Rumor Hollywood insiders say there's growing tension at Disney as CEO Bob Chapek chafes at Bob Iger's 'long goodbye'

[MerlinTheGoat]

While Disney keeps their finger on the pulse of negative press and jumps on the defence when it comes at them, it seems like it's an over-correction. They've yet to suffer any actual consequences for anything they've been criticized for. If the charts are accurate, crowds are massive and profits are amazing. This is in spite of all of the quality cuts and price hikes that are brought up. As long as people are unwilling to put their money where their mouth is, there's no incentive for Disney to change. You aren't going to get a dog to stop peeing on the carpet by giving it treats for this behavior.

Not to discount your theory, but please consider that the world at large feels a lot than it did in the mid 90s also

I wouldn't claim to speak for the ENTIRE world in this case, and it would likely vary depending on what you're considering. I could name a lot of stuff that I consider better OR worse than the mid 90s. But I'm extremely concerned about certain off-topic world events at the moment.

That said, what I said about Disney World isn't a theory. It is indeed filthy and run-down. And the vast majority of newer attractions simply aren't up to snuff with what was there 20+ years ago. Standards have been in freefall for a long time now. You can still find some high standards at the non-US parks at least. Especially Tokyo Disneyland. So someone at least still exists that knows how to operate Disney parks.

 

[erasure fan1]

Also under Iger, the WDW experience flourished.

Financially it flourished for sure. But the parks experience itself really did nothing but dwindle his entire tenure. When did WDW get its first E ticket under Iger? Flight of passage in 2017, 12yrs into his tenure. The problems the parks are having now are a 100% byproduct of his letting the parks stagnate while attendance grew. Iger will always be the buyer of IPs to me. He never really cared about the parks. But he made the investors happy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

For better or worse, Iger built Shanghai, and my impression is that the situation in Paris is significantly better than a decade ago.

Also under Iger, the WDW experience flourished. As you reported in an earlier post, WDW has become more and more crowded - not because it was cheaper but it was well done. We (as a family) really enjoyed our WDW time under the Iger regime. DVC has sold well as a result of that guest satisfaction.

Shanghai matters not to the domestic market

Paris hopefully is better…Disney was forced to Take control. They would have preferred otherwise.

I’m gonna wait for the drugs to clear before address the last part…but I have to ask: did you go before Iger?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

While Disney keeps their finger on the pulse of negative press and jumps on the defence when it comes at them, it seems like it's an over-correction. They've yet to suffer any actual consequences for anything they've been criticized for. If the charts are accurate, crowds are massive and profits are amazing. This is in spite of all of the quality cuts and price hikes that are brought up. As long as people are unwilling to put their money where their mouth is, there's no incentive for Disney to change. You aren't going to get a dog to stop peeing on the carpet by giving it treats for this behavior.


I wouldn't claim to speak for the ENTIRE world in this case, and it would likely vary depending on what you're considering. I could name a lot of stuff that I consider better OR worse than the mid 90s. But I'm extremely concerned about certain off-topic world events at the moment.

That said, what I said about Disney World isn't a theory. It is indeed filthy and run-down. And the vast majority of newer attractions simply aren't up to snuff with what was there 20+ years ago. Standards have been in freefall for a long time now. You can still find some high standards at the non-US parks at least. Especially Tokyo Disneyland. So someone at least still exists that knows how to operate Disney parks.

I would argue that the reason wdw is “so successful” for the last 20 years has ZERO to do with the quality and management and it’s offerings.

I would say we are in an overconsumption, instant gratification society that was never imagined before about 1995…and Wdw fits that addiction very well.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Fastpass+ was actually a numerical disaster…I just posted the very long video describing down to the single seat in another thread. That’s why it’s gone after “only” 6 years

Disney doesn’t get rid of anything in 6 years…

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Fastpass+ was actually a numerical disaster…I just posted the very long video describing down to the single seat in another thread. That’s why it’s gone after “only” 6 years

Disney doesn’t get rid of anything in 6 years…

Indeed, but they have elected to replace it with an even worse system that further swindles guests and most people who aren't on the "payroll" hate. And yet, it has not been enough to stop people from visited and giving them their money. They've learned nothing and are going to continue pulling this crap.

I would argue that the reason wdw is “so successful” for the last 20 years has ZERO to do with the quality and management and it’s offerings.

I would say we are in an overconsumption, instant gratification society that was never imagined before about 1995…and Wdw fits that addiction very well.

There's that, but it goes along with a copious amount of marketing and indoctrination. And a sprinkling of surface level nostalgia pandering.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Paris hopefully is better…Disney was forced to Take control. They would have preferred otherwise.

Someone here (I forget if it was Martin or someone else) once said that the opposite was true. That Disney had wanted to take control of the resort for years and even had a hand in helping run DLP into the ground to make the previous management look bad and force them to give up control.

@marni1971 Sorry yo bring your name up, but were you the person who knew something about this? Or am I getting you mixed up with someone else such as Lee or WDW1974?

 

[pdude81]

Eh. We block out the bad stuff. The LA riots were still fresh in everyone’s minds then. Gang violence was horrendous. Outside of the US..Genocide in Rwanda. Somalia. Moved onto to Kosovo by 1998. I could go on with other stuff.

Imagine if we had social media then.

I wouldn't claim to speak for the ENTIRE world in this case, and it would likely vary depending on what you're considering. I could name a lot of stuff that I consider better OR worse than the mid 90s. But I'm extremely concerned about certain off-topic world events at the moment.

That said, what I said about Disney World isn't a theory. It is indeed filthy and run-down. And the vast majority of newer attractions simply aren't up to snuff with what was there 20+ years ago. Standards have been in freefall for a long time now. You can still find some high standards at the non-US parks at least. Especially Tokyo Disneyland. So someone at least still exists that knows how to operate Disney parks.

There are a lot of horrendous things that happen in all time periods. This isn't so much to point to the specific pain points that come and go in different areas (geographical and/or subject). Incomes haven't kept up with rising costs (other than electronics), increasing the number of multi job househoulds. Employees are reporting more job related stress most years compared to the previous. Suicide attempts are have been climbing much faster than population rates. We've been more polarized politically by the decade and less likely to compromise. And then Covid killed off whatever certainty we might have thought we had in the near future.

I'm not arguing that Disney hasn't been slacking heavily on upkeep and innovation, or that you shouldn't criticize them for bad show and lack of capacity. I'm just saying that some of the problem could be that we're trying as hard as we can to have as much magic in our lives as we did on the previous trip or to show our kids some awesome thing we did when we were younger. Can't recreate the magic, haha. I'm told that we are the magic.

Really, some of the decisions made over the last 20 years are laughable. I just don't think it's controversial to say that most people are more stressed and worried about everyday life now than they were in the 90's.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I find all of it to be utterly fascinating. I'm not sure people understand that this is as much about the two leadership cultures inside the company vying for control as it is about a piece of legislation.

I also did an interview on the topic of Bob Iger and how he is trying to present himself in the media during the Chapek era. Might be worth a watch for some:

I’m curious if you keep track of how many times you quote yourself?

 

[Midwest Elitist]

I find all of it to be utterly fascinating. I'm not sure people understand that this is as much about the two leadership cultures inside the company vying for control as it is about a piece of legislation.

I also did an interview on the topic of Bob Iger and how he is trying to present himself in the media during the Chapek era. Might be worth a watch for some:

Don't really like Renegade ideologically, but I'm binging out on watching videos of Disney hate (he's also a big Star Wars fan), so this was incredibly entertaining.

I await the horrors of what we will learn in the future segments.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Got a good chuckle on this...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Indeed, but they have elected to replace it with an even worse system that further swindles guests and most people who aren't on the "payroll" hate. And yet, it has not been enough to stop people from visited and giving them their money. They've learned nothing and are going to continue pulling this crap.

The reality is they can’t handle their crowd levels…it passed “zero barrier” probably around 2015. They didn’t expand to fit the normal growth and there’s no way to compensate on that significant of a level.

So FP+ created this weird “negative capacity” scenario…where they actually were losing throughput due to the mess of timed everything and no efficient crowd flow…and then what do you do?

Not the only thing to fix it - which would have a crash building program - they make it more restrictive and Monetize it.

Genie is worse by every account…but it’s monetized…so that is the ends justifying the means. They’d still have FP+…mostly likely…if they had monetized it upfront.

Both systems suck and can’t be fixed

 

[rreading]

I’m gonna wait for the drugs to clear before address the last part…but I have to ask: did you go before Iger?

I went to WDW probably 4-5 times growing up before college/med school/starting a career and having kids. Started going again around 2009 and pretty regularly since. Probably bought initial DVC on resale ~2011.

Sad about what happened to EPCOT in that time. Disappointed to have missed the Alien ride in Tomorrowland. But largely a fan of much of what was new (apart from test track).

 

[rreading]

The reality is they can’t handle their crowd levels…it passed “zero barrier” probably around 2015. They didn’t expand to fit the normal growth and there no way to compensate on that significant of a level.

So FP+ created this weird “negative capacity” scenario…where they actually were losing throughput due to the mess of timed everything and no efficient crowd flow…and then what do you do?

Not the only thing to fix it - which would have a crash building program - they make it more restrictive and Monetize it.

Genie is worse by every account…but it’s monetized…so that is the ends justifying the means. They’d still have FP+…mostly likely…if they had monetized it upfront.

Both systems suck and can’t be fixed

Just curious- especially as I don’t have an answer: do you think that legacy fastpass was reasonable?

 

[WDW Pro]

I’m curious if you keep track of how many times you quote yourself?

I find all of it to be utterly fascinating. I'm not sure people understand that this is as much about the two leadership cultures inside the company vying for control as it is about a piece of legislation.

Darn it, you've started up my habit again.

 

[marni1971]

Someone here (I forget if it was Martin or someone else) once said that the opposite was true. That Disney had wanted to take control of the resort for years and even had a hand in helping run DLP into the ground to make the previous management look bad and force them to give up control.

@marni1971 Sorry yo bring your name up, but were you the person who knew something about this? Or am I getting you mixed up with someone else such as Lee or WDW1974?

Wasn’t me. But I’d be very very surprised if that was true.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just curious- especially as I don’t have an answer: do you think that legacy fastpass was reasonable?

It was…because if was designed by an industrial engineer who studied/knew how to move people around and allocate spots

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wasn’t me. But I’d be very very surprised if that was true.

When given the choice between “license” and “run”…most companies including Disney pick “license”

Having the ability to charge for things without paying employees and mechanics and for toilette paper is always preferable to the masters on Wall Street.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Darn it, you've started up my habit again.

…I don’t think that charge is gonna stick with a jury

 

[Lilofan]

When given the choice between “license” and “run”…most companies including Disney pick “license”

Having the ability to charge for things without paying employees and mechanics and for toilette paper is always preferable to the masters on Wall Street.

That directive - find ways to lower labor costs unfortunately has a dark side to it too.