Evil Genius
Well-Known Member
And the award for oddest Disney analogy of the day goes to...:ROFLOL:
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Horizons....
- Thread starter Tomi-Rocket
- Start date
And the award for oddest Disney analogy of the day goes to...:ROFLOL:
THEMEPARKPIONEER
Well-Known Member
Horizons is way better than Universe of energy but then you really couldn't take a good nap on Horizons. They could have had a 3d Imax show vershion for universe of energy in the land pavilion, easily have an intro like Snorin has before you walk in and that could of been the first screen show. Really... an attraction like that would save space, less matenence and less expensive, they then could have used the Universe of energy building for mission space, saved money and than have some lingering to overhaul Horizons.
Haunted Mansion is a great ride, Epcot 94 wasn't a bad time so I am assuming it Would have been good. The ominax scenes would probably be the thing to be changed.
Mstr Gra-c
Active Member
Both rides are great...I enjoy(ed) both immensely. The problem however lies in, as one poster put it, the "soul" of the ride...or possibly more accurately the inspiration of the thing.
M:S is essentially souless...it is without message, it has no educational merit. It is thoroughly entertaining and imho a wonderful ride...but it has no "soul". (Imho, the space travel theme is invalid without the acknowledgement of "how" and "why".)
Horizons was heavy on the "soul". It involved humanity and our desire to grow, to learn and to expand our "horizons". It was both educational and inspirational. It was high on detail and low on thrill. It was inspired by, oddly enough, the desire to inspire...everyone. (And it explained both HOW we were going to get there and WHY we needed to.)
IMHO, neither of these rides is bad. Neither is better than the other. And it is only personal preference that allows us to fight so vehemently for one or the other.
Here however is my beef with M:S...a beef that is not the fault of the ride or those that designed it or placed it in Future World. The beef I have is that it is the canary in the mine shaft...it is the harbinger of things to come. The result of our culture...we would rather have a cheap thrill than an inspirational trip into what our lives could be. We would rather have a tug on our gut and a light headed sensation than to learn the power in each of us to be better...live better.
In the end, they could have refurbed Horizons and put M:S somewhere else, but the costs I'm sure were prohibitive. I just hope that the public will once again clamour for such an inspirational and fullfilling ride, making a return to a ride like Horizons possible.
M:S is essentially souless...it is without message, it has no educational merit. It is thoroughly entertaining and imho a wonderful ride...but it has no "soul". (Imho, the space travel theme is invalid without the acknowledgement of "how" and "why".)
Horizons was heavy on the "soul". It involved humanity and our desire to grow, to learn and to expand our "horizons". It was both educational and inspirational. It was high on detail and low on thrill. It was inspired by, oddly enough, the desire to inspire...everyone. (And it explained both HOW we were going to get there and WHY we needed to.)
IMHO, neither of these rides is bad. Neither is better than the other. And it is only personal preference that allows us to fight so vehemently for one or the other.
Here however is my beef with M:S...a beef that is not the fault of the ride or those that designed it or placed it in Future World. The beef I have is that it is the canary in the mine shaft...it is the harbinger of things to come. The result of our culture...we would rather have a cheap thrill than an inspirational trip into what our lives could be. We would rather have a tug on our gut and a light headed sensation than to learn the power in each of us to be better...live better.
In the end, they could have refurbed Horizons and put M:S somewhere else, but the costs I'm sure were prohibitive. I just hope that the public will once again clamour for such an inspirational and fullfilling ride, making a return to a ride like Horizons possible.
stlbobby
Well-Known Member
I think you are absolutely right when you say the change represents the desire for thrills over enlightenment, but I would argue that it isn't so much that our society changed, but Disney underestimated the public's desire for the subtle, the informative, and the inspirational in the first place.
While I have always loved EPCOT it was perceived as somewhat of a failure or white elephant for a long time. It was joked about on TV and the general public never completely embraced it. It had it's ardent supporters, but they were a small segment of what it takes to keep a theme park running.
I also think you don't give M:S the credit it deserves. It is educational and inspirational. The pavilion is filled with facts, photos, and displays that when guests take the time to enjoy can really enrich the experience.
I think even the tone of the pre-show and ride impart the true mood of space flight. While it is one of the greatest accomplishments of mankind, and open to all sorts of romantic notions, it is in reality a somber experience undertaken by highly trained professionals. It is only in reflection that the moments become legendary and the people heroes.
Even the architecture of the building is awe inspiring. I love the way it combines the globes of celestial bodies with the retro look of a planetarium accentuated by the swoosh of a flying craft.
It may not have the sole focus of enlightening the horizons of mankind, but to call it "souless" is unnecessarily harsh.
DisneyLuver91
Member
I think was put rather eloquently and I admire what you say. I feel the same that Horizons really had a purpose and M:S is more of a ride. Not that I don't love it, but I wish we could have had both.
How do you know it would have? Given Disney's "great track record" (insert sarcastic tone here) of continually updating their attractions, that's quite a lofty assumption. If that's the strongest point you can make in support of Horizons, then I think you've actually strengthened MY point. In fact, given the fact that people are using "But it would have gotten an update...maybe even more than one update by now" as their defense of Horizons, that reinforces what I was saying about it not really being as great an attraction as people remember it to be. If it really were that great, why would it have needed updates? Why, because it doesn't stand up on it's own merits, except in many people's distorted memory of the quality of the attraction.
:veryconfu Where are these "charts" and "figures" you refer to? Who on here made charts and posted them?? Did I miss that part?
kaos
Active Member
Exactly- the problem is, there is more than variable when it comes to wait times- and you proved it later in your post with your PotC theory- you'd wait longer to stay dry. I'm not disagreeing with you at all- the wait times DO NOT show the popularity of the attraction- whether it be Rose & Crown on St. Patrick's Day or San Angel on Cinco de Mayo-
And I am one of those that refuses to wait 2 hours for Peter Pan- but I do appreciate those that do- makes it easier to get on other attractions
Am I the rare type that likes M:S even though it took Horizons place?
Yep, exactly!
THEMEPARKPIONEER
Well-Known Member
That is 100% true, the way I see it allot of people dont like to use their imaginations or keep their minds open to attractions like that. For me I would love to go thru a mesmerizing trip thru time. I miss the old spaceship earth because it was art, everything in Epcot was artistic and I loved Spaceship Earth so much because it was different and the last ride like that standing. The ending was an electronic masterpiece set to a great musical score and one of the greatest musical pieces I have ever heard. The whole ride had a great musical score.
Now you go up Spaceship Earth with the story of time and good music, you hit a beautiful star field and then you get this little screen show on your cart where they enlarge your head and pretty much out of nowhere the whole ride turns into an unrealistic joke. They might as well change the beginning to and replace all the anolectronix with bobble heads and puppet show backdrops and have a comedian narrate the ride making a spoof out of everything. It seems like those are the kind of things people are drawn to. There are so many people out in this world today that want nothing and a thrill.
I miss the great art work put into epcot. What bets me is what they did to Imagination. people likes that whole attraction better the way it was. I know this is a horizons thread but my main point is even Spaceship earth kind of turned into brain candy. They should of made that matterhorn ride before they even thought of making Mission Space. I would love to see a fun raft ride in the world showcase not to mention the landscape that would probably be added.
ChrisFL
Premium Member
Just the Facts:
Horizons - Involved showcasing several technologies and visions of the past and future, under the sea, in the desert and in space
Mission:Space - Involves only one technology, space flight
Horizons - Had 2 massive Omnimax style screens that were several stories tall
Mission:Space - Has a small screen about 12 inches tall
Horizons - Could be ridden by the whole family
Mission:Space - Is not designed to be made for children or elderly
Horizons - Had no fatalities associated with it
Mission:Space - Had 3 fatalities associated with it
Horizons - Never had to be altered or toned down for more guests to enjoy it
Mission:Space - Did have to be altered for more guests to enjoy it
Horizons- Envisioned the far future with whole space stations, undersea cities and reclaimed desert to make farm land
Mission:Space- Is a vision of the near future with a simulation of a space shuttle-ish mission to Mars
Horizons - Had very unique concepts not seen anywhere else
Mission:Space - Derivative theme based loosely on the "Mission to Mars" movie
Horizons - Focused on the family being central to the theme, the way Walt Disney did.
Mission:Space - Is more sterile and focused on giving commands
Now, just opinions:
Horizons - Had very good music
Mission:Space - Has decent music
Horizons - Featured a feeling of awe and wonder when you got off
Mission:Space - Features a feeling of queasiness, but you get a souvenir barf bag
Horizons - Involved showcasing several technologies and visions of the past and future, under the sea, in the desert and in space
Mission:Space - Involves only one technology, space flight
Horizons - Had 2 massive Omnimax style screens that were several stories tall
Mission:Space - Has a small screen about 12 inches tall
Horizons - Could be ridden by the whole family
Mission:Space - Is not designed to be made for children or elderly
Horizons - Had no fatalities associated with it
Mission:Space - Had 3 fatalities associated with it
Horizons - Never had to be altered or toned down for more guests to enjoy it
Mission:Space - Did have to be altered for more guests to enjoy it
Horizons- Envisioned the far future with whole space stations, undersea cities and reclaimed desert to make farm land
Mission:Space- Is a vision of the near future with a simulation of a space shuttle-ish mission to Mars
Horizons - Had very unique concepts not seen anywhere else
Mission:Space - Derivative theme based loosely on the "Mission to Mars" movie
Horizons - Focused on the family being central to the theme, the way Walt Disney did.
Mission:Space - Is more sterile and focused on giving commands
Now, just opinions:
Horizons - Had very good music
Mission:Space - Has decent music
Horizons - Featured a feeling of awe and wonder when you got off
Mission:Space - Features a feeling of queasiness, but you get a souvenir barf bag
Enchantâmes
Active Member
Win.
ERich2010
Member
As I'm sure the ones chosen to refute them will be as well....
ERich2010
Member
which is why this thread is 12 pages long
DMC-12
It's HarmonioUS, NOT HarmoniYOU.
As a side note to my snarky/sarcastic/mostly meant to be funny post on page one...
I loved Horizons... It was great... I still remember my first journey though it as a little boy in the early 80s. I remember not being able to decide on a final scene in the OmniMax theater, and my dad yelling at me to "just god damn pick one!!" :lol::lookaroun (I wanted to see them all.. I think I just hit the desert button though :lol: ) but I digress... :lol:
Horizons was great in its time. Yes I miss it. But I have also moved on (its a theme park attraction people, let it go, nothing lasts forever). M:S isnt anything super spectacular... but I still appreciate it and enjoy it, and look for the Horzions symbol on the gravity wheel and give a nod of approval, as I zip through the empty queue.
I loved Horizons... It was great... I still remember my first journey though it as a little boy in the early 80s. I remember not being able to decide on a final scene in the OmniMax theater, and my dad yelling at me to "just god damn pick one!!" :lol::lookaroun (I wanted to see them all
.. I think I just hit the desert button though :lol: ) but I digress... :lol:Horizons was great in its time. Yes I miss it. But I have also moved on (its a theme park attraction people, let it go, nothing lasts forever). M:S isnt anything super spectacular... but I still appreciate it and enjoy it, and look for the Horzions symbol on the gravity wheel and give a nod of approval, as I zip through the empty queue.
Mstr Gra-c
Active Member
Yes, I agree with you that the ride is done very well...I will reiterate that I really enjoy it. The queue is also done very well and all in all it is a fantastic peice of amusement.
I bring into question whether or not you meant that Disney OVERestimated "the public's desire for the subtle, the informative, and the inspirational in the first place." This would mean ofcourse that Horizon's missed the mark and assumed better of the public, which is what I am thinking you meant. Either way I find it very difficult, personally to blame a business entity for making a buck. (Personally I feel we need to stop blaming businesses for making money and get out of thier way...but I digress.) I believe they saw the change in the public from the 70's to the 90's, and replaced a ride that would take a multitude of capital expenditures to keep relevant with one that had more "thrill" (which fit the tastes of 90's America) and would remain relevant for longer, without the added capital. This imho, makes very good sense...it may not be what I or others would like but guess what...its not our park, its not our company.
Also, yes the queue of M:S does have some photographs and some interesting history but you put it best I feel when you said: "when guests take the time to enjoy". *hyperbole alert* Most guests, and this simply supports our earlier point, don't give a care about the pictures and are too busy tweeting to their "friends" that they are "like so pumped to get bombed at the Tequilla Bar". Its unfortunate. Horizons, gave you really no choice, the queue was fairly simple but when you got onto the ride...that was where the soul was...not the queue...and at that point you had no choice but to look, listen and learn.
Finally, I use "soul" due to a lack of a better noun...also, I am too lazy to think of another one...I have no thesaurus within arms reach. I feel it fully plausible to refer to something that is not intended to have soul (i.e. an amusement ride) "soulless". A soul is not a requirement of a ride. If I were to say that you StlBobby were soulless, that would be harsh. However, giving something that needs not a soul the honor of having one is the point. If any ride ever had a soul...that ride was Horizons.
misterID
Well-Known Member
But see, we don't know if extensive refurbs would have been necessary every 8-10 years after its major overhaul. It may not have needed anything bigger than what the other attractions receive.
stlbobby
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right that most guests don't want to learn, especially when they are on vacation at an amusement park, and that's how most guests view EPCOT, as an amusement park. Your argument is the real problem with Horizons, most people don't want to learn. So when they rode Horizons, and several other original EPCOT attractions, they were either board or outright angry that Disney would try and foist learning on them. It gave Horizons, more than any other pavilion, a narrowly focussed group of fans--people that actually wanted to learn.
WDW realized this and adjusted their approach. Now pavilions include crowd pleasers for mass consumption--Nemo and Friends, M:S ride, and Soarin'--but they also have the information there for those willing to learn. I actually like this approach better. I get to have a thrill and learn some things.
I'm not saying Horizons was bad. I loved the ride, but I understand why it was scrapped along with the entire approach it represented. I also think people that hate M:S just because it replace Horizons are just being stubborn and silly.
Finally check this out: http://thesaurus.com/
ChrisFL
Premium Member
So you're saying everyone who rode Horizons was either bored or angry? "OMG, not learning ...on noes!!!"....please.
That is a really bad argument. Horizons wasn't giving math lessons or quizzing people, I mean seriously...it only showed what was possible in the future and how we can live a better life...from what you're saying, I'm actually questioning whether you actually DID ride it
stlbobby
Well-Known Member
So you're saying everyone who rode Horizons was either bored or angry? "OMG, not learning ...on noes!!!"....please.
That is a really bad argument. Horizons wasn't giving math lessons or quizzing people, I mean seriously...it only showed what was possible in the future and how we can live a better life...from what you're saying, I'm actually questioning whether you actually DID ride it
Wow that's not what I said at all.
I never said everyone who road it was bored or angry. I said many were, in agreement with another poster who said people don't choose to learn.
I am also not the only one to contend that Horizons was a learning and enlightening experience. It has been stated many times on this thread and through out these forums, usually by it's most ardent supporters.
The biggest criticism of EPCOT center in its early years was it was more museum than an amusement park. That it wasn't about thrills and entertainment, but about exploring and expanding your outlook. This is what lead to low attendance and eventual overhaul. It is also what the posters on these boards who lament the loss of the original spirit of EPCOT miss.
I also do not appreciate being called a liar.