Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

Vegas Disney Fan

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Disone said:
Bright line west is not a continuation of the previous DesertXpress. That project was an attempt that fell apart and failed. Brightline West is a new take on an previous concept, with new players and a new company.

If Bright Line completes West anywhere near the same timeline as the original bright line then yes I would consider it a much better example of how to get something done, esp compared then the California high speed rail project AND DesertXpress, the latter of which not only never got done but really never got started.
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You are correct, 2 completely unrelated projects, ironically desertxpress was nearing approval when it was derailed (😉) by Harry Reid because he decided a Maglev would be a better option, despite it being 10x the cost and something everyone in the world (but him apparently) knew had no chance of ever being financed .

Brightline west is also a much smarter design than desert express, the majority of it is going to run in the median of I15, this means fewer overpasses will need to be built and they won’t have to acquire much private land.

Brightline west has everything they need to start construction, land, financing, and approvals. Now it’s just a matter of building it.
 
W

WoundedDreamer

Well-Known Member
Vegas Disney Fan said:
You are correct, 2 completely unrelated projects, ironically desertxpress was nearing approval when it was derailed (😉) by Harry Reid because he decided a Maglev would be a better option, despite it being 10x the cost and something everyone in the world (but him apparently) knew had no chance of ever being financed .

Brightline west is also a much smarter design than desert express, the majority of it is going to run in the median of I15, this means fewer overpasses will need to be built and they won’t have to acquire much private land.

Brightline west has everything they need to start construction, land, financing, and approvals. Now it’s just a matter of building it.
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One of the videos I watched a while back with the CEO of Brightline made a really good point about using the highway median. Not only will it save money and resources, it's also the best billboard in the world. Imagine sitting in traffic because of an accident or just gridlock generally, and then seeing a high-speed train train whiz by. Talk about great advertising!

At two hours between the two destinations, Brightline West is on track to make day trips to Las Vegas from Las Angeles or vice versa into a reality. Families could do a beach trip in a day if they plan it right. In terms of which project is more brilliant and savvy, it's no contest. That doesn't necessarily make the California State rail lines bad or not worthwhile, but the ballooning prices are pretty staggering. I'm hopeful both succeed.
 
J

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
FutureCEO said:
I take the train into work. Driving sucks. Until we get true fast trains, airports will continue to be used for short trips....like Boston to NYC.

London to Paris is the same distance wise and takes 2.5 hours.
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Fast trains are not the problem, its the routes you have to take.

I worked on the Electrification of the NorthEast Corridor back in the late 90's. Even back then, the new electrical cars for the Acela service all were capable of faster speeds than they ever ran. However the rail system itself, with its grade changes, turns, banks, ect., could not handle the top speed of the Acela trains.

You have some the same issues with the idea of using highway medians for train services. Highways are designed for speeds in the 55-80MPH range (with some flexibility.) You are not going to get high speed , on roadways that aren't designed for highspeed. If you think there is investment opportunity to build an underground direct connection between Boston and NYC for example, like under the Chanel for London to Paris then you might get a similar service. But the land Aquisition costs, or tunnelling costs to create direct point to point connection for a high speed rail between 2 major points is going to cost prohibitive in the US in most cases.
 
Phil12

Phil12

Well-Known Member
FutureCEO said:
I take the train into work. Driving sucks. Until we get true fast trains, airports will continue to be used for short trips....like Boston to NYC.

London to Paris is the same distance wise and takes 2.5 hours.
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Yeah me too. I used to take the high speed train from New Jersey into Philly and then transfer to the subway. Trains and subways also suck! But, of course, I suppose some people enjoy being in close proximity to other passengers for the always intriguing fragrances and opportunities to be jostled.
 
L

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Phil12 said:
Yeah me too. I used to take the high speed train from New Jersey into Philly and then transfer to the subway. Trains and subways also suck! But, of course, I suppose some people enjoy being in close proximity to other passengers for the always intriguing fragrances and opportunities to be jostled.
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Immigrant ladies have made a lucrative side hustle in the late afternoon NYC trains. They go from cab to cab selling a variety of chips and candy bars in the packed subway cars with commuters going home. Multiple riders buy a snickers or doritos and other snacks the ladies sell tax free. I’m sure Uncle Sam won’t be seeing this income declared. I doubt this kind of transaction won’t be happening on Brightline.
 
cranbiz

cranbiz

Well-Known Member
As well as the definition of system.

I rode the MBTA commuter rail system for many years when I worked in Charlestown. It was affordable, it was just as fast as driving to the greater Boston area from the south and the schedules were actually pretty convenient. With a Zone 7 pass (the one for us on far away) it also allowed full use of the T trolley/subway system, the bus system and the water shuttles for that $70 a month.

It was cheaper than driving and then add in the parking. I only had to step outside once I boarded the train in Kingston or Middleboro, changed trains at South Station to the subway. When I got to the Aquarium station I had to walk 2 blocks to the water shuttle and then a short walk to my building (that walk was shorter than the walk from the parking garage).

To me, that was a useful and successful system.
 
JoeCamel

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
cranbiz said:
As well as the definition of system.

I rode the MBTA commuter rail system for many years when I worked in Charlestown. It was affordable, it was just as fast as driving to the greater Boston area from the south and the schedules were actually pretty convenient. With a Zone 7 pass (the one for us on far away) it also allowed full use of the T trolley/subway system, the bus system and the water shuttles for that $70 a month.

It was cheaper than driving and then add in the parking. I only had to step outside once I boarded the train in Kingston or Middleboro, changed trains at South Station to the subway. When I got to the Aquarium station I had to walk 2 blocks to the water shuttle and then a short walk to my building (that walk was shorter than the walk from the parking garage).

To me, that was a useful and successful system.
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How is the ambience of that ride?
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
Self-sustaining by fare revenue, unlike Amtrak.
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That’s a strange definition of the word useful.

And of course some Amtrak routes are self-sustaining on their own, and all the corridors are self sustaining as far as Amtrak as a business is concerned (the states subsidize the corridors).

So is Brightline useful then?
 
networkpro

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
TrainsOfDisney said:
That’s a strange definition of the word useful.

And of course some Amtrak routes are self-sustaining on their own, and all the corridors are self sustaining as far as Amtrak as a business is concerned (the states subsidize the corridors).

So is Brightline useful then?
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No they are not self sustainable as it's always run at a deficit and as a government agency since it's creation. It is not economically viable as a business.

enotrans.org

Leadership Awards - The Eno Center for Transportation

November 9, 2023 - On Halloween, the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) added an extra level of spookiness when it announced its preliminary end-of-fiscal-year ridership and financial totals.
enotrans.org enotrans.org
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
No they are not self sustainable as it's always run at a deficit and as a government agency since it's creation. It is not economically viable as a business.
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Did you read what I wrote? Some of the routes are self-sustaining and all of the state corridors pay for themselves as far as Amtrak is concerned.

And of course the Interstate Highway and FAA are not economically viable businesses either but that’s a whole nother discussion haha.
 
networkpro

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
TrainsOfDisney said:
Did you read what I wrote? Some of the routes are self-sustaining and all of the state corridors pay for themselves as far as Amtrak is concerned.

And of course the Interstate Highway and FAA are not economically viable businesses either but that’s a whole nother discussion haha.
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Apples and oranges comparisons. Both of your examples fall under the Department of Transportation which tries to plan a holistic mesh of available means to get goods and people around the US efficiently. We just happen to currently have a strong advocate in office for one of these methods that meets his particular needs "Amtrak Joe".

Both of your examples provide the means that companies use to provide transportation services while Amtrak is the service that's provided. They do so by forced legally superseding use of privately owned freight rail lines.
 
Twirlnhurl

Twirlnhurl

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
No they are not self sustainable as it's always run at a deficit and as a government agency since it's creation. It is not economically viable as a business.
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Nobody reasonable would ever accuse Amtrak of being a well managed organization. But that doesn't mean that rail has no place in our transportation system.

Some individual segments of intercity rail actually do operate at a profit. In fact, a fair portion of the lack of profitability of Amtrak is the result of the federal funding. Because so much money comes from the feds, a coalition of legislators who would like rail service get service, despite having ridership numbers that are too low to justify service in their area.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
We just happen to currently have a strong advocate in office for one of these methods that meets his particular needs "Amtrak Joe".
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The Amtrak route that Joe Biden took regularly is profitable - the north east corridor. I haven’t seen any favoritism toward Amtrak in the last couple of years.

You do know that passenger trains around the world are subsidized right? Just like all other forms of public transportation.
 

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