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How much "Ruin" do the parks have left?

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
I'm not quite sure about that. I'm not confident that Disney's market is as locked in as they think it is. It's kind of like The Last Jedi. There was a very vocal minority that absolutely hated that film and they were dismissed as being over-dramatic and not being the target audience, ignoring the actual issues with the film and world building of the sequel trilogy. However, what Lucasfilm didn't expect was the actions of general audiences. They killed interest in Disney's take on Star Wars and Solo bombed despite being a decent and entertaining film. They may not have been vocal about it, but the box office reveals how audiences feel.

I think Disney parks guests may be the same way. Sure, we're now in this period of "pent-up-demand", but I'm curious now that such poor attractions are debuting, if guests will start to take notice. Already, the premier of Frozen Ever After didn't do much for Epcot's attendance, and the same with Galaxy's Edge, despite Disney's anticipation for overwhelming crowds. I think come Epic Universe, Disney attendance will take a significant hit and we'll see a different story play out.
To clarify, TWDC will do whatever IT THINKS AT THE MOMENT is best for its most important entity, their shareholders. The question remains, are these seemingly penny wise, dollar foolish decisions actually good for the shareholders?

Well, let’s look at the stock price over time -

In the past year, the stock price is up 48 percent
In the past 5 years, the stock price is up 80 percent

All I am saying is, TWDC will do what ever it wants, whenever it wants no matter what we think.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
To clarify, TWDC will do whatever IT THINKS AT THE MOMENT is best for its most important entity, their shareholders. The question remains, are these seemingly penny wise, dollar foolish decisions actually good for the shareholders?

Well, let’s look at the stock price over time -

In the past year, the stock price is up 48 percent
In the past 5 years, the stock price is up 80 percent

All I am saying is, TWDC will do what ever it wants, whenever it wants no matter what we think.

That's naturally true, but it's fun to theorize what point, if any, will lead to lower attendance, lower profits, lower stock value.
 

SteveAZee

Well-Known Member
That's naturally true, but it's fun to theorize what point, if any, will lead to lower attendance, lower profits, lower stock value.
I'm guessing it'll be something external.... either Universal finding a way to steal the hearts and minds of long term Disney fans, or a more contagious/infectious pandemic once again closing parks, theaters, cruise lines, airports, etc.
 

Fsunolekrw

Active Member
What we are currently and have been seeing over some years now has happened to plenty of great companies before. The original driving force of the company is the visionary (in this case Walt). Their vision leads all decision making and the accountants job is to find the money, within reason, to make that vision come to fruition. Making money is secondary to creating something great, something special.

After the visionary passes sometimes there is someone who was taken under the wing of the visionary to be groomed and carries on their vision to their best interpretation of what the visionary would have wanted. Generally the accountants go along with this leader as they were handpicked by the original visionary. Producing magnificent content is still the top priority although people start seeing the money that is being and can be made if things are done (sacrificing quality and innovation mainly) differently.

As time passes though everyone from the old guard eventually retires and/or passes on. The next group that comes into power only sees the money that can be made and will do anything to maximize that at the expense of everything else. Everything else being what made the company and what it produced great to begin with.

The moral of the story is the pencil pushers should never be in charge of anything. If so everything will be cut and trimmed for the sake of the almighty dollar. When money becomes the number one driving factor then the magnificence of the accomplishments of the visionary will be lost and will gradually erode over time. The pencil pushers sole purpose (despite what they might protest) is to get the visionary what they need in order to fulfill their vision.

Or as Walt told the woman who was going to make the outfits for the animatronics in IASW when she told him it was going to be expensive, “I’ve got a building full of people who’s job is to find the money, just do it.”
I posted this in another thread. I still love the parks, the entire resort, as they still have aspects that show what greatness can be. At one point in time the property as a whole was as close to the idea of a “utopia” as has ever been built. I enjoy visiting now just as I did as a kid although I sometimes wonder how much nostalgia plays into it. I do hope that one day they find their way back to their original ideals.
 

graphite1326

Well-Known Member
Adam Smith once wrote that there’s a “great deal of ruin in a nation,” by which he meant that it takes an awful lot of bungling by leaders to bring down a powerful and prosperous state.

Applying this to Disney parks, and particularly WDW that I am quite familiar with, it seems that over many years those that run the parks are testing Adam's theory.

For me personally, there are things like the bus system, quality of food, the "woke"ning of the parks, and the many many $$ obvious cost cutting corners. They have just about run thru all of the "ruin" left in them for me.

So for you, how much "ruin" do the parks have in them?
I am probably in the minority but I agree with your statement here. In fact if I didn't have so many points built up on my CC I probably would not be going in November. My opinion, my choice everyone who wants to berate me it will fall on deaf ears (no pun intended). This will be my last trip for the 50th. Our first trip was on the 25th anniversary so this will be a good trip trip to end with.
 

Roy G. Dis

Well-Known Member
Just want to remind to my fellow Chicagoans talking sports here that us Sox fans are notorious for not showing up when the team sucks. Cubs fans used to like to tease us about this as they drank themselves into a stupor at the Wrigley Wine and Beer Garden festival they'd throw for 82 games a year.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
I'm guessing it'll be something external.... either Universal finding a way to steal the hearts and minds of long term Disney fans, or a more contagious/infectious pandemic once again closing parks, theaters, cruise lines, airports, etc.
TWDC has now learned it can survive a World War, the World Wide Web, 911, Social media, countless bad business decisions and now a global pandemic. TWDC is simply too big to fail.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
I am probably in the minority but I agree with your statement here. In fact if I didn't have so many points built up on my CC I probably would not be going in November. My opinion, my choice everyone who wants to berate me it will fall on deaf ears (no pun intended). This will be my last trip for the 50th. Our first trip was on the 25th anniversary so this will be a good trip trip to end with.

I dont think you're in the minority, you're in good company here.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
I am probably in the minority but I agree with your statement here. In fact if I didn't have so many points built up on my CC I probably would not be going in November. My opinion, my choice everyone who wants to berate me it will fall on deaf ears (no pun intended). This will be my last trip for the 50th. Our first trip was on the 25th anniversary so this will be a good trip trip to end with.
It was a good run. I too saw the birthday cake castle in person. After many, many years of WDW platinum APs for myself and my family, I literally do not know if/when I will set foot in a WDW park again..
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
You are 100% in the minority. Most people don't concern themselves with the stuff that's discussed on this board. Tens of millions of people visit Disney parks and will continue to do so. Even if every person on this site decided to never go again it wouldn't make a dent in their bottom line.

I think he means on this board.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
It was a good run. I too saw the birthday cake castle in person. After many, many years of WDW platinum APs for myself and my family, I literally do not know if/when I will set foot in a WDW park again..

My first visit was for the 25th, and we got a 25th anniversary picture frame and a photo infront of the castle. Now I just want a 50th frame with an updated family photo.

After that? I wouldn't return unless there was some kind of great promotion. Will definitely be visiting Epic Universe though, so maybe flip our usual pattern and spend our time around Universal and pop in to WDW for a day or two.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I am probably in the minority but I agree with your statement here. In fact if I didn't have so many points built up on my CC I probably would not be going in November. My opinion, my choice everyone who wants to berate me it will fall on deaf ears (no pun intended). This will be my last trip for the 50th. Our first trip was on the 25th anniversary so this will be a good trip trip to end with.
Actually that's what many of us who do love it actively encourage. We get berated when we say don't go. Never understood how folks continue to go and then simply come back and complain about how bad it's gotten??
I totally applaud you.
If you go anywhere and then complain that it's not like it use to be and keep going, that ain't Disney's fault
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Captain Obvious here again :)

For all the folks going to WDW for the first time ever, they will probably have a great time at the happiest place on earth.

While there are probably some folks on these boards who are doing research for their first trip to WDW, I presume most of the folks on these boards have multiple visits to WDW under their preverbal belt.

As we all know its the frequently returning guests notice both large and small changes.
The frequently returning guests notice the constantly increasing prices for everything.
This is enough for some folks to simply stop visiting; they no longer see the value in a WDW vacation

Some frequently returning guests simply roll with the punches and just keep coming; some multiple times a year, and that's OK, you unconditionally love WDW, besides I love to read all the trip reports :)

Some of these frequently returning guests may either stop or space out their trips to WDW, hoping things will "get better" in their minds.

Some will simply get priced out, never to return.

The fact is, for all the folks who stop visiting the DisneyParks, there are MANY MORE who can't wait to get "My First Visit" button on their magical Disney vacation..
 
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SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
I bet there were/are people that attended Disneyland in the 1950s or 60s that hated what the park became in the 70s and 80s.

I am sure there are those that visited Magic Kingdom in the 70s that would probably claim it was better compared to 1993 when I first went.
 
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Mousse'

Member
As I get older, more and more things in my life are getting crappier.
  • McDonalds (Remember how good the QPC was in the styrofoam clamshell? and the fries were reported fired with a touch of beef fat and sugar, as opposed to pure veggie and peanut oil now?)
  • Disney - When DVC was a real bargain (I got BCV at <$60/pt with all the incentives), and the parks weren't at what seems like 120% capacity all the time, and they didn't censor and edit things that only seem important to a VERY VOCAL <1% of people, and an expensive meal was usually a good meal, etc.... You couldn't wait for you next trip, as opposed to wondering how you were going to get rid of your points (...because you still have hope it might get better and aren't ready to give up and sell...)
  • Least common denominator thinking - Do we need to line all of the rides now with Plexiglas to prevent cucumber pillagers from jumping off the rides (See another thread on on the board about this... somebody in The Land...). And did I really have to pay to fix the lid lock on my cloths washer because people couldn't be trusted to run a washing machine without hurting themselves? (Sorry for the rant, but big bucks and I really think the societal cost to do things like that for the value they really add is WAY out of whack... Disney is a victim of it too with myriad of over signage, the taking away of the watercraft, and I'm sure folks could come up with 100's more.
  • US Government/American way of life - When you heard of elections in Iran in the past you never wondered for a second if your country's elections might not be any more legitimate/better than theirs, but now you at least take pause. When you wonder if any of what is said or announced or reported is in any way reliable. When you hear of something they've done and really wonder why they did it as no one could be that stupid or out of touch, right? (...and take your choice from 1 day ago to any time over the last 20 years...)
This board at least affirms I not alone in those thoughts, but I do REALLY wonder is this just a universal experience for everyone as they get older and see the things they loved earlier in life change? Or really are things just getting that much worse?

Rant over... Sorry
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
As I get older, more and more things in my life are getting crappier.
  • McDonalds (Remember how good the QPC was in the styrofoam clamshell? and the fries were reported fired with a touch of beef fat and sugar, as opposed to pure veggie and peanut oil now?)
  • Disney - When DVC was a real bargain (I got BCV at <$60/pt with all the incentives), and the parks weren't at what seems like 120% capacity all the time, and they didn't censor and edit things that only seem important to a VERY VOCAL <1% of people, and an expensive meal was usually a good meal, etc.... You couldn't wait for you next trip, as opposed to wondering how you were going to get rid of your points (...because you still have hope it might get better and aren't ready to give up and sell...)
  • Least common denominator thinking - Do we need to line all of the rides now with Plexiglas to prevent cucumber pillagers from jumping off the rides (See another thread on on the board about this... somebody in The Land...). And did I really have to pay to fix the lid lock on my cloths washer because people couldn't be trusted to run a washing machine without hurting themselves? (Sorry for the rant, but big bucks and I really think the societal cost to do things like that for the value they really add is WAY out of whack... Disney is a victim of it too with myriad of over signage, the taking away of the watercraft, and I'm sure folks could come up with 100's more.
  • US Government/American way of life - When you heard of elections in Iran in the past you never wondered for a second if your country's elections might not be any more legitimate/better than theirs, but now you at least take pause. When you wonder if any of what is said or announced or reported is in any way reliable. When you hear of something they've done and really wonder why they did it as no one could be that stupid or out of touch, right? (...and take your choice from 1 day ago to any time over the last 20 years...)
This board at least affirms I not alone in those thoughts, but I do REALLY wonder is this just a universal experience for everyone as they get older and see the things they loved earlier in life change? Or really are things just getting that much worse?

Rant over... Sorry

Things changing is the only thing that ever seems to not change.
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
You are 100% in the minority. Most people don't concern themselves with the stuff that's discussed on this board. Tens of millions of people visit Disney parks and will continue to do so. Even if every person on this site decided to never go again it wouldn't make a dent in their bottom line.

Even hardcore fans I know don't always agree with some of the consensus sentiments on this board. Honestly, even I occasionally find some of the complaints here to be a little petty or pedantic. But that is a common attribute in most if not all fan communities
 

Edward Jackson

Well-Known Member
I very clearly see where this is heading. The narrative has definitely changed, in that people seem to often tout how much better a Universal experience is, in that it lacks the stress of a Disney vacation. No need to get up at 6 in the morning to grab fastpasses, or now deal with the headache of the reservation system that is now unnecessary considering the lifting of safety measures. People also seem to consider it to be more affordable with more perks, as they've showed love to their APs and their hotels offer more than Disney as they continue to cut more and more.

Disney has also been premiering attractions that I would consider to range from mediocre to downright trash. Yet, since 2018, Universal has turned the narrative around on their attractions and have delivered some truly impressive additions. If the Studios in Florida can get an actual solid attraction or two and once Epic Universe opens, I think we're going to see a significant shift away from Disney. At that point, Universal will most likely be seen as a much stronger competitor because it'll take on the narrative of being a multi-day resort destination, or at least much more-so than it is now.

I agree with you as to a Universal vacation being more relaxing. (Yes, I also vacation at Universal) You realize the reason for that is that the combined parks are smaller than the Magic Kingdom. Universal has only 4 good hotels, other than that you are really dealing with low cost, low frills, no express pass locations.

The last two rides done by Universal are great. Both Hagrid's & the Velocicoaster are amazing. You want to see trash though, go on Fast and Furious. Universal is getting better, and Epic Universe should help, but that is probably four years down the road, while Disney will
have both the Guardians coaster & Tron up and going long before that.

Right now, Disney is far from "ruin" and Universal is still a ways away from a multi-park competitor.
 

Edward Jackson

Well-Known Member
I really think sports teams are the most apt comparison. They have the same level of devotion.

If Disney keeps penny pinching and politicizing and Uni keeps giving value, it will be very interesting what happens if Epic Universe is a home run.

Just to throw in to the discussion on Uni giving value. I had a friend at Universal in May. They were charging $600.00 for the Express Passes when purchased separately. (Some value) Luckily for my friend he likes to stay at the Hard Rock. Throwing around huge generalizations without really looking at the whole picture is just wrong.
 

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