How Does Somebody Get an EV Parking Space at Disney World?

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
I am sorry, are you suggesting that people leave the park to move their car? To find an hour (or over an hour for MK) to move the car in between a lunch reservation made 60 days ago, lighting lane times that you woke up at 7am and paid for, and navigate show times? I understand being considerate, this just seems a little impractical.
I've done it. It's annoying, but I have done it. Until the amount of charging stations at the park reach parity with the number of EVs that are registered, you just do it.

Or don't. But don't be annoyed if your car gets unplugged by someone else when they see you're parked, plugged, but not charging.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
I've done it. It's annoying, but I have done it. Until the amount of charging stations at the park reach parity with the number of EVs that are registered, you just do it.

Or don't. But don't be annoyed if your car gets unplugged by someone else when they see you're parked, plugged, but not charging.
If Disney wanted to, the easiest solution would be to have these type of parking spots have a limited duration. Like 2 hour or 4 hour parking. You see these types of parking locations all over the place. And if you overstay your time, you are either towed or ticketed.

Otherwise, these spots are just normal parking spots which just happen to have a charger with them. I paid the same amount of money to park in them as I would have if I parked at a non-charging parking space, so I get the space for the same amount of time. If that is the case, there is no way I am going to be in the park with my kids, monitoring how long my car has been charging, and then dragging them out of the park, getting on the monorail to going over to the Transportation Center, moving my car, which will almost certainly mean moving back farther in the parking lot as it is now later in the day. Then walking back to either get on the monorail again or the ferry, to go back into the park. I know there is no way that I, or my kids are going to want to do that.

Nor would Disney really want you to do it. Disney wants you on property, riding rides, building up a thirst/hunger, buying food and souvenirs. If you were forced to leave the park after 3-4 hours to move your car, how many of those people are going to say, well I have to go back to the car and get in and drive it anyway, lets go back to the hotel and relax and grab lunch there. Or hey kids, you wanna hit McDonalds for lunch, and save the X number of dollars over a quick service meal. Or It's so hot in the afternoon and all the lines are long, lets go back and swim in the pool, and come back later tonight, which not only removes people from spending money in the parks during the afternoon, will also lead to some percentage of people who just don't bother to come back, either b/c their tired, or get too distracted having fun at the hotel.
 
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mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
If Disney wanted to, the easiest solution would be to have these type of parking spots have a limited duration. Like 2 hour or 4 hour parking. You see these types of parking locations all over the place. And if you overstay your time, you are either towed or ticketed.
Disney doesn't want the potential liability for damaging your car. If they towed you, you either really screwed up, abandoned the car, or you called for the tow.

With that out of the way, I think Disney should have enough paid charging stations proportional to EV registrations, or at bare minimum, a few rows with paid single 110V/20A outlets
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Disney doesn't want the potential liability for damaging your car. If they towed you, you either really screwed up, abandoned the car, or you called for the tow.

With that out of the way, I think Disney should have enough paid charging stations proportional to EV registrations, or at bare minimum, a few rows with paid single 110V/20A outlets
Why in the world would Disney, or any business, want to expand charging stations, based upon total EV registrations? Especially why would they want to do so at a Park parking facility? Disney isn't in the charging provider business. At most a few rows of paid charging stations might cover costs, but its not likely given current market conditions to be a revenue generating center.

As to towing, or a large ticket for exceeding a timed parking space, its not all that complicated or large of a liability. It happens in cities around the country every day. Signs re towage and waiver of liability for costs/damages help reduce costs. And for the most part any intention or negligent damages by the tow company, who will almost certainly be an independent outside contractor would insulate WDW from the liability.

Your talking about suppling what is currently a subset market (EV) drivers, who go to WDW (a further subset) who DRIVE to WDW (further subset) who drive their own EV or rental EV car (even further subset) who are far enough away that they are not just charging at home (even further subset) and who are not just going to charge at end of day at either hotel or residence. Its not a big enough demographic to worry about.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
WDW should look at this as an opportunity.

Just like everything else in WDW, provide the charging stations but charge an astronomical amount of money to charge their EVs.

They overcharge for water and soda, why not for this.

Also, they need to put the charging stations way in the back and not take the handicapped parking spaces.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Why in the world would Disney, or any business, want to expand charging stations, based upon total EV registrations? Especially why would they want to do so at a Park parking facility? Disney isn't in the charging provider business. At most a few rows of paid charging stations might cover costs, but its not likely given current market conditions to be a revenue generating center.

Allow me a second to scream, not at you, but because I did the math, to show that within a year, a charging station could be profitable for Disney. And then my phone died. So I'll so the breakdown quickly on my laptop.

Some numbers and assumptions.

A commercial L2 charging station like what Disney has costs $6k on the high end. But Disney is known to be stingy and not pay retail. However for this exercise, let's assume that it was a cold day in hell and Disney paid retail.

Next, a HIGH commercial electrical rate in the area would be 17 cents per KWH. Disney won't pay that, but again, let's assume. In fact, because we know that Disney charges 35 cents/kwh to charge, let's say it's a 100% markup, and Disney is paying 17.5 cents per KWH.

Now, let's assume that the stations get 8 hours of use per day. It's likely more given their well known lack of availability, park hours varying (but rarely going below 8 hours) and that Epcot operates 12 hour days as their norm - but let's work with 8 hours.

That's $15.40 per charging station per day in profit. In 392 days, it's paid off and is pure profit. And that's using my assumptions. Add in the very real possibility of greater than 8 hours of usage, or that Disney's markup is over 100%, and they could be in the green in under a year.

And this isn't taking into consideration potential 24 hour use by nearby resort guests who need to charge.

At most a few rows of paid charging stations might cover costs, but its not likely given current market conditions to be a revenue generating center.

Here's the thing, to keep on par with EV adoption rates both in Florida and nationally (approx 1% of cars on the road), a few rows is all that's needed. That's it.

As to towing, or a large ticket for exceeding a timed parking space, its not all that complicated or large of a liability. It happens in cities around the country every day. Signs re towage and waiver of liability for costs/damages help reduce costs. And for the most part any intention or negligent damages by the tow company, who will almost certainly be an independent outside contractor would insulate WDW from the liability.

Yet Disney has previously cited liability as their reason for eliminating services in which their CM's or contractors would do anything to or with your car.



Your talking about suppling what is currently a subset market (EV) drivers, who go to WDW (a further subset) who DRIVE to WDW (further subset) who drive their own EV or rental EV car (even further subset) who are far enough away that they are not just charging at home (even further subset) and who are not just going to charge at end of day at either hotel or residence. Its not a big enough demographic to worry about.

I'm talking about 1% of parking spots. That's it. Beyond that, it's statistically shown that EV owners are wealthier and spend more.

It seems to me that Disney should have enough charging stations to keep those people in the park spending money (and spending money to charge)
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Also, they need to put the charging stations way in the back and not take the handicapped parking spaces.

This I don't disagree with, however, the electrical connections are closer to the front than to the back. Disney isn't about to pay more to install them.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
This I don't disagree with, however, the electrical connections are closer to the front than to the back. Disney isn't about to pay more to install them.
Well, yes, Disney never wants to put out a penny more than it needs to.

I am not an EV owner, but given the choice between charging stations in the back of the TTC or Moana in EPCOT, I would choose the charging stations.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Allow me a second to scream, not at you, but because I did the math, to show that within a year, a charging station could be profitable for Disney. And then my phone died. So I'll so the breakdown quickly on my laptop.

Some numbers and assumptions.

A commercial L2 charging station like what Disney has costs $6k on the high end. But Disney is known to be stingy and not pay retail. However for this exercise, let's assume that it was a cold day in hell and Disney paid retail.

Next, a HIGH commercial electrical rate in the area would be 17 cents per KWH. Disney won't pay that, but again, let's assume. In fact, because we know that Disney charges 35 cents/kwh to charge, let's say it's a 100% markup, and Disney is paying 17.5 cents per KWH.

Now, let's assume that the stations get 8 hours of use per day. It's likely more given their well known lack of availability, park hours varying (but rarely going below 8 hours) and that Epcot operates 12 hour days as their norm - but let's work with 8 hours.

That's $15.40 per charging station per day in profit. In 392 days, it's paid off and is pure profit. And that's using my assumptions. Add in the very real possibility of greater than 8 hours of usage, or that Disney's markup is over 100%, and they could be in the green in under a year.

And this isn't taking into consideration potential 24 hour use by nearby resort guests who need to charge.



Here's the thing, to keep on par with EV adoption rates both in Florida and nationally (approx 1% of cars on the road), a few rows is all that's needed. That's it.



Yet Disney has previously cited liability as their reason for eliminating services in which their CM's or contractors would do anything to or with your car.





I'm talking about 1% of parking spots. That's it. Beyond that, it's statistically shown that EV owners are wealthier and spend more.

It seems to me that Disney should have enough charging stations to keep those people in the park spending money (and spending money to charge)
I do like the math, and the effort (and sympathize with the phone dying, my laptop battery is failing and someone knocked my power cord out unbeknownst to me and it just died mid meeting.)

From the math at least posted, I didn't see any labor and installation costs added into the mix, general infrastructure set up nor maintenance and general upkeep.

It also seems like the charging figures are base on 8 hours of continuous charging, which from past posts you seem to say doesn't happen as people are parking in these spots and not coming back and moving vehicles when they are charged, leaving dead times in charging.

But leaving aside the finances of it all, if I am Disney, or any business really, I am not motivated whatsoever toward any expenditures, let alone during a time when you are looking to save costs, towards a service/expense that is going to be used by 1% of any market.

If it gets to a point where a more significant portion of cars are EV, then you budget a capex expenditure and do it right. Heck maybe you do it on a valet lot type model where you are charged a premium for parking, you get tram service to park entrance/monorail, and attendants move cars when they are fully charged so there is no wasted charging time/slots. I just don't see market penetration of EV cars as moving the needle to spend anything right now.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
From the math at least posted, I didn't see any labor and installation costs added into the mix, general infrastructure set up nor maintenance and general upkeep.

It also seems like the charging figures are base on 8 hours of continuous charging, which from past posts you seem to say doesn't happen as people are parking in these spots and not coming back and moving vehicles when they are charged, leaving dead times in charging.
These next two I'd go partly anecdotal on.

The ones in the parks are Chargepoint, which sells the equipment outright and otherwise manages a payment and customer service network. Disney tends to do a lot of this stuff in-house, so I'd assume that they are installed and maintained by CM's who earn an hourly wage and this would just by one of their tasks for the day.

Meanwhile the ones at Disney Springs are Chargeup, which sells the equipment mainly to government entities, and are owned by RCID/CFTOD. Again, I'd assume that maintenance and installation over covered by an hourly RCID/CFTOD employee.

Now, the 8 hours goes by my anecdotal experience of rarely finding an empty one available. And while yes, you do see people parked and not plugged, it's the exception rather than the rule - most people are honest and are charging while plugged. Beyond that, the 8 hours is a low estimate, since people arrive before the parks open and leave after parks close, while the parks themselves are rarely open less than 8 hours a day. Meanwhile, all of the parks have nearby resorts with guests that can pretty easily leave EVs charging overnight while the parks are closed.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
These next two I'd go partly anecdotal on.

The ones in the parks are Chargepoint, which sells the equipment outright and otherwise manages a payment and customer service network. Disney tends to do a lot of this stuff in-house, so I'd assume that they are installed and maintained by CM's who earn an hourly wage and this would just by one of their tasks for the day.

Meanwhile the ones at Disney Springs are Chargeup, which sells the equipment mainly to government entities, and are owned by RCID/CFTOD. Again, I'd assume that maintenance and installation over covered by an hourly RCID/CFTOD employee.

Now, the 8 hours goes by my anecdotal experience of rarely finding an empty one available. And while yes, you do see people parked and not plugged, it's the exception rather than the rule - most people are honest and are charging while plugged. Beyond that, the 8 hours is a low estimate, since people arrive before the parks open and leave after parks close, while the parks themselves are rarely open less than 8 hours a day. Meanwhile, all of the parks have nearby resorts with guests that can pretty easily leave EVs charging overnight while the parks are closed.
Makes sense. If your doing it in house, you are going to need to have your installation, maintenance and labor costs wrapped into your charging fee. I am not sure if your going to have regular park side CM's working on this, or more maintenance repair type people, but either in house or subcontracted out I am sure WDW could find the personnel for it.

But I still go back to it being too niche of a market to really devote any time/money to at the moment. From 2 studies I saw, one by JD Power, one published (granted 5 years ago) by Hardmen et al, 80% of EV drivers prefer to utilize at home charging as opposed to paying for commercial charging stations. So if most EV drivers who are within range/day guests are charging at home, driving to WDW and then driving home to charge then your subset of subset, ect., of people who will be really utilizing the feature is further reduced. If your get any traction on legislation like the one proposed in CA to ban combustion car sales, then market becomes much more of a factor. But even that proposal I believe anticipated the ban not being in full effect until 2035, and that would only account for new sales, not cars on the road purchased prior. I am sure by the time EV cars become a higher percentage of the overall market, charging station technology will have undergone multiple changes. When it does then i think WDW invests in a bigger percentage of spaces dedicated to the feature, using the technology of the day.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
A minor update, Epcot has blocked off the two handicap spots to the right of the EV chargers and taken the signs down. Maybe they’re adding two more charging stations?

Also, I got Unicorn parking at Epcot today!

IMG_6695.jpeg
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
A minor update, Epcot has blocked off the two handicap spots to the right of the EV chargers and taken the signs down. Maybe they’re adding two more charging stations
Here’s pics

IMG_6701.jpeg

IMG_6700.jpeg

IMG_6702.jpeg
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Are they creating new handicap parking to replace these?
I’m not sure, but in practice on my experience, when they rin out of handicap spots, they start blocking the front rows of preferred to expand handicapped into it.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Are they creating new handicap parking to replace these?
I’m not sure, but in practice on my experience, when they rin out of handicap spots, they start blocking the front rows of preferred to expand handicapped into it.
An operational provision doesn’t overcome the need for permanently marked, designated spaces, especially since preffered parking is not provided with the same access aisles and minimum stall width. Whether or not they need to provide additional, marked spaces, would depend on the exact number of spaces still provided as a proportion of the total number of spaces.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
An operational provision doesn’t overcome the need for permanently marked, designated spaces, especially since preffered parking is not provided with the same access aisles and minimum stall width. Whether or not they need to provide additional, marked spaces, would depend on the exact number of spaces still provided as a proportion of the total number of spaces.
Then I’m sure they’ll add two single handicap spots to compensate for the two potential new electric spots that are up front.
 

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