Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
I guess I should make myself clearer. I am expressing my opinion based on whatever knowledge that I personally have of the area. When compared to the 73 years I have been on this planet, I have spent probably 150 days on the highways of Florida. I am never going to see it completed and if I did I will never be riding it. Some opinions are based on nothing more then what, on the surface, I would do if it were my money and what I think is fiscally wise. Based on what I have seen over the last few years about Florida my guess is that 10 years from now everyone in Florida will be back to horse and buggy.

Well, I've spent over 20,000 days on the highways of Florida and can tell you commuter rail is a needed and viable option.

And no, in 10 years Florida won't be back to horse and buggy. Bass boats, yes, as sea levels rise, especially in Miami-Dade. I look forward to Gulf Coast beachfront property.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
I guess they don't realize how darn hot & sticky it gets until it's too late. :)

Not to mention those tropical cyclones that make the occasional appearance. But I can understand the attraction, when one is sitting on the back deck of a local bar that overlooks the aqua waters and white sand beaches of Panama City to Destin.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I-4 from WDW to Tampa is 65 mi. The TGV, a HSR technology common in Europe, accelerates to 199 mph in 5.3 minutes within 11.2 mi. That leaves 53.8 mi. to run at top speed, minus distance for deceleration.

The Japanese bullet train accelerates to 170 mph in 3 minutes. It's has a lower top speed, but stronger acceleration.
I rode the bullet from Osaka to Tokyo during Expo 70. The trees did go by fast, fast and it was very smooth but it was completely non-stop and the track was completely isolated from any other living person or structure along the entire path. That is some pretty costly infrastructure in my mind. Even back then all I could think of was how many earthquakes happen in Japan and wondered what it would be like to leave the rails at that speed or to have the rails leave us.
I didn’t realise it was bombed.
The Air Force tends to avoid bombing their own base, however I suspect that many were dropped off the coast. And to my knowledge central Florida was never attacked by any enemy. Even if they did, they would have been beaten back by the Dino sized mosquitoes.
 
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LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
The Air Force tends to avoid bombing their own base

Pinecastle, the precursor to McCoy, was used by the two bomb squadrons stationed there for both live and simulated training, which included dropping bombs. SAC used the base during its Bombing and Navigation Competition, which was both live and simulated. During the 1940s and 1950s, that part of Florida wasn't as densely populated as it is now.

I can pretty much bet those training runs out of Eglin include live bombs dropped in the Apalachicola forest.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Well, I've spent over 20,000 days on the highways of Florida and can tell you commuter rail is a needed and viable option.

And no, in 10 years Florida won't be back to horse and buggy. Bass boats, yes, as sea levels rise, especially in Miami-Dade. I look forward to Gulf Coast beachfront property.
It might be a good idea to start hauling in some landfill and raise your property level about the eventual see level. There may be a time when SSE floats on out to the open ocean like a giant beach ball.

BTW, I agree that rail service is needed at this time and that holds true for the entire country. My only thought is that north and south high speed trains might be useful and financially viable in Florida. The only thing I am saying is that there isn't a spot other then the panhandle east to west that needs a high speed rail. It would be better served by light rail coast to coast in my opinion.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Yes, we do, but the major reason is clear: Amtrak runs on tracks which are owned and controlled by profit-oriented freight railroads. Not all, but most Amtrak delays result from the freight railroads failing to give passenger trains priority over freight, as they are required to do by a law which is rarely enforced. Or freight trains derailing or breaking down and blocking the line. If you look at the Northeast Corridor, Washington to Boston, where Amtrak owns and controls the tracks, on-time performance is much better.

The second reason is lack of commitment, which leads to lack of funding, which leads to poor maintenance and operating decisions based on lowering costs over optimizing service. Example: the replacement of full dining car service on most trains with cheap, precooked, prepackaged, reheated TV dinners. (The Auto Train is the only exception.) Fortunately, plans have been announced to restore full service on western trains, and there have been rumors that eastern trains will also see the return of full service by the end of the year.
All true, but also very relevant when determining if it will work.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Not really. Most rail corridors in the us provide “unsucky” service and run with an on time performance standard similar to other forms of travel.
I would question the use of most and if you are comparing it to airlines then that's not all that high a bar to achieve. We cannot hope to achieve the higher level of Europe because and until the public starts to feel the advantage and need to upgrade the entire system. My experience in Europe really blew my mind. The Train Stations made even some modern Airport terminals look porta pottys.
 

uncle jimmy

Premium Member
What transit options would you invest in if you were the state of Florida?
I know this wasn't directed to me, just want to put my thoughts in here.
A tourist destination and a home to millions, they need to have more available options...
High Speed rail to connect distanced locations (+adds option for flyers & high-way drivers)
Monorail/ Trolley lines for inside city centers (+adds option for bus riders & cars)
Sidewalk/ bikes routes to take people away from driving/ riding

The more options you give people, the more you spread them around.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
I would question the use of most and if you are comparing it to airlines then that's not all that high a bar to achieve.
Why would you question it? I’m basing it on my personal experiences riding rail corridors all around the USA.

And if we can’t compare to airlines what shall we compare it to?

Besides... European railways don’t have particularly great on time performance either.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
It might be a good idea to start hauling in some landfill and raise your property level about the eventual see level. There may be a time when SSE floats on out to the open ocean like a giant beach ball.

BTW, I agree that rail service is needed at this time and that holds true for the entire country. My only thought is that north and south high speed trains might be useful and financially viable in Florida. The only thing I am saying is that there isn't a spot other then the panhandle east to west that needs a high speed rail. It would be better served by light rail coast to coast in my opinion.

Sea levels will have to rise substantially for my property to be submerged, as I live in the southern end of the Red Hills Region in a city that is 203 feet above sea level.

I disagree. I think high speed rail from the Gold Coast to the First Coast is desirable.

Disagree about the Panhandle. The western part isn't that densely populated compared to Duval. If Amtrak would reestablish the NOLA to Jax portion of the Sunset Limited, that could take care of much of the pleasure travel in the Panhandle.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I have traveled between Orlando and Tampa many times on business. Orlando isn't the only tourist spot in Florida.

The planning for rail between Tampa and Orlando has already been done - was part of the 2000 and 2009 proposals. And that included the necessary survey of land, along with legislative authorization to purchase the Central Florida Rail Corridor from CSX.

It's a little over an hour's drive on I-4 between the 2 cities. There are people who live in Georgia and work in Florida. I know because I've worked with them. And most have a good 45 to 50 minute commute each way - and not on an interstate.

And Miami isn't just a tourist destination. It is a major artery to South America via plane and ship. And an international banking center.

And there is more to Orlando than just tourists. Try visiting downtown. Observe the names on those buildings.

There is more to Florida than Walt Disney World. Why else would it be one of the fastest growing states in the country?
Although it isn't the only tourist area it is the only one that is central Florida. There rest are ocean and gulf beach areas. That would require rail lines that travel up and down the east and west coasts with a wide variety of possible "favorite" areas for individual tastes. They cannot have stops in all the areas over 300 miles top to bottom and a lot of it running through the Everglades. I'm sure that the weather would entice many to move there. I can think back to the early 60 when you could buy a large plot of land, partially submerged for $200.00 but that would be the basic social security, fixed income old folks that moved someplace warm and snowless. Not much of an income there. I stated once about staying in a hotel just to one side of I-4 and from the eight floor you could look for miles up and down the highway and know that until and because WDW was there that would still be swamp land. WDW enticed large financial companies to move to the Orlando areas with promises of money and recreation.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Pinecastle, the precursor to McCoy, was used by the two bomb squadrons stationed there for both live and simulated training, which included dropping bombs. SAC used the base during its Bombing and Navigation Competition, which was both live and simulated. During the 1940s and 1950s, that part of Florida wasn't as densely populated as it is now.

I can pretty much bet those training runs out of Eglin include live bombs dropped in the Apalachicola forest.
Quite possible, but some would have been found by now. We didn't bomb our own bases or general vicinity.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Although it isn't the only tourist area it is the only one that is central Florida. There rest are ocean and gulf beach areas. That would require rail lines that travel up and down the east and west coasts with a wide variety of possible "favorite" areas for individual tastes. They cannot have stops in all the areas over 300 miles top to bottom and a lot of it running through the Everglades. I'm sure that the weather would entice many to move there. I can think back to the early 60 when you could buy a large plot of land, partially submerged for $200.00 but that would be the basic social security, fixed income old folks that moved someplace warm and snowless. Not much of an income there. I stated once about staying in a hotel just to one side of I-4 and from the eight floor you could look for miles up and down the highway and know that until and because WDW was there that would still be swamp land. WDW enticed large financial companies to move to the Orlando areas with promises of money and recreation.

Trains can't and won't run through the Everglades...it's a national park. And no one is calling for commuter rail crisscrossing the state. But it's a viable option along the east coast from Miami to Jax, with a branch that could feed Orlando and Tampa. Which was the original plan...minus Jax.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Quite possible, but some would have been found by now. We didn't bomb our own bases or general vicinity.

Uh, yes we did... I suggest you try hunting for dropped arsenal in the Apalachicola forest. Good luck. And watch out for bears.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Why would you question it? I’m basing it on my personal experiences riding rail corridors all around the USA.

And if we can’t compare to airlines what shall we compare it to?

Besides... European railways don’t have particularly great on time performance either.
Well, based on my experience and a number of train trips in Europe never did anyone of them leave late or arrive more then 5 minutes late. So I guess we probably better agree to disagree before we go to far.
Sea levels will have to rise substantially for my property to be submerged, as I live in the southern end of the Red Hills Region in a city that is 203 feet above sea level.

I disagree. I think high speed rail from the Gold Coast to the First Coast is desirable.

Disagree about the Panhandle. The western part isn't that densely populated compared to Duval. If Amtrak would reestablish the NOLA to Jax portion of the Sunset Limited, that could take care of much of the pleasure travel in the Panhandle.
I only included the panhandle because last I heard the state capital is located there and there would need to be a hub on that corner to make it all complete and connect top to bottom side to side for it to be useable. Is the train from NOLA of high speed rating?
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Well, based on my experience and a number of train trips in Europe never did anyone of them leave late or arrive more then 5 minutes late. So I guess we probably better agree to disagree before we go to far.

I only included the panhandle because last I heard the state capital is located there and there would need to be a hub on that corner to make it all complete and connect top to bottom side to side for it to be useable.

We do have an Amtrak station.
 

joelkfla

Well-Known Member
All true, but also very relevant when determining if it will work.
No, because Brightline (or the HSR that's been peripherally discussed here) would have dedicated track, and new mainline construction will be completely grade-separated. They may share the track with local commuter rail, but their agreement with FDOT on the Cocoa-Orlando segment prohibits the running of freight. It will probably be the same on the Tampa segment.

As for commitment, that remains to be seen.
 

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