jt04
Well-Known Member
1 billion reasons.
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Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World
- Thread starter UCF
- Start date
1 billion reasons.
mergatroid
Well-Known Member
To save me searching the entire thread, does anyone have any idea how it will enter Disney Springs and from which direction? Just wondering whether the track will cross roads at ground level or use bridges so as not to stop traffic? I know Disney Crossroads shopping area is being demolished in a couple of months to add a better exit than the current LBV one, is this in any way connected?
Brightline is not intended as transportation between OIA & WDW. It is inter-city rail, bringing passengers from Miami & Tampa to Orlando, including WDW. Brightline trains will run hourly at the most, which is no substitute for DME.Plainly Disney dumped the ME because of the train...5 years early.
Disney probably dumped ME for the same reason they started charging for resort parking and reduced housekeeping services -- to enhance their bottom line. The increased use of Lyft & Uber provided a convenient excuse.
Disney has said the platforms will be elevated, with passenger services at ground level. It's very unlikely that there will be any grade crossings between 417 & the DS station.
Hopefully there will be safety barriers installed to discourage people from getting close to or walking on the train tracks.
corran horn
Well-Known Member
(was a joke)
Goulle Fatouille
Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
From what I hear, Disney has narrowed the probable locations to two, and favors one with the station straddling I-4 (not actually 'in' DS), with pedestrian bridges to a small transportation complex just east of the Team Disney building. I also believe that Reedy Creek has filed with Orange County to get use of the I-4 median on the county council docket, for initial approval to go forward with the research phase of such a plan.
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mergatroid
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that, makes more sense than actually being in Disney Springs.
Twirlnhurl
Well-Known Member
If Brightline connects to I-4 via 417 and 536 (Brightline's preferred alternative), how would it get to northeast of the Team Disney Building? 536 is a pretty good distance south of the Team Disney Building.
Have you seen any diagrams or plans showing this alignment, or is this concept only being considered for the alternate alignment with the stop at the Convention Center?
The Visionary Soul
Well-Known Member
No, this is a real alignment and I have seen plans. Think of it as taking a new overpass to the north and then coming back around to the southwest.
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
Considering how multi-level the Beyond the Ultimate I-4 plans are for the 535/536 stretch, I find the idea of a station straddling I-4 in that area to be a stretch. If I'm looking at the existing Beyond overhead plans correctly, it looks like there could be up to three levels of road at 535, and possibly 536 as well, so we're talking a train station straddling/within the mix of something possibly approaching the new 408 interchange? I just don't see that being feasible. Are those plans/documents publicly accessible yet?
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Goulle Fatouille
Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
I wish I had all the answers but I don't, and these are simply proposals meant to start the ball rolling. I did speak with an engineer from Brightline and his opinion is that the platform (only) would be in the median of I-4 and the station would then be a short walk over I-4 to Disney property. There is a retention pond and surface parking lot on the site proposed for the full station. As for track alignment, the picture I have in my head involves a triangle where a train going west-bound, along 536, could turn north-east to meet I-4 and the station (a spur) or south-west to head directly to Tampa. The third side of the triangle would be south-west from the station, along the median of I-4, connecting with the mainline to Tampa. The engineer also told me that a potential alignment like this could then be extended north to the convention center (along I-4) although no one is proposing that connection yet. In the same vein, no one is proposing a spur to the port of Cocoa (from I-95 / 528 on the east coast) yet either but the design of the current branch off the FEC corridor allows for it. It looks to be a mess no matter how you slice this, especially when looking at the current Ultimate I-4 plans.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
In railroad terms that triangle of track is called a wye - very common. Would definitely make sense in this situation.
The Visionary Soul
Well-Known Member
It actually goes around the 536 intersection. Trust me it works. And yes, it would be expensive.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Universal is offering land to help get the Beachline route selected.
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www.wftv.com
Proposed high speed rail from OIA to South Florida receives pushback over route
A high speed rail will soon connect South Florida to the Orlando International Airport.
www.wftv.com
If Universal wants that route they should guarantee to pay 100% of the cost over the preferred route.Universal is offering land to help get the Beachline route selected.
Proposed high speed rail from OIA to South Florida receives pushback over route
A high speed rail will soon connect South Florida to the Orlando International Airport.
Bob Harlem
Well-Known Member
Personally I don't think it should stop at Disney or here, but at least the Convention Center is a valid reason on its own.
DisneySongbird
Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Here's the thing about intercity railroads: the attractiveness of riding one goes way down when it dumps you out at the end with no way to actually get to your final destination. Amtrak's allegedly high-speed rail offering between New York City and Washington, DC (which cannot actually be called HSR because it only briefly touches 150 mph for a single straightaway about 30 miles long in southern Massachusetts and Rhode Island, meaning that all the trains operating between NY and DC only don't qualify) only functions as well as it does because of the robust local transit networks at either end of the line (plus in intermediate stops Philadelphia and Baltimore) as well as providing for airport and/or rental car connections at the nearby airports along the line.
Let's leave aside the question of Orlando's local transit network for the moment, because Brightline as of today has essentially stated they have no intention of going to Orlando the city at all. Their preference is to bypass Orlando while still getting to claim a connection by way of the airport stop (which is only technically true), which would be the equivalent of Amtrak's Northeast Corridor running between NYC and BWI Airport only while still claiming it connected passengers to DC. (Sure, connected by way of a rental car or long taxi ride...)
There needs to be a stop somewhere in Downtown Orlando, or along the I-Drive corridor, or anything more centrally located that can be built around for future transit initiatives. Honestly, Brightline never should have gotten this far with its preferred alignment to begin with, but that's neither here nor there.
And having said all that, its objectively terrible present alignment is still better than nothing. The rails can always be improved later, but Florida can only kill the idea so many times before nothing gets built to be fixed in the first place.
Sidebar re: train to Disney Springs: last I checked, WDW did not allow luggage (including carryons) to be brought onto its buses. So long as that remains true, a station in DS won't be useful to anyone flying in from the airport with more than a backpack. Maybe Disney revives its bus service from the train station, but that feels unlikely.
Let's leave aside the question of Orlando's local transit network for the moment, because Brightline as of today has essentially stated they have no intention of going to Orlando the city at all. Their preference is to bypass Orlando while still getting to claim a connection by way of the airport stop (which is only technically true), which would be the equivalent of Amtrak's Northeast Corridor running between NYC and BWI Airport only while still claiming it connected passengers to DC. (Sure, connected by way of a rental car or long taxi ride...)
There needs to be a stop somewhere in Downtown Orlando, or along the I-Drive corridor, or anything more centrally located that can be built around for future transit initiatives. Honestly, Brightline never should have gotten this far with its preferred alignment to begin with, but that's neither here nor there.
And having said all that, its objectively terrible present alignment is still better than nothing. The rails can always be improved later, but Florida can only kill the idea so many times before nothing gets built to be fixed in the first place.
Sidebar re: train to Disney Springs: last I checked, WDW did not allow luggage (including carryons) to be brought onto its buses. So long as that remains true, a station in DS won't be useful to anyone flying in from the airport with more than a backpack. Maybe Disney revives its bus service from the train station, but that feels unlikely.
Twirlnhurl
Well-Known Member
That is definitely true, which is why the Orlando Airport makes more sense for the main Orlando Brightline station than Downtown Orlando or the Convention Center. The Orlando Airport has frequent private bus service to all area attractions, and is an easy place to make a transfer (or it will be when more of the ground transportation moves to the dedicated bus stations at Terminal C). Although the Orlando Airport is not ever going to have a significant population living near it for commuter service demand, it is a significant employer (13,000-ish employees last I heard) and is a very significant generator of trips to the area. Just as an airline gets more value connecting a new city to a hub because of agglomeration effects, so too is there greater value in connecting the existing transportation hub for the region instead of making a new one somewhere else.
Tomorrow (July 22, 2021), there are 12 direct flights from MCO to MIA or FLL. Prior to the pandemic (and undoubtedly in the future) that number was greater and also included flights to PBI. A fair portion of those flights have passengers continuing on to connecting flights from those places, so Brightline will not be a reasonable substitute for some of those trips. But this still hints at a fairly large opportunity to grow the market for intercity travel for non-commute trips, even given the fact that Orlando lacks a strong center.
The 417 alignment definitely makes more sense than the 528 route for this reason. The 528 route crosses the SunRail tracks without a station in a very industrial area. (Demand for warehouse space is booming now, so it is not obvious to me that residential and commercial redevelopment would outbid the existing light industry uses for a very long time.)
The 417 alignment includes a transfer station at the Meadow Woods SunRail station. This is not obviously a region poised for growth, due to the area being mostly built out with detached housing. However, there is a defunct golf course in the area, which could be redeveloped if the storm water easements could get worked out and the inevitable NIMBY pressure doesn't kill it. I guess that what the Meadow Woods area will look like if the 417 Alignment is chosen will depend on whether Orange County allows a higher density of development here; whether the land owners want to increase the value of the land by building greater density (less likely if the properties are owner-occupied, when I looked into the area eight years ago, it was fairly typical in that regard.); and whether the golf course gets redeveloped.
I could not agree more with this!
The only thing preventing luggage from being allowed on Disney buses is Disney's own policy, which costs nothing to change. I might imagine that Disney would add luggage racks to buses serving Disney Springs, which isn't free. But is far less than the cost of a new bus, and is cheaper than paying Mears for DME over time. I determined a quick back of the envelope cost estimate of replacing DME with frequent Brightline and enhanced buses earlier in this thread. The costs worked out to be well into the feasible range as far as I could see.
@DisneySongbird I really enjoyed responding to your thoughtful comments!
Robbiem
Well-Known Member
Maybe Disney will have a resort check in area at the station so you can check bags and collect room keys etc. The bags can then be taken sepa from the guests.
does anyone know how close the airport station is to the new Disney office campus by the airport? Would it be a viable way for staff to travel between their offices and the resort or would road travel still be the way to go?
does anyone know how close the airport station is to the new Disney office campus by the airport? Would it be a viable way for staff to travel between their offices and the resort or would road travel still be the way to go?
scottb411
Well-Known Member
Brightline and Sunrail will both have a shared stop at the Meadow Woods station with Sunrail already having a stop at Sand Lake (I-Drive) and four stops around downtown Orlando. Universal should send a bus to the Sand Lake Sunrail station to bring guest to its Epic Universe property when it opens:
Home - SunRail
SunRail is a Central Florida-based rail service moving people throughout the region by providing work and leisure travel opportunities and connecting communities. The system currently operates over 49 miles with 16 stations through Volusia, Seminole, Orange, and Osceola counties.
sunrail.com