

[NASAMan]

Magoo is almost on the truth of this thread. I think that camaraguy either misheard or misinterpreted what his friend was saying, or his friend was not stating it clearly. I think you'll find that the park admission fee alone is not enough to cover all operating expenses for the park. Like a loss leader at a convenience store, it is priced to to get the maximum number of people to enter the park - if it was lower there would be much of a deficit, and higher it would reduce attendence. The profit comes from sales of food and merchandise.

I don't think it unreasonable that Disney keeps it's admission at what the market will bear, as with the other parks in the area, even if it then operates at a slight loss. It more than makes up for it in sales. So the parks might yield a loss, but the WDW Resort mares a tidy profit!

 

[DizWiz]

Disney just released the 4th Quarter and 2006 annual fiscal results on 11/9.

For 2006, the revenue from the theme parks alone (not including the media networks, studio entertainment or consumer products segments) was $9.93 billion. The expenses for the theme parks (employee compensation, capital spending--new attractions and the like, fireworks, etc.) was $8.4 billion, leaving a profit of $1.53 billion, or 15.4% margin.

For the entire Disney company, the revenue for 2006 was $34.3 billion, expenses were $30.9 billion and profit was $3.4 billion (9.9% margin). So, for 2006, the theme parks had a better operating margin than the rest of the company.

Here are the numbers for the parks and resorts segment for the past four years (in billions):

________2006 2005 2004 2003
Revenue 9.93 9.02 7.75 6.41
Expense 8.40 7.84 6.63 5.45
Profit 1.53 1.18 1.12 .96
Margin 15.4% 13.1% 14.5% 15.0%

And for the entire company (in billions):

________2006 2005 2004 2003
Revenue 34.3 31.9 30.8 27.1
Expense 30.9 29.4 28.4 25.8
Profit 3.4 2.5 2.4 1.3
Margin 9.9% 7.8% 7.8% 4.8%

You can read the story about the latest financial report here: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/custom/tourism/orl-disney1006nov10,0,7159833.story?track=rss

And for 2005 (the last full year of reporting), Target had revenue of $52.6 billion, expenses of $50.2 billion and profit of $2.4 billion (4.6% margin).