Horizons

[Astro_Digital]

You know I am looking at my Horizons screen saver, I really miss Horizons and E.P.C.O.T. Center.

To me the 80s version blows away the modern Epcot.

I guess it is strange so many fans and yet attendance was not at Horizons. I remember riding it the last time when it was seasonal. I walked right from the exit to the car twice, the 3rd time the CM said I want to ride it again just say on it.

Sigh....

My question is this, did Horizons get demolished because Disney wanted something new or was it just because nobody rode it?

 

[Victor]

A combination of low attendance, the loss of GE as sponsor, and the fact the attraction was becoming a bit outdated, was the cause of Horizon's sad departure.

 

[WDW John]

I seem to remember a fatal structural flaw that could not be easily repaired so demolition and rebuild was the answer. If you're gonna rebuild, make something new...

 

[Frank Stallone]

Combination of a few things, mentioned above by Victor. It simply was not as popular as people would like to think it was.

 

[Victor]

I seem to remember a fatal structural flaw that could not be easily repaired so demolition and rebuild was the answer. If you're gonna rebuild, make something new...

Yeah, a sinkhole appeared around 98 I think. Problems with the roof emerged as well. The problems could have been fixed, but it would have been very costly and time consuming.

 

[jmvd20]

Structural problems were not a cause for Horizons demolition, this is simply a myth and urban legend that has been going on for years.

No sinkhole, the ride was not "tearing" the structure apart and it was not sinking into the abyss... these are simply myths and legends.

 

[muteki]

I would think that if a sinkhole existed it would have affected the construction of SPACE in Horizons place. And I never quite understand the "out-dated" sentiment, as the subject of the ride was still decades ahead of even todays standards. Even today, there is very little subject matter in Epcot that is truly forward thinking. Most attractions cover up to present day tech, with the exception being The Land's still-out-there farming techniques.

That is one thing that made Horizons unique for me, was that it was the only ride at Epcot that looked toward the future. This is even more true with todays Epcot.

Also, I wouldn't take this particular communities sentiment toward the ride as a good sample for the whole WDW visiting population. From what I have seen so far, most here offer a more "refined taste" than the typical WDW goer

 

[Victor]

Structural problems were not a cause for Horizons demolition, this is simply a myth and urban legend that has been going on for years.

No sinkhole, the ride was not "tearing" the structure apart and it was not sinking into the abyss... these are simply myths and legends.

A myth that the number one site for Horizons info, horizons1.com, claims to be true?

I never thought that structural problems were the cause of Horizons going bye-bye either. I'm not even sure there were structural problems. Again, this is just what's been said. If all that talk is indeed myth, where and why did it start?

 

[Victor]

I would think that if a sinkhole existed it would have affected the construction of SPACE in Horizons place.

They apparently filled it in and put some reinforcement in there. Again, that's if there really was a sinkhole.

And I never quite understand the "out-dated" sentiment, as the subject of the ride was still decades ahead of even todays standards. Even today, there is very little subject matter in Epcot that is truly forward thinking.

The subject wasn't outdated, but the presentation was. It was starting to look very 80's, and the year 2000 was fast approaching. To me, that's not a big deal, I'm a sucker for nostalgia. Of course the outdated issue could have been fixed with a rehab.

 

[raven]

No sink hole, no structuring problems, here is the truth:

WDI wanted to build a new Space themed attraction somewhere in Future World. Horizons was the obvious choice due to low guest flow. A new space pavilion was actually planned to go into the Horizons building complete with a walk-thru gravity wheel, mirror maze, simulators and a space walk area (concept art is still posted backstage, I've seen it many times). The choice to tear down the building came from Eisner because imagineers had a heck of a time trying to retrofit Test Track into the old WOM building. It was more work to retrofit the attraction than it was to tear down and build a new building. This is where the "structure problem" rumor started. It then expanded to a "sink hole" rumor but neither were true.

 

[jmvd20]

A myth that the number one site for Horizons info, horizons1.com, claims to be true?

I never thought that structural problems were the cause of Horizons going bye-bye either. I'm not even sure there were structural problems. Again, this is just what's been said. If all that talk is indeed myth, where and why did it start?

The Horizons1 site uses a quote from WDWmagic where someone claims that staff were pulled out of the building because of how bad the structural problems were. Also I have seen on some sites that they used images of a large area of excavated soil to further the idea of a sinkhole.

Based upon this we have Horizons1 claiming and unnamed source posting on WDWMagic is proof that there were structural problems - could have been a bus driver but who knows...

The second piece deals with core drilling and excavating equipment showing up on site and a large area being excavated near the "core" of the Horizons building. This was not a sinkhole but more likley the excavation site for the removal of the footers that once supported the core of Horizons. Most likely this rumor was started by people who simply do not know what a sinkhole is, or how buildings are constructed, or what equipment is used for removing buildings.

Above and beyond this there are numerous sites around the web that have pictures of the building being demolished - not a single pictures shows any signs of a sinkhole nor stress damage nor signs of a majorly leaking roof. It would be very very unlikely that such massive problems existed yet no evidence was captured on any of the pictures that I have seen.

Lastly let's examine some of the causes of the structural problems.

1.) A roof leak - do you know how long it would take for a roof leak to oxidize the steel supports in the building to the point repairs weren't reasonable? Trust me, this scenario doesn't even deserve serious consideration.

2.) The ride put too much stress on the building!! This is one of my favorites, an omnimover going 2 MPH was "tearing" the building apart. Not feasable to say the least.

3.) A sinkhole - Out of the three scenarios this is the most plausible, however there is no evidence of one opening up under the building based upon all of the demolition pictures. Believe me if a sinkhole were there someone would have captured a picture of it unless Disney repaired it prior to demolition commencing - if that were the case why tear the building down due to a sinkhole repair.

And finally the cost of repairing a sinkhole was too much so they tore down a major structure yet built another right on top of it. From a construction estimating standpoint this is ridiculous.

All of the evidence point towards a truth that many may not want to believe - Disney didn't want Horizons anymore. I think the myths and legends surfaced to try to justify either a bad decision, by Horizons fans to ease the pain of its demolition, or by people that simply do not know anything about construction...

 

[raven]

There is a current sink hole issue on property but it's not in Epcot. Typhoon Lagoon was originally supposed to be down for a small rehab to fix the walls on the wave pool but they found a sink hole under one area. That's the truth and the reason why the rehab has taken longer.

 

[Victor]

The Horizons1 site uses a quote from WDWmagic where someone claims that staff were pulled out of the building because of how bad the structural problems were. Also I have seen on some sites that they used images of a large area of excavated soil to further the idea of a sinkhole.

Based upon this we have Horizons1 claiming and unnamed source posting on WDWMagic is proof that there were structural problems - could have been a bus driver but who knows...

The second piece deals with core drilling and excavating equipment showing up on site and a large area being excavated near the "core" of the Horizons building. This was not a sinkhole but more likley the excavation site for the removal of the footers that once supported the core of Horizons. Most likely this rumor was started by people who simply do not know what a sinkhole is, or how buildings are constructed, or what equipment is used for removing buildings.

Above and beyond this there are numerous sites around the web that have pictures of the building being demolished - not a single pictures shows any signs of a sinkhole nor stress damage nor signs of a majorly leaking roof. It would be very very unlikely that such massive problems existed yet no evidence was captured on any of the pictures that I have seen.

Lastly let's examine some of the causes of the structural problems.

1.) A roof leak - do you know how long it would take for a roof leak to oxidize the steel supports in the building to the point repairs weren't reasonable? Trust me, this scenario doesn't even deserve serious consideration.

2.) The ride put too much stress on the building!! This is one of my favorites, an omnimover going 2 MPH was "tearing" the building apart. Not feasable to say the least.

3.) A sinkhole - Out of the three scenarios this is the most plausible, however there is no evidence of one opening up under the building based upon all of the demolition pictures. Believe me if a sinkhole were there someone would have captured a picture of it unless Disney repaired it prior to demolition commencing - if that were the case why tear the building down due to a sinkhole repair.

And finally the cost of repairing a sinkhole was too much so they tore down a major structure yet built another right on top of it. From a construction estimating standpoint this is ridiculous.

All of the evidence point towards a truth that many may not want to believe - Disney didn't want Horizons anymore. I think the myths and legends surfaced to try to justify either a bad decision, or by Horizons fans to ease the pain of its demolition.

Awesome, thanks for the detailed answer! :wave:

 

[mcjaco]

Awesome, thanks for the detailed answer! :wave:

More importantly, getting that ridiculous myth debunked to even more people.

 

[muteki]

The subject wasn't outdated, but the presentation was. It was starting to look very 80's, and the year 2000 was fast approaching. To me, that's not a big deal, I'm a sucker for nostalgia. Of course the outdated issue could have been fixed with a rehab.

(I probably need to watch the ride-through again)

Well as a dark ride it was presented in a manner similar with other rides such as SSE, etc. I suppose the consoles, architecture, and other things were more of an 80's perception of future world, though how much that perception would change today would be very interesting.

The 80's in general had many external forms of media that were influencing the general perception of what "future" meant, where as today, many of those influences simply don't exist anymore, or have become passe, and there isn't a "standard" future theme anymore.

Therefore it is hard for me to picture exactly how to theme up a future based attraction, without having to look for influences in the past....(if that makes sense ).

 

[SirGoofy]

WDI wanted to build a new Space themed attraction somewhere in Future World. Horizons was the obvious choice due to low guest flow. A new space pavilion was actually planned to go into the Horizons building complete with a walk-thru gravity wheel, mirror maze, simulators and a space walk area (concept art is still posted backstage, I've seen it many times).

I love that concept art, it would have been great.

The complete Pavilion with the Mission SPACE simulator would have been something truely epic, and all the Horizons fans probably would have been content with the new addition.

 

[marni1971]

Yeah, a sinkhole appeared around 98 I think. Problems with the roof emerged as well. The problems could have been fixed, but it would have been very costly and time consuming.

Once again, there was no sinkhole or structural issues.

Disney wouldn`t pay for the elaborate rehab that was planned. Compaq came along and offered to pay for the new pavilion. Disney said yes.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Once again, there was no sinkhole or structural issues.

Disney wouldn`t pay for the elaborate rehab that was planned. Compaq came along and offered to pay for the new pavilion. Disney said yes.

I wonder why Compaq just didn't sponsor the new refurbed Horizons. Was it mandated by them that they wanted their money in Space?

 

[WelshBatman]

I gotta say, I was down at Mouse Surplus today and the horizons car they're selling for $10,000 is on display in the main show room. It was really cool to look at it again, after being gone for over 10 years.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Yeah, a sinkhole appeared around 98 I think. Problems with the roof emerged as well. The problems could have been fixed, but it would have been very costly and time consuming.

well... i think this has been covered.

I wonder why Compaq just didn't sponsor the new refurbed Horizons. Was it mandated by them that they wanted their money in Space?

looking at the old building... it looks huge in "area" or cubic feet due to the shape. I would guess that it wasnt big enough to hold their ideas of expansion. I loved the old building, im disappointed in the new compared to the concept art, but im still in favor of bulldozing somehting to get something better, and not trying to "fit" something in a preexisting building.

Is Compaq still around?