I CANCELLED MY DISNEY TRIP

[John park hopper]

I'd like to respectfully disagree with something you said here. Disney absolutely can increase supply. They can build more parks. They can build more attractions inside the parks (without replacing old ones). They can keep parks open longer and they can increase staffing inside the parks. They choose not to.

Instead, they have focused on building hotels (allowing for increased demand on the parks), they have shortened hours, and when they build a new attraction, they commonly replace and remove an old one. Their maintenance on older attractions has also completely fell off.

Agree completely with you and that is why my 50 years with WDW is over

 

[jloucks]

I'd like to respectfully disagree with something you said here. Disney absolutely can increase supply. They can build more parks. They can build more attractions inside the parks (without replacing old ones). They can keep parks open longer and they can increase staffing inside the parks. They choose not to.

Instead, they have focused on building hotels (allowing for increased demand on the parks), they have shortened hours, and when they build a new attraction, they commonly replace and remove an old one. Their maintenance on older attractions has also completely fell off.

Sure, that is completely true, but would that help with demand?

Trick question time. Let's say Disney added, oh, 5 new parks! 5! Would that help with park crowding?

The answer is no, it would not help. It would likely make it much worse actually. You would have more space for even more people to come and on top of that you would have even more to see and do drawing in even more crowds from all corners of the earth. This works mainly because currently crowd levels ARE a major controlling factor in demand. It would not be applicable if crowding was not a factor in demand.

It is an economic concept called "Induced Demand". ...and Disney swings a huge induced demand hammer.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

They can build more parks. They can build more attractions inside the parks (without replacing old ones). They can keep parks open longer and they can increase staffing inside the parks. They choose not to.

This is so important.

The parks should be open late (like 12 am late) every single day.

Disneyland park has 30 rides. DCA has 19 rides. Hollywood Studios has 9. Read that over and over again.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Sure, that is completely true, but would that help with demand?

Trick question time. Let's say Disney added, oh, 5 new parks! 5! Would that help with park crowding?

The answer is no, it would not help. It would likely make it much worse actually. You would have more space for even more people to come and on top of that you would have even more to see and do drawing in even more crowds from all corners of the earth. This works mainly because currently crowd levels ARE a major controlling factor in demand. It would not be applicable if crowding was not a factor in demand.

It is an economic concept called "Induced Demand". ...and Disney swings a huge induced demand hammer.

This isn't trying to be snarky, but I disagree almost entirely with what you wrote. Adding parks would absolutely help with alleviating demand. It might increase demand on the entire resort (let's just say WDW), but it wouldn't increase demand on any one individual park, or any single attraction. And while, yes, eventually demand can get to a point where supply is so limited as compared to demand that the value of service becomes so much less that demand stays static (we're there right now, btw - that's the point of this guy's video) ... but that doesn't mean more supply would necessarily bring more demand.

Put another way ... in Disney Resort experience, guest satisfaction will typically increase as the ratio of supply (things to do) is increased in comparison to demand (people at the resort wanting to do things). If you increase things to do (rides, eateries, shows) that can increase demand, but it will not necessarily cause so much more demand that the ratio of supply to demand decreases.

Put an even different way ... if you have 40 guests at WDW and 4 parks (as we do now), and you add an additional park, you'd have to add 11 more guests before supply/demand has gotten worse. That's a 25% increase in attendance. That's a very simple example. Now, let's say you have 10,000 guests at WDW and 100 attractions ... if you added one more attraction (without removing any), you'd have to see attendance go up by 101 guests before supply/demand is worse. That's a 1% increase in attendance. Obviously, these are rudimentary examples that don't factor in ride capacities, park hours, maintenance, staffing, optimal park capacities, etc - however, it does demonstrate the general principle that if you add things to do, guest experience will improve.

But it costs $. And right now $ is Disney's primary concern, not guest experience (and certainly not longterm guest goodwill).

 

[AdventureHasAName]

This is so important.

The parks should be open late (like 12 am late) every single day.

Disneyland park has 30 rides. DCA has 19 rides. Hollywood Studios has 9. Read that over and over again.

And then they scoff when people call it a half-day park. Same thing with Animal Kingdom (which is like a 1/4 day park).

 

[Oddysey]

Adam the Woo sighting in the comments section of that video. Seems that the he is a bit disappointed in the current product as well. Once an extremely passionate fan.

 

[COrunner]

Agree completely with yo and that is why my 50 years with WDW is over

I'm feeling more and more that is the case.

I believe in many of the old WDW films that Walt was saying the Florida project was granting them the gift of space. Maybe not new parks every decade but new and increased lands should be their ethos.

Part of the reason I felt the Avatar world was fast tracked/pushed was because of the pressure that Harry Potter at Universal exerted on them. My hope is that the Mario World does something similar or the Galactic Cruiser has them reassess just going all in on Pixar/SW/Marvel. I look at some 'canceled' projects and would love to see Disney explore those (villians areas or other rides which won't replace existing ones).

 

[jloucks]

This isn't trying to be snarky, but I disagree almost entirely with what you wrote. Adding parks would absolutely help with alleviating demand. It might increase demand on the entire resort (let's just say WDW), but it wouldn't increase demand on any one individual park, or any single attraction. And while, yes, eventually demand can get to a point where supply is so limited as compared to demand that the value of service becomes so much less that demand stays static (we're there right now, btw - that's the point of this guy's video) ... but that doesn't mean more supply would necessarily bring more demand.

Put another way ... in Disney Resort experience, guest satisfaction will typically increase as the ratio of supply (things to do) is increased in comparison to demand (people at the resort wanting to do things). If you increase things to do (rides, eateries, shows) that can increase demand, but it will not necessarily cause so much more demand that the ratio of supply to demand decreases.

Put an even different way ... if you have 40 guests at WDW and 4 parks (as we do now), and you add an additional park, you'd have to add 11 more guests before supply/demand has gotten worse. That's a 25% increase in attendance. That's a very simple example. Now, let's say you have 10,000 guests at WDW and 100 attractions ... if you added one more attraction (without removing any), you'd have to see attendance go up by 101 guests before supply/demand is worse. That's a 1% increase in attendance. Obviously, these are rudimentary examples that don't factor in ride capacities, park hours, maintenance, staffing, optimal park capacities, etc - however, it does demonstrate the general principle that if you add things to do, guest experience will improve.

But it costs $. And right now $ is Disney's primary concern, not guest experience (and certainly not longterm guest goodwill).

I will agree that, temporarily, 5 new parks would be more crowded than the old parks.

Temporarily. Everything would equalize in however long it takes a new ride to become not new.

"but that doesn't mean more supply would necessarily bring more demand." This is absolutely not true. I know for a fact tons of people, myself included, don't go to WDW because of supply issues (crowd levels). Increasing supply and decreasing crowds would bring us back in droves.... and then we are right back where we started with overcrowded parks. Induced Demand.

All of your examples have an arbitrary cap on guest counts. Don't cap guest counts. Disney doesn't, so why are you. The real world model is billions of people would like to go to WDW that the only thing stopping many of them is money and/or supply. You can add 5 parks, 10 parks, 20 parks, it doesn't matter. With billions wanting to go, you are going to have them packed unless you control the crowds with price.

Maybe it would make sense if you think of crowd levels in a scenario where everything was free, and work your way up. Can you agree that if you had 10 free parks (and free airfare, food, etc.), they would be packed? If you think 10 free parks would NOT be packed, then I am not going to be able to clarify this concept. However, if you do agree that 10 free parks would be packed, then we are off to a good start. Slowly crank up price and watch park attendance. Keep in mind there are billions of people on earth. You will have to keep on cranking price quite a way before demand decreases to a point where all 10 parks aren't packed.

I will also give you that at some point, dozens and dozens of new parks, airports, busses, and highways you could theoretically reach a supply balance with demand. But it would be a ridiculous quantity.

Lastly, look at how WDW draws in far greater crowds than Disney Land. For your observations to be true, it would be impossible for DL and WDW to both be packed. With all the additional supply WDW has over DL it should be a paradise of short lines and empty lots. Of course we all know this is not the case. Why? Induced demand.

 

[jloucks]

This is so important.

The parks should be open late (like 12 am late) every single day.

Disneyland park has 30 rides. DCA has 19 rides. Hollywood Studios has 9. Read that over and over again.

This (late hours) is an interesting, albeit complicated supply/demand modifier.

There is different demand for different hours of the day. Back in the old days, 2015, I noticed that from 9pm to midnight the parks were very pleasant. Not too crazy crowds. Not too crazy lines. Just perfect for those who abhor cattle-car crowd levels. We always closed the parks down.

Late hours, or even, gasp, 24 hours parks would do wonders to bring folks that would otherwise not go.

Sadly, there must not be profit in it, since WDW is not doing so.

This seems to also prove that consumers prefer crowds over late hours, which blows my mind.

 

[yensid1967]

In November 2020, I moved away from Orlando back to the Panhandle of FL. I went to Disney again at Christmas, once in March, and one more time in May of 2021 before my annual pass expired.

It was so much fun going all the time when I lived there, and I have since sorely missed it- so I have been toying with the idea of getting the FL resident deal or even another annual pass to go down occasionally- but lately many changing things have been dissuading me to do that. I recently came across this video on Youtube and it sums up perfectly many of those reasons.

I'm curious to hear your all's thoughts on this.

MattFree71...
So sorry you had to cancel your Disney. BUT son't forget that Orlando has other theme parks and other attractions that would welcome your money. Univerdal Orlando is offering $89/night for a 5 night stay, International Drive offers many not well explored attractions like ICON Park, Madam Tussauds, Titanic Experience, I FLY.

I am in the same boat right now of deciding how my next trip is going to be. It may be that we go to Florida and not go to anything Disney, depending on what MAJOR PRICE INCREASE in 2023 looks like and how it effects our plans. Disney Parks made 7.3 BILLION in its first quarter...guests should be demanding some things from them if they have that much money. But most of that money won''t be going into the parks, it will be going into the pockets of the executives that are making horrible decisions that have walt turning in his grave! I wish the Disney family had some control in the decisons being made!

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Lastly, look at how WDW draws in far greater crowds than Disney Land. For your observations to be true, it would be impossible for DL and WDW to both be packed. With all the additional supply WDW has over DL it should be a paradise of short lines and empty lots. Of course we all know this is not the case. Why? Induced demand.

The "why"? is because it doesn't actually have more supply. It has more parks. But it has approximately the same amount of rides spread over four parks that the Disneyland Resort has spread over two. WDW has tons of land and space and it doesn't utilize it (except to build more hotels). DLR gets held to a much higher standard because the majority of its guests are locals who are more invested in the product, who attend the parks several times a month and who remember the higher standards the company used to consider normal. Simply put, Disney makes an effort in California because it's expected to.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Imagine just going and enjoying the parks with your family, for your kids. Imagine just loving spending time with them.

I get it the parks have changed but does it really hamper how your kids feel about the parks?

Let me tell you one bit of truth. You are correct, but imagine something else. Go to anyplace with bright lights and colors, fun things to do and a joyful background music playing and you will get to spend that time with them and your family for a lot less money and remember that you are also in that mix. When I first went with my children it was in 1983. It was affordable and it was different, by a lot, than it is now and they remember all the details happily. The reason why was because I was having a good time as well. I wouldn't have had that time if I were feeling like I was intentionally being picked clean. One other secret, you can spend all day at an expensive venue and they will not have a better time than if you just went to a nice hotel and let them spend a day in the pool. Kids have a much lower entertainment threshold than adults. Disney isn't necessary. What it had turned itself into is a very, very expensive alternative.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Lastly, look at how WDW draws in far greater crowds than Disney Land

Magic Kingdom draws in larger crowds than Disneyland Park.

Disneyland Park draws in larger crowds than the other WDW parks during normal non-covid times.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Imagine just going and enjoying the parks with your family, for your kids. Imagine just loving spending time with them.

I get it the parks have changed but does it really hamper how your kids feel about the parks?

What do kids really want to do at Disney World? Most local theme parks have the same offerings for a lot less money.

If it’s just about the kids having a fun time Disney is a terrible value I would think.

 

[The Mom]

Magic Kingdom draws in larger crowds than Disneyland Park.

Disneyland Park draws in larger crowds than the other WDW parks during normal non-covid times.

The majority of guests have the Magic Kingdom down as their "must see" park, with several "must ride" attractions, so it is almost impossible to see/ride them all in one day. This was true in 1982 when I made my visit during the first month that Epcot was open. The MK was still crowded.

The same is true despite two other parks opening since then. Many people will skip a park, but MK usually isn't one of them.

 

[The Lochness Monsta]

I agree, I miss MY Disney. Even their movies haven't been the same the past 3 or 4 years.

 

[Living the Life]

This might be off topic but wanted to share. I was watching a Disney vlogger yesterday. I believe he was there on 2/13/22 or 2/14/22. Anyway, he went at rope drop to see if 30 mins is worth waking up earlier (in my opinion, no - needs to go back to an hour) While he was there, 3 MAJOR RIDES were down so, all the lines were over 60 mins. Splash Mountain (it had re-opened but down again) Thunder Mountain Railroad and Pirates of the Caribbean - all down. After all the years we've been going - we haven't see this before. This is truly unacceptable. I don't know if this is an ulterior motive of Disney or not. Also, another vlogger went and ride vehicles were closed off - Aladdin's, teacups and Astro Orbiter. If I were to go to Disney anytime soon, I would totally by-pass MK. Is this what we are going to see from Disney from this point forward?

 

[naynay3000]

Walt always said that the parks were going to be affordable for everyone to enjoy. Not the case anymore. I have been going for over 40 years. No more until things change. The Magic is gone. They are taking everything away and prices keep going up. If things dont change, then I find a new Happy Place. Poor Walt is probably turning over in his grave, seeing how the parks are ruined.

 

[mm52]

In November 2020, I moved away from Orlando back to the Panhandle of FL. I went to Disney again at Christmas, once in March, and one more time in May of 2021 before my annual pass expired.

It was so much fun going all the time when I lived there, and I have since sorely missed it- so I have been toying with the idea of getting the FL resident deal or even another annual pass to go down occasionally- but lately many changing things have been dissuading me to do that. I recently came across this video on Youtube and it sums up perfectly many of those reasons.

I'm curious to hear your all's thoughts on this.

I agree with you 100%. We haven't been since the pandemic hit, but reading about all the changes and charges I have to say it just doesn't appeal to me like it did before. We would go twice some years and we live in New England, so the cost included airfare, which we were more than willing to pay to have the Disney magic. I think the "magic" is gone now. I loved it years ago when you didn't have decided 180 days before what rides you wanted to go on, where you wanted to eat etc. We used to plan a few things, than just have fun doing whatever we decided on the fly.

 

[Graham9]

We have been coming to WDW since 1998 and have been 11 times, last was 2015. We were planning to come last year, but Covid stopped that. We were planning to come this December - until I looked at prices, the state of the parks, park reservations, parking charges and worst of all - Genie+.
We used to love being spontaneous, taking us to WDW parks/attractions as the mood takes us on the day. But that is no longer possible and I have no desire to drag a mobile phone around with me.

Our once-magical place, rich in pixiedust, is now dead and no longer holds any value or meaning like it used to. We even had our honeymoon there. Going to WDW now - as it is - will probably leave us feeling cold, ripped off and financially violated and we will sit back and wait to see if any of the Magic returns, if it ever does. We intend to return to Orlando at some point, but WDW will no longer be our "focal point" of our vacation, as we will stay off-site and concentrate on non-WDW parks instead. We may poke our heads into HS and AK, as we are curious to see certain things, but it will definitely be just a day visit, nothing more.