How does one start a competition thread?

[mharrington]

Nice ideas!

Thanks.

 

[Sam Magic]

I agree that we have lost our ways...I'm currently writing some posts that hopefully will bring back the glory days of this board.

 

[mharrington]

Another reason with how I would have done a competition thread (to which a lot of people seem to be opposed) is how Walt Disney had approached the production of "Cinderella". According to Neal Gabler:

Walt was so reluctant to take any chances (the sort of chances he had taken on [the earlier animated films]) that early in 1948 he had the entire film shot in live action on the soundstage with actors mouthing the dialogue track. The aim was not to provide film to rotoscope, as the studio had done in the past, but, Frank Thomas recalled, "to see whether scenes were going to work. Would they be too long? Too short? Will it hold your interest?" This footage was then edited and sent to the animators on large photostat sheets to duplicate. The problem, said Thomas, was that the animators were not allowed to imagine anything that the live action did not present, since that kind of experimentation might necessitate changes and cost extra money[.] [...] The animators were even instructed to draw from a certain directorial perspective - head-on - to avoid difficult shots and angles. Thomas said he felt that "your feet were nailed to the floor."

So that's it. My format would have been something like using the live action as reference for "Cinderella", where rules are provided and people working there are to stay in the rules.

 

[DinoInstitute]

Another reason with how I would have done a competition thread (to which a lot of people seem to be opposed) is how Walt Disney had approached the production of "Cinderella". According to Neal Gabler:

Walt was so reluctant to take any chances (the sort of chances he had taken on [the earlier animated films]) that early in 1948 he had the entire film shot in live action on the soundstage with actors mouthing the dialogue track. The aim was not to provide film to rotoscope, as the studio had done in the past, but, Frank Thomas recalled, "to see whether scenes were going to work. Would they be too long? Too short? Will it hold your interest?" This footage was then edited and sent to the animators on large photostat sheets to duplicate. The problem, said Thomas, was that the animators were not allowed to imagine anything that the live action did not present, since that kind of experimentation might necessitate changes and cost extra money[.] [...] The animators were even instructed to draw from a certain directorial perspective - head-on - to avoid difficult shots and angles. Thomas said he felt that "your feet were nailed to the floor."

So that's it. My format would have been something like using the live action as reference for "Cinderella", where rules are provided and people working there are to stay in the rules.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean on how you would have done it...

 

[mharrington]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean on how you would have done it...

I would have created a lot of instructions on what to do. When they did "Cinderella", apparently, they so used live action that it denied the animators a lot of creativity, hence why, according to Frank Thomas, that the animators were "not allowed to imagine anything the live action did not present."

Along the same lines, my way of Imagineering projects would have involved a lot of instructions and guidelines on the project in question that it seemed that they would have been infringing on the participants' creativity.

 

[DinoInstitute]

I would have created a lot of instructions on what to do. When they did "Cinderella", apparently, they so used live action that it denied the animators a lot of creativity, hence why, according to Frank Thomas, that the animators were "not allowed to imagine anything the live action did not present."

Along the same lines, my way of Imagineering projects would have involved a lot of instructions and guidelines on the project in question that it seemed that they would have been infringing on the participants' creativity.

I think I get it. Its interesting, could be a fun way to do it

 

[mharrington]

I think I get it. Its interesting, could be a fun way to do it

Yes, but no one else seems to like it. They think I would be creating so many rules and instructions on what to do that it seems as though I only want them to do things that I couldn't do alone.

 

[Sam Magic]

Yes, but no one else seems to like it. They think I would be creating so many rules and instructions on what to do that it seems as though I only want them to do things that I couldn't do alone.

It's because it is restricting. Animators make art, you can restrict that. However, restricting a creative design process creates a sterile and stagnant environment.

 

[mharrington]

It's because it is restricting. Animators make art, you can restrict that. However, restricting a creative design process creates a sterile and stagnant environment.

Which is why I don't usually partake in these competitions. There's always so much changing going on. Like I said, I'm not used to being able to crank out things at a moment's notice. I'm not the most creative person in the world. Any idea I have always takes a lot of time, because I like to see them be as perfect and as final as they can be.

It becomes especially frustrating when it seems like I'm the only one who's interested in doing these things.

Another factor is that I'm a Disneyland person at heart and am trying to apply that to WDW. I know that place inside and out, backwards and forwards.

 

[Zweiland]

Which is why I don't usually partake in these competitions. There's always so much changing going on. Like I said, I'm not used to being able to crank out things at a moment's notice. I'm not the most creative person in the world. Any idea I have always takes a lot of time, because I like to see them be as perfect and as final as they can be.

It becomes especially frustrating when it seems like I'm the only one who's interested in doing these things.

Another factor is that I'm a Disneyland person at heart and am trying to apply that to WDW. I know that place inside and out, backwards and forwards.

You don't have to be so creative; that's actually the benefit of working as a team in a comp. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Let others do the brainstorming, and then work on writing the descriptions, or something like that.

As for the Disneyland thing... well, I've always wanted to start a Disneyland-only competition. I'll work on that.

 

[mharrington]

You don't have to be so creative; that's actually the benefit of working as a team in a comp. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Let others do the brainstorming, and then work on writing the descriptions, or something like that.

As for the Disneyland thing... well, I've always wanted to start a Disneyland-only competition. I'll work on that.

I forgot to mention, on that one Imagineering thread I did partake in (http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/spring-training-anyone.882981/), on the first project, which was about doing a food spot, with a whole storyline around it, I was really stuck trying to figure out what to do, and I wasn't always so sure of myself. LG16 said as much about that:

There were times in your submission where I could tell that you didn't think much of your own submission and you really shouldn't do that. When you submit something, try to be confident about it. It's your work and, win or lose, you should be proud that you were able to think of an idea on such short notice. Also, try to flesh out your ideas a little more. There were times that I wanted more from your submission but it just wasn't there. All in all, I see a lot of potential in you as far as challenges are concerned. You have the chops to be a good imagineer on these boards, we see that in your own threads, now just take what you have to the challenges. You can do it.

The thing is, as I said, I'm not the most creative person in the world. A similar thing happened in the next challenge, when we were challenged to create a new golf course. This is what LG16 told me and englanddg:

I think you both would agree with this, it felt like this post was thrown together at the last minute. That's fine, I understand that life gets busy (trust me, I totally get it right now), but that's just part of a competition. Sometimes things don't work out well and you just don't have a great week. I thought your idea would have been better had it been more fleshed out, but it wasn't, so that's what I have to go with.

The point is, I'm not used to being challenged to do new things like this, especially on short notice. It also didn't help when englanddg suddenly went AWOL on me on the next project and I didn't know about it (and I was castigated by RMichael21 for not knowing about it for myself, because englanddg's not posting should have been a big hint). As a result, on most of my projects, I got very low scores and low grades, which didn't help me at all. I was losing. And then the rest of the event was canceled, so I was finally free. Ultimately, my team had zero points.

And all because I'm not the most creative or imaginative person on this forum.

 

[Sam Magic]

I forgot to mention, on that one Imagineering thread I did partake in (http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/spring-training-anyone.882981/), on the first project, which was about doing a food spot, with a whole storyline around it, I was really stuck trying to figure out what to do, and I wasn't always so sure of myself. LG16 said as much about that:

There were times in your submission where I could tell that you didn't think much of your own submission and you really shouldn't do that. When you submit something, try to be confident about it. It's your work and, win or lose, you should be proud that you were able to think of an idea on such short notice. Also, try to flesh out your ideas a little more. There were times that I wanted more from your submission but it just wasn't there. All in all, I see a lot of potential in you as far as challenges are concerned. You have the chops to be a good imagineer on these boards, we see that in your own threads, now just take what you have to the challenges. You can do it.

The thing is, as I said, I'm not the most creative person in the world. A similar thing happened in the next challenge, when we were challenged to create a new golf course. This is what LG16 told me and englanddg:

I think you both would agree with this, it felt like this post was thrown together at the last minute. That's fine, I understand that life gets busy (trust me, I totally get it right now), but that's just part of a competition. Sometimes things don't work out well and you just don't have a great week. I thought your idea would have been better had it been more fleshed out, but it wasn't, so that's what I have to go with.

The point is, I'm not used to being challenged to do new things like this, especially on short notice. It also didn't help when englanddg suddenly went AWOL on me on the next project and I didn't know about it (and I was castigated by RMichael21 for not knowing about it for myself, because englanddg's not posting should have been a big hint). As a result, on most of my projects, I got very low scores and low grades, which didn't help me at all. I was losing. And then the rest of the event was canceled, so I was finally free. Ultimately, my team had zero points.

And all because I'm not the most creative or imaginative person on this forum.

NO ONE HERE IS THE MOST CREATIVE. There are countless times when I think I'm not creative, but I am a creative person. I may not be the best, but no one is. We all have strengths and we all have weaknesses. It is important to be confident in your abilities and your shortcomings. You need to realize that you can not do everything by yourself. Not to make this about me, but here is what I told Team Land about me:

Well as the saying goes the King is never late, everyone else is just early

Hello my go-by name here is Sam, I am a German, American teen that loves to have fun (this is e-harmony right?JK). Anyways I do like to have fun and am very excited to be working with you all. As a German AND American I can be pretentious and arrogant at times. And also due to my genes I am a perfectionist and OCD when it comes to completing tasks. I like to think of myself as strict, but fair and cultured. I like politics, Disney (No shot Sherlock), the Olympics, Europe, Australia, and history. This somewhat ride range of interest has allowed me in previous comps and projects to pull from a large source of knowledge and cultures to add extra details that seal the deal. I enjoy designing and urban-geo fiction, additionally acting and writing as well. This gives me the ability to create theatrical presentations, word descriptions just right, and creat stunning visuals for maps.

I like to use big words and terms some people are not familiar with. When it comes to graphic design I'm your guy. I am currently composing a portfolio of my works for you all to see. I'm good with names and slogans as well as ideas. Over the past year I have learned some nice techniques that can help us with projects.

I'm a moderate conservative and like reading the week.

And in case Monorail Red or Englanddg ask...I am the King of gifs. . I am currently a moderate Doctor Who fan and a huge HP fan.

I am excited for this season and hope we are not put in the position I was in last year. That was a messy and dramatic season...not to mention everything that followed suit.

I'm generally friendly, but can hold a grudge only if what you do to me off is truly wrong. Other then that I get over it and I'm friendly. So basically look to the future with decisions and how they can effect us all as a team.

When I lead I can be a bit like a tyrant *cue Little Hitler theme song* and some times I'm stubborn. Though I have changed and become more open minded compared to last year. Something I enjoy is finding the talents people do not know they have and I can be a very big motivator. So if you have any problems just PM me.

I would like to stay in contact with you all even when this ends. If your new to these then I will tell you right now that this group could become your closest online group in the world.

Well that's me in a nutshell.

Sent from my microwave.

I know my boundaries and I know I'm not the best. The key to be a great imagineer is knowing these things and be confident about them.

 

[Zweiland]

NO ONE HERE IS THE MOST CREATIVE. There are countless times when I think I'm not creative, but I am a creative person. I may not be the best, but no one is. We all have strengths and we all have weaknesses. It is important to be confident in your abilities and your shortcomings. You need to realize that you can not do everything by yourself. Not to make this about me, but here is what I told Team Land about me:



I know my boundaries and I know I'm not the best. The key to be a great imagineer is knowing these things and be confident about them.

Well... technically SOMEONE here has to be the most creative.

But only one person.

 

[mharrington]

NO ONE HERE IS THE MOST CREATIVE. There are countless times when I think I'm not creative, but I am a creative person. I may not be the best, but no one is. We all have strengths and we all have weaknesses. It is important to be confident in your abilities and your shortcomings. You need to realize that you can not do everything by yourself.

But when one of my teammates went AWOL on me, I was forced to do the project in question myself. Worst of all, the other people competing criticized me for not knowing for myself, that the lack of responses, either in the thread or in PMs, were a big hint. But then, my teammate was not very reliable anyway.

 

[Sam Magic]

Well... technically SOMEONE here has to be the most creative.

But only one person.

Obviously it's me...

 

[Voxel]

But when one of my teammates went AWOL on me, I was forced to do the project in question myself. Worst of all, the other people competing criticized me for not knowing for myself, that the lack of responses, either in the thread or in PMs, were a big hint. But then, my teammate was not very reliable anyway.

This happens alot, sadly. Team Air has had this issue this year.

 

[mharrington]

That may be true. I haven't had any problems following it, though. Honestly, I do think it's better than having a forum be bogged down by 5,000 threads all pertaining to the same game. It's probably better for those who don't play the games, allowing their open brainstorming threads to continue without being pushed because of the endless line of contest project, team, and discussion threads.

But I could get easily get lost in that thread. It's so huge, up to 70+ pages now! It is officially and literally THE longest thread EVER on this section of the forum. I'm surprised I'm one of the few here who know that.

Also, my way of doing things vs. the usual way might be comparable to Tony Baxter's experience with Marc Davis' Western River concept, that it could possibly work. According to Jim Hill:

Having spent his first few years at WED basically as Claude Coats' apprentice, Tony had trouble adjusting to working with Marc Davis. Claude was a gentle and generous man, willing to politely take the time to listen to whatever ideas another Imagineer had to offer.

Davis - on the other hand - was a task master. Marc had designed each and every aspect of Big Thunder Mesa and expected its model to meet all of his exacting specifications. Any suggestions Tony would offer to improve the attraction, Marc would immediately dismiss. After all, what could this 25 year old kid know about designing theme park attractions?


It was a very frustrating time for Baxter, who - after begging to be given some part of Thunder Mesa to do on his own - eventually ended up with the runaway train ride. Unfortunately for Tony, Davis had envisioned this piece of the proposed Frontierland addition as the show building's secondary attraction. Meaning that he would not allow Baxter to make Thunder Mesa's train ride so entertaining that it would potentially over-shadow or out-shine "Western River Expedition."


That's maybe not the nicest thing to say about Marc Davis. But please understand that Davis was an artist, and all artists have egos. Having labored for five years to bring "Western River Expedition" to life, Marc was determined that his dream attraction wouldn't end up being upstaged by some little runaway train ride.

 

[jdmdisney99]

But I could get easily get lost in that thread. It's so huge, up to 70+ pages now! It is officially and literally THE longest thread EVER on this section of the forum. I'm surprised I'm one of the few here who know that.

You're not one of the few to know that, you're just the only one who feels the need to persistently bring it up.

 

[JokersWild]

But I could get easily get lost in that thread. It's so huge, up to 70+ pages now! It is officially and literally THE longest thread EVER on this section of the forum. I'm surprised I'm one of the few here who know that.

Also, my way of doing things vs. the usual way might be comparable to Tony Baxter's experience with Marc Davis' Western River concept, that it could possibly work. According to Jim Hill:

Having spent his first few years at WED basically as Claude Coats' apprentice, Tony had trouble adjusting to working with Marc Davis. Claude was a gentle and generous man, willing to politely take the time to listen to whatever ideas another Imagineer had to offer.

Davis - on the other hand - was a task master. Marc had designed each and every aspect of Big Thunder Mesa and expected its model to meet all of his exacting specifications. Any suggestions Tony would offer to improve the attraction, Marc would immediately dismiss. After all, what could this 25 year old kid know about designing theme park attractions?

It was a very frustrating time for Baxter, who - after begging to be given some part of Thunder Mesa to do on his own - eventually ended up with the runaway train ride. Unfortunately for Tony, Davis had envisioned this piece of the proposed Frontierland addition as the show building's secondary attraction. Meaning that he would not allow Baxter to make Thunder Mesa's train ride so entertaining that it would potentially over-shadow or out-shine "Western River Expedition."

That's maybe not the nicest thing to say about Marc Davis. But please understand that Davis was an artist, and all artists have egos. Having labored for five years to bring "Western River Expedition" to life, Marc was determined that his dream attraction wouldn't end up being upstaged by some little runaway train ride.

What does it matter if the thread is 70+ pages? The people involved enjoy it and are having fun. Not every thread is gong to appeal to everyone....

And I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at with the Marc Davis comparison.

I'm also no quite sure I agree with the way you want to eat up a contest. If there are three teams, you'd basically be seeing the exact same concept three times, with only personal flourishesgiving each project some semblance of an identity. Instilling so many requirements stifles the creativity, I feel.

 

[mharrington]

Getting back to an earlier post momentarily...

Nice ideas!

However, I'm not sure how it can fit within the theme of a patriotic wartime atmosphere. Some of the songs, at least those from the "Maestro Mickey" section, are all classical pieces. I'm not sure how it can fit within the theme of a patriotic wartime atmosphere. I don't think classical pieces really fit the patriotic wartime atmosphere I'm going for here. I don't think they had huge classical orchestras in World War II. They had big band, yes, but I don't think they had classical symphony orchestra.

I could have the classical and big bands mixed together in one music loop, but I don't think they've ever had different styles of music in one loop before at a Disney park. A single loop, I think, would always try and keep it at one particular style.

So what does anyone think can be done?