Huge Monorail expansion?

[Invero]

Originally posted by cloudboy
That's procedural. So guests have to fold their strollers up.

That's not really guest friendly of you. The only reason they have to be folded on the bus is because of the law. Guests do not want to fold up thier strollers if they do not have to.

Originally posted by cloudboy
Do the Novas get that kind of lifespan? That is cool. I know that mechanically the RTS's were good for many miles but the body panels on them looked like hades after a few years. Any idea what the lifespan is on vehicles like the Civis and Invero, ah Invero?

Well, that's all up to the maintenance department. With a good maintenance system, that won't happen. With a cheaper dept, then, it might.

The beauty of the RTS is the replacable panels. Easily and cheaply replaced, or just slap a new coat of paint. The Nova LFS has this feature, and NABI is now coming out with a CompoBUS that will make replacing damaged parts even easier.

Most buses typically get overhauled every 10 years, give or take. Since Disney takes good care of our buses, an overhaul might come at anytime between 10-20 years. Refinish the interior, repaint the exterior, and the bus looks brand new. Most guests cannot tell the difference between our 8 year old RTSs, and the 25 year old RTSs.


Would the Nova last 30 years? Well, who knows. The Nova LFS is really a poor example. It's a poorly designed piece of crap that needs to be driven off a cliff and put out of its misery. Thankfully, we're leasing them. The Gillig Advantage, which we will be recieving by the end of the year will be a more durable bus that would last the 30 years.

However... one of the great things about a bus, is that they're cheap enough that you can update the fleet more often than if you were to put down the cash for a more expensive fixed guideway system. So, this way, you can update more often, and go with the latest and greatest technology. Cleaner, more efficient engines, better designs, smoother rides, etc...

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by cloudboy
Oh, you are supposed to Work in the fantasy world and live in the real one. Hm, got THAT one all wrong.

 

[cloudboy]

Just pointing out aplles to apples, oranges to oranges.

Anyway, I realize that the panels issue is also one of maintenance. But I have noticed that almost any city I see the RTS busses running in thy invariably have some body pannel completely broken, are leaning way to one side, or are sagging at the front or back. I think nothing has done more to turn people away from busses then the condition most of them are in. Sure other busses get old, too, but I don't think any of them look that bad.

Agreed you can update more often, but in fact since you usually end up having to purchase so many more of them for the same amount of service, there always seems to be old ones in the fleet. Not to mention that the technology in something like a monorail certainly isn't as complicated as that in a bus, where you have to have all the steering components involved.

Any idea what regulations Disney runs it's monorails and busses under? I thought that being totally on property and unconnected they got around some of the regs.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Reedy Creek Improvement District governs the regulations that Disney has to fall under.

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by cloudboy
Anyway, I realize that the panels issue is also one of maintenance. But I have noticed that almost any city I see the RTS busses running in thy invariably have some body pannel completely broken, are leaning way to one side, or are sagging at the front or back.

RTS body panels can't really sag or lean... they're either affixed, or not. On... or off. And again, it's all about maintenance. If you have a crappy maintenance program, well, then duh, of course things will fall apart, REGARDLESS of whether its a bus or monorail.

Originally posted by cloudboy
Agreed you can update more often, but in fact since you usually end up having to purchase so many more of them for the same amount of service, there always seems to be old ones in the fleet.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. It sounds to me as if you're saying it's better to have twelve 20yr old trains, than thirty new buses, and ten older buses.

Originally posted by cloudboy
Not to mention that the technology in something like a monorail certainly isn't as complicated as that in a bus, where you have to have all the steering components involved.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Or are you pulling this out of your rear end?

Originally posted by cloudboy
Any idea what regulations Disney runs it's monorails and busses under? I thought that being totally on property and unconnected they got around some of the regs.

We run under the same Federal and State Department of Transportation (USDOT & FLDOT) regulations that everyone else runs under. In fact, you'll notice we have our FLDOT number posted on every bus. We do not get around the law... contrary to popular belief, Disney is NOT above the law. We can be pulled over by police and inspected by the DOT just like anyone else. Of course, unlike most of the off-site shuttle operators, our buses will actually PASS an inspection.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Just to add a side note here, i saw one of the local shuttle vans (Non-Disney) involved in a NASTY accident last Saturday at Bonnett Creek Pkwy in front of Old Key West. The victim had to be extricated, roof was cut off the car. I am unsure to the fate of the victim, however based on the condition of the car and a few things i heard, it very probably was fatal.

From what i could see, the car was headed (or came to a rest) facing northbound on BCP while the van was turning left out of old key west onto the BCP.

Also i'm unsure as to which vendor drove the van, except to say there was a Mears van pulled over about 30 feet near the accident site with people sitting by the side of the road.

 

[Bill]

I think the safety issue is much more valid... monorails are much safer then busses, hands down. And don't give us this about the monorails not being technically complicated. lol. They are equally, if not more complicated then a bus. However, I still see monorails in the future, not more bus fleets... I like monorails better. (It all falls into the me being CEO thing in ten years) :lol:

 

[marni1971]

Bill - when you are CEO, can you fly me over to be president of WDI?? I promise to vote for Monorails. :lol:

 

[cloudboy]

RTS body panels can't really sag or lean... they're either affixed, or not. On... or off.

I'm not talking about the panels sagging or leaning - the busees sagging or leaning. Geesh! Agreed it is a big think about maintenance, but almost every bus system I have seen with the RTS busses, at least some of them are having problems with the panels. INCLUDING a couple of times at Disney. Just like a car - if you see it that much you somehow have to wonder about the build wuality. This is not about busses in general, just the RTS busses.

It sounds to me as if you're saying it's better to have twelve 20yr old trains, than thirty new buses, and ten older buses.

Well, more like 20 old busses and 10 rebuilt busses and 10 new busses. Which take up a lot more time for maintenace since there are so many.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Or are you pulling this out of your rear end?

Temper Temper! And yes, they are not that complicated. Check out some of those links I put up earlier, particulary the Hitachi web site. Being really simple here, but the monorail is in someways just a series of busses that ride on a very narrow conrete road - since the road is a beam you can put some wheels vertically and then have directional control that way and save on sterring mechanism complications. Plus they run on electrical motors which are simpler. I would love to see them run on LSMs but I don't think the technology is there yet.

We run under the same Federal and State Department of Transportation (USDOT & FLDOT) regulations that everyone else runs under.

That is good to hear. Are the Monorails overseen by FRA (federal Rail Administration)? Does the FRA even deal with monorails or who?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Why dont they use taxis, that would reduce the number of cars and you wouldnt be stuck waiting for a bus, family groups could use vans, they could offer bikes for the fitness minded and helicopters for those with wedge to burn.

Alternatively they could motorise all the walkways, using solar power by day, and hot air at night to power it. The hot air could be provided by all the experts to be found in every attraction Q

 

[marni1971]

Nahh - give every guest a Segway!

 

[cloudboy]

How about those pedal cars fromthe Boardwalk? Put generators on them, so the people pedaling are also generating electricity for the park.

You could even do this for the dark rides - remember how in the eighties people were hoking up exercisew bikes so they could play Atari while they pedalled? You could have the smae thing for a ride - how hard you pedal determines how exciting the ride is.

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by cloudboy
I'm not talking about the panels sagging or leaning - the busees sagging or leaning.

Those are the air bag suspension units that you're talking about. When the buses sit overnight, an airbag might leak out air, but as soon as the bus is started, the airbags inflate up again. As an airbag gets older, it tends to get weaker, and might leak air under a full load, causing the bus to lean. This is not a safety concern for the bus, however is typically repaired as soon as maintenance is notified.

By the way, Monorails use air bag suspension as well, and are suceptible to the same exact situations. In fact, we've had examples with the monorails airbags getting weak, and causing the train to lean. This does become a safety issue for the Monorail due to the side guide tires, and station trough clearance.

Originally posted by cloudboy
Well, more like 20 old busses and 10 rebuilt busses and 10 new busses. Which take up a lot more time for maintenace since there are so many.

By the way, just so you know... the average age of a Disney bus is only approx 5-6 years. Once the new Gilligs arrive, the average age will be shortened to only approx 4 years.

Originally posted by cloudboy
Temper Temper! And yes, they are not that complicated. Check out some of those links I put up earlier, particulary the Hitachi web site. Being really simple here, but the monorail is in someways just a series of busses that ride on a very narrow conrete road - since the road is a beam you can put some wheels vertically and then have directional control that way and save on sterring mechanism complications. Plus they run on electrical motors which are simpler. I would love to see them run on LSMs but I don't think the technology is there yet.

Having been a Monorail Pilot for Disney, I can assure you, the innards of a train are a bit more complicated than you might think. Lots of complex computer and monitoring systems.

Originally posted by cloudboy
That is good to hear. Are the Monorails overseen by FRA (federal Rail Administration)? Does the FRA even deal with monorails or who?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[cloudboy]

Those are the air bag suspension units that you're talking about.

Actually a number of vehicles use Airbag suspension. I am not talking about Disney in particular here. All I am saying is that from what I have seen, the RTS (again, NOT DISNEY'S) seem to suffer a lot from that. More than other busses do. Which, and this is only conjecture, leads me to think that they ones they use are either undersized or of poorer quality.

Lots of complex computer and monitoring systems.

But that doesn't have much to do with how the monorail goes. All that stuff is related to seperation/spacing of the trains, maintenance issues, or safety issues. For some reason people seem to accept that busses don't need anymore safety issues than you r usual car but a train has to have it up the ying-yang...sorry, personnal comment there. Fact is much of that computer stuff is simply replaced by the driver of the bus.


At least the FRA is keeping their noses out of the Monorails. Sorry, did I say that? : )

 

[cloudboy]

Have there been any issues with lighting strikes to the monorail beam? I figure a good strike nearby could cause one heck of a surge through the power par. I always wondered how any system down south dealt with the frequent storms.

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by cloudboy
Have there been any issues with lighting strikes to the monorail beam? I figure a good strike nearby could cause one heck of a surge through the power par. I always wondered how any system down south dealt with the frequent storms.

Power outages, surges, strikes... not good at all.

The system is always going down due to lightning. We've also had numerous amount of times when trains crap out during the storms and have to be towed. Major delays, and major inconveninces. But guess who always is ready and comes to the rescue?

Originally posted by cloudboy
But that doesn't have much to do with how the monorail goes.

Actually... yes, it does.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Originally posted by cloudboy
How about those pedal cars fromthe Boardwalk? Put generators on them, so the people pedaling are also generating electricity for the park.

I had thought about harnessing all that methane from the waste that goes down the drain, but Dumbo would be spinning that fast it really would fly

 

[cloudboy]

Actually... yes, it does.

And how is that?