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How much "Ruin" do the parks have left?

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Did you know that, aside from the plane ticket, a stay at the vastly-superior Tokyo Disneyland/TokyoSea is cheaper than a stay at WDW or Disneyland? Or so online vloggers have led me to believe.

That should tell you something. Talk about value for your dollar. The Robert Iger Company will continue to cut services, raise prices, do poor maintenance, and leave things broken as long as suckers still line up to pay for it. As long as that greedy pig is in charge of Walt's company, things are not going to improve for stateside parkgoers.

But hey, enjoy those celebratory cupcakes.
And there are numerous options for earning miles/points to eliminate the plane ticket! We used points/miles the first time we went (Dec 2018) (United NS flight from Denver that normally runs $2K per ticket). We were supposed to go back last year, and again we have enough points to cover the flights.

We did it "bucket list" style so we stayed 6 nights in the Captain Mickey triple room at MiraCosta (and a 1 night (arrival) at Wish because it was a Saturday and that was all that was available). It was about $600/night, but it was definitely Deluxe, and you definitely come out ahead with TDR Park Tickets vs WDW (we bought a 2 Day, had a day in Tokyo, then bought a 4 Day).
 

the_rich

Well-Known Member
Did you know that, aside from the plane ticket, a stay at the vastly-superior Tokyo Disneyland/TokyoSea is cheaper than a stay at WDW or Disneyland? Or so online vloggers have led me to believe.

That should tell you something. Talk about value for your dollar. The Robert Iger Company will continue to cut services, raise prices, do poor maintenance, and leave things broken as long as suckers still line up to pay for it. As long as that greedy pig is in charge of Walt's company, things are not going to improve for stateside parkgoers.

But hey, enjoy those celebratory cupcakes.
I've priced it out. It is most definitely not cheaper. The hotel prices in Tokyo make wdw prices seem cheap.
 

Dan Deesnee

Well-Known Member
Geez, that did not take long to de-evolve.
I was only listing what was important to me. Not trying to start a discussion or debate on any specific type of issue as for each of us it might be a different issue. Maybe for someone else they think there is not enough "social justice" in the parks and that adds "ruin" for them. I'm only wondering where people are at, not trying to judge them for where they are at (that you seem to be doing to me). IMO actual tolerance starts with accepting people (but not necessarily companies) where they are at. Does not mean you agree with them.

Some people don't want to hear anyone's opinion that doesn't line up with theirs. Don't sweat it.

I actually think the pandemic helped Disney. It gave them an excuse to slash budget and services that were costing them money under the guise of doing it because of the pandemic. It also created a massive pent-up demand. However I feel all this is very short-lived. I'm eager to see what happens in 2023 and beyond
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
I've priced it out. It is most definitely not cheaper. The hotel prices in Tokyo make wdw prices seem cheap.
Are you sure? I'm looking at the Venetian side rooms at the TDS hotel Miracosta. saturday night in july.... $840. US dollars or 81500 yen.
 

Dead2009

Horror Movie Guru
Did you know that, aside from the plane ticket, a stay at the vastly-superior Tokyo Disneyland/TokyoSea is cheaper than a stay at WDW or Disneyland? Or so online vloggers have led me to believe.

That should tell you something. Talk about value for your dollar. The Robert Iger Company will continue to cut services, raise prices, do poor maintenance, and leave things broken as long as suckers still line up to pay for it. As long as that greedy pig is in charge of Walt's company, things are not going to improve for stateside parkgoers.

But hey, enjoy those celebratory cupcakes.

I like cupcakes.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I was unable to track down the exact vlog which mentioned that trips to Tokyo Disneyland can be cheaper than WDW (I've been watching scads of travel vlogs lately); I think I saw it on the vlog TDR Explorer, among others. But I did find this article written by Andrew Long for the website Wandering Disney. Here is the pertinent part:

It’s Cheaper Than You Think

As I touched on in the intro, traveling to Japan isn’t as expensive as you might think. Finding round trip flights under $1,000 anywhere in America is easy. If you live on the west coast, flights can be found for under $500. Once you get there, accommodations, food and park tickets are all cheaper than what you can find at Disney World and Disneyland. Naturally, you can spend a good amount of money on this trip too but for those on a budget, traveling to Japan and Tokyo Disney Resort is within reason.


Here is the link to the entire article: https://wanderingindisney.com/2019/08/20/ten-reasons-why-you-should-visit-tokyo-disney-resort-japan/ (there are some lovely pictures in it).

Now this was written in August 2019. I don't know if things have changed much, price-wise, since then. But I don't know why they would...
 

Model3 McQueen

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
DCA died to me once Pixar Pier was announced. I was already heartbroken over Mission Cheapout. It's not worth 150 a day for me, plus any other family i'd pay for, just to visit the only high quality thing there - Cars Land. The rest is IP advertisement garbage.

Disneyland is losing me with Splash changing, Hyperspace Mountain, and some other boneheaded decisions like ignoring Tomorrowland completely in favor of bandaid-ing with IP, like High School Musical in the tomorrowland theater (this actually happened).

I do have a unique view in that i'm not as in-love with WDW attractions and feelings, as I am Disneyland's and DCA's. The only thing there I care about is Tower of Terror, but admittedly I don't even think WDI cares that much about it themselves.

I've reached my breaking point with Disneyland. Ill probably visit once every few years, no more AP for me - that is until more idiotic things are announced and prices keep increasing. I'm hanging on a thread with WDW. I wish they cared about upkeep and maintenance over in Florida!
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
You think that isn't expensive? With tax is $1000 a night.
nah, I was responding to your comment that Tokyo Hotel prices make WDW look cheap. Compare them on the same date, TDL Disneyland Hotel or TDS Hotel Mirecosta to a WDW deluxe and they are absolutely comparable. FYI, in Tokyo tax is already in the rate, or its just small tax of 200 to 300 yen per person, which is litterally a couple of dollars. Unlike USA hotels that add tax after the list price, The Tokyo rates do not significantly change from the listed priced.
I had a villa in akl with savannah view for less
Well, on the same date that I selected from Tokyo, AKL has a studio for $ 609. One bedroom was not available. Would have been interesting to compare. Anyway, I disagree tokyo prices make WDW's look cheap.
 

the_rich

Well-Known Member
nah, I was responding to your comment that Tokyo Hotel prices make WDW look cheap. Compare them on the same date, TDL Disneyland Hotel or TDS Hotel Mirecosta to a WDW deluxe and they are absolutely comparable. FYI, in Tokyo tax is already in the rate, or its just small tax of 200 to 300 yen per person, which is litterally a couple of dollars. Unlike USA hotels that add tax after the list price, The Tokyo rates do not significantly change from the listed priced.

Well, on the same date that I selected from Tokyo, AKL has a studio for $ 609. One bedroom was not available. Would have been interesting to compare. Anyway, I disagree tokyo prices make WDW's look cheap.
I shouldn't have said cheap. But it definitely isn't a savings compared to stateside. That's not taking into account airfare which can vary wildy. Im in ny and the flights are expensive to japan.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
I was thinking about this after posting, and I can't come up with an equivalent business scenario to what Disney has right now. There is a devotion to the brand that's removed from actual product.

The closest I can think of would be a sports team that's so beloved in a city that they coast on past glory, raise prices maniacally, and spend the bare minimum on on-field performance. And yet every game is sold out years in advance.

For further reading see: Toronto Maple Leafs, 1972-present.
 

Trackmaster

Well-Known Member
Some people don't want to hear anyone's opinion that doesn't line up with theirs. Don't sweat it.

I actually think the pandemic helped Disney. It gave them an excuse to slash budget and services that were costing them money under the guise of doing it because of the pandemic. It also created a massive pent-up demand. However I feel all this is very short-lived. I'm eager to see what happens in 2023 and beyond.

I think that Disney swung and missed with the pandemic. I'm a theme park junkie and travel around a lot to regional amusement parks, but the central Florida parks in my back yard. If you're not packed to the brim now, and getting crowds that you've never seen before, you're not doing it right. Disney took a gamble, and assumed that Covid would bring down civilization, so they took an ultra-conservative approach (or I guess in this case since the Republicans care a lot less about Covid, maybe call it a cautious, liberal approach?). They shut down construction of new rides, they furloughed, they shut down the fireworks for over a year, stopped people from buying APs, etc. I'm all in favor of Covid safety, but they took it too ridiculous proportions and just took the fun out of it.

If you look at the approaches between Universal and Disney, before Covid, you could argue that Universal was a park chain on the rise, and while Disney was faltering, nobody ever realistically thought that Universal could catch up to Disney's massive head start and brand recognition. But at this point, Universal is closing the gap. They took the opposite approach to Disney. They kept on trucking with construction, they kept employees on payroll and put them to work where ever they could, they hired like crazy, and they showed their appreciation to locals and AP holders. People who never thought much about Universal before are jumping on board and hoping that Disney can get back to its roots.

While yes, Disney may be getting a bit of a bump now (although with the reservations, the attendance is still probably lower than usual), its not where it should be considering the overwhelming demand for parks now. Even Six Flags parks are hitting capacity and selling Flash bands like they never did before.

Edit: Not sure if when people were liking this (thanks) read closely to see it, but I meant to say "if you're NOT packed to the brim now." Its a minor detail that I hope that people got by context, but it was a big part of the post.
 
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Trackmaster

Well-Known Member
I think that the problem with WDW is that they're just getting too greedy and relying on dumb customers to buy in. They want to invest in the restaurants, food, shopping, drinking, etc. You already paid $160 for a one day hopper, and they want to de-invest in the rides that you paid for, and just shove all the stuff that costs money in your face. I guess if stupid people will fall for it, they can make a lot of money on it. But I just wish that people stepped up to the plate, and demanded investment in the stuff that's included in the ticket, and not asking you to pay even more money. Either way, the shopping, food, and dining just isn't much of an investment for them either way compared to actually investing in real rides, entertainment, and experiences.
 

JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
Sure, I'm not happy with many of the things Disney has rolled out in the past few years. Cant say that it hasnt affected my trips. But I am still seeing enough good there that it makes it worthwhile going back. Massive crowds are the one thing that had been very irritating and started me thinking about how much of it I will accept. I'd say theres a lot of ruin Disney can do before I'll abandon them entirely. Everyone has their breaking point. The problem is that when one family does leave, several others enter to replace them so Disney isnt ever seeing an affect thats making them worry.
 

Pepper's Ghost

Well-Known Member
I think that Disney swung and missed with the pandemic. I'm a theme park junkie and travel around a lot to regional amusement parks, but the central Florida parks in my back yard. If you're packed to the brim now, and getting crowds that you've never seen before, you're not doing it right. Disney took a gamble, and assumed that Covid would bring down civilization, so they took an ultra-conservative approach (or I guess in this case since the Republicans care a lot less about Covid, maybe call it a cautious, liberal approach?). They shut down construction of new rides, they furloughed, they shut down the fireworks for over a year, stopped people from buying APs, etc. I'm all in favor of Covid safety, but they took it too ridiculous proportions and just took the fun out of it.

If you look at the approaches between Universal and Disney, before Covid, you could argue that Universal was a park chain on the rise, and while Disney was faltering, nobody ever realistically thought that Universal could catch up to Disney's massive head start and brand recognition. But at this point, Universal is closing the gap. They took the opposite approach to Disney. They kept on trucking with construction, they kept employees on payroll and put them to work whenever they could, they hired like crazy, and they showed their appreciation to locals and AP holders. People who never thought much about Universal before are jumping on board and hoping that Disney can get back to its roots.

While yes, Disney may be getting a bit of a bump now (although with the reservations, the attendance is still probably lower than usual), its not where it should be considering the overwhelming demand for parks now. Even Six Flags parks are hitting capacity and selling Flash bands like they never did before.
I think @Dan Deesnee meant that Disney used the pandemic as a way/excuse to massively slash their costs. Oh, we have to cut costs because of the pandemic and lost revenue. They're going to continue to use it as an excuse for the foreseeable future because they lost so much revenue due to the pandemic that [we] can't ramp up ride refurbs, new rides, or even park maintenance.
Massive crowds are the one thing that had been very irritating and started me thinking about how much of it I will accept.
THIS is the problem. Regardless of parks regressing into more of a carnival-style maintenance model (break-fix) and rides being off-line or breaking down, people are still cramming into the parks. It's exactly like @The_Jobu said... there's a zombie-like devotion to Disney regardless of the quality. When families decide to "go to Disney" on vacation, they don't consider the current state of the parks. They go based on the image that is in their head, or put in their head through commercials, advertisements, or even just their memories of the parks. They're just not the same place they were 10 or 15 years ago.

I also agree with Jobu's analogy of favorite home teams. Maple Leafs are a great example! Being from Chicago, I'd also offer up the following teams with unbelievable fan devotion despite several championshipless decades:
  • the Cubs from 1909-2015... a mere century plus of futility.
  • the White Sox from 1918-2004
  • the Blackhawks from 1962-2008
  • the Bulls pre and post-Jordan
  • the Bears 1987-
 
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The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
I think @Dan Deesnee meant that Disney used the pandemic as a way/excuse to massively slash their costs. Oh, we have to cut costs because of the pandemic and lost revenue. They're going to continue to use it as an excuse for the foreseeable future because they lost so much revenue due to the pandemic that [we] can't ramp up ride refurbs, new rides, or even park maintenance.

THIS is the problem. Regardless of parks regressing into more of a carnival-style maintenance model (break-fix) and rides being off-line or breaking down, people are still cramming into the parks. It's exactly like @The_Jobu said... there's a zombie-like devotion to Disney regardless of the quality. When families decide to "go to Disney"on vacation, they don't consider the current state of the parks. They go based on the image that is in their head, or put in their head through commercials, advertisements, or even just their memories of the parks. They're just not the same place they were 10 or 15 years ago.

I also agree with Jobu's analogy of favorite home teams. Maple Leafs are a great example! Being from Chicago, I'd also offer up the following teams with unbelievable fan devotion despite several championshipless decades:
  • the Cubs from 1909-2015... a mere century plus of futility.
  • the White Sox from 1918-2004
  • the Blackhawks from 1962-2008
  • the Bulls post-Jordan
  • the Bears 1987-

I remember for a time in the early 2000s the Blackhawks actually lost a bit of attendance. Quite the shock! I was hoping Toronto fans would catch on too but no luck. :D
 

Pepper's Ghost

Well-Known Member
I remember for a time in the early 2000s the Blackhawks actually lost a bit of attendance. Quite the shock! I was hoping Toronto fans would catch on too but no luck. :D
100% they did. They would sell 2 tickets for $12 for fairly decent seats. Most of the guys on my men's league team and me would buy tickets to see all the great players from other teams when they came to town. 🤣 Back then I could barely name 4 or 5 guys on the team, but I'd go to see the Wings, Flyers, Devils, Penguins, Stars, etc. We had to boo them, but we went to see how real teams played. Who wouldn't want to see Lemieux, Jagr, Lindros, etc when they came to town. It was a must!
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Some people don't want to hear anyone's opinion that doesn't line up with theirs. Don't sweat it.

I actually think the pandemic helped Disney. It gave them an excuse to slash budget and services that were costing them money under the guise of doing it because of the pandemic. It also created a massive pent-up demand. However I feel all this is very short-lived. I'm eager to see what happens in 2023 and beyond.
I don't have a problem with other peoples opinions, but the use of the word "Woke" is not only stupid sounding but it is used in a derogatory manner that tends to negate any legitimate stand on any situation. It is just another term used to not describe anything and confuse and sound evil. Perhaps "awaken to fair and moral thinking" might work better, but "woke" causes me to immediately move on. It is sort of like the geniuses that came up with "Defund the Police". It doesn't even come close to what it is supposed to mean, but it makes people angry when misunderstanding it is not corrected.
 

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