the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Now we just need to tear down that ugly arena atop Penn Station!
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Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World
- Thread starter UCF
- Start date
Twirlnhurl
Well-Known Member
I actually think that Brightline will run additional trains between MCO and Disney Springs, if SunRail doesn't.
The benefits of running a train every 15 minutes are quite obvious in terms of revenue. It definitely won't collect all the trips that MDE used to provide, and it certainly wouldn't collect all the trips from Uber or rental cars. But the market for four trains an hour is more than four times the size of the market for one train an hour, simply because the average wait is so much shorter.
So, I think that someone will run a shuttle service (or a service with intermediate stations) between MCO and Disney.
I think that the most likely outcome is that it will end up being SunRail. If Brightline does it, it would be a differently-branded service.
And I wouldn't hold my breath about the people in Hunters Creek getting paid off to run trains on the 417 Row. There will be complainers, but they will be ignored, because that is such an obviously stupid objection. Motorcycles are over 100 dB, while trains are around 83 dB, similar to semi trucks (Source) and even if there is a train every 5 minutes, there are motorcycles on 417 at least as often.
The benefits of running a train every 15 minutes are quite obvious in terms of revenue. It definitely won't collect all the trips that MDE used to provide, and it certainly wouldn't collect all the trips from Uber or rental cars. But the market for four trains an hour is more than four times the size of the market for one train an hour, simply because the average wait is so much shorter.
So, I think that someone will run a shuttle service (or a service with intermediate stations) between MCO and Disney.
I think that the most likely outcome is that it will end up being SunRail. If Brightline does it, it would be a differently-branded service.
And I wouldn't hold my breath about the people in Hunters Creek getting paid off to run trains on the 417 Row. There will be complainers, but they will be ignored, because that is such an obviously stupid objection. Motorcycles are over 100 dB, while trains are around 83 dB, similar to semi trucks (Source) and even if there is a train every 5 minutes, there are motorcycles on 417 at least as often.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Running trains every 15 minutes wouldn't necessarily make sense, though. It could, but it would depend on airplane arrival schedules and train capacity (among other factors). I have a feeling that would be too often to make financial sense, but impossible to know without all those numbers.
I'm pretty sure Brightline wouldn't do it since it would require purchasing more trains and altering their whole service model (although if the numbers suggested doing so would result in a significant increase in profits, that might change their mind). Doesn't mean someone else wouldn't, though.
raymusiccity
Well-Known Member
It's been mentioned before, but, why would anyone want to drag their luggage across the terminal to a train platform, wait for a train to take them to Disney Springs, then hopefully, catch a bus to their resort hotel. Everyone knows what Disney transportation looks like during normal times, now picture throwing additional passengers on board with luggage! Why not just Uber or Lyft directly from the airport to your resort ?
Disone
Well-Known Member
How dare I interpret the meeting and his comments differently then you. Wow the nerve of me
to think the comments are 100% in regards to the 528 line versus the 417 line.You tried to paint a picture that bright-line really is not interested in Walt Disney World in that it's just a part of the deal that they have to go along with.
It very much the deal that they want and that is all I am saying. Agree they don't want to be a community service that goes to the Orange County Convention Center and all other points in between.
Disagree that they're not really interested in the revenue opportunity that is the MCO to Walt Disney World corridor.
That doesn't necessarily mean they're vying to be the exclusive provider of transportation from the airport to Walt Disney World. But they definitely want a piece of that pie.
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This is so true. Even if they wanted to fill this role, guests do not want this hassle.
Disone
Well-Known Member
Eh. I've had to drag my luggage through the terminal to the car rental counter, to their shuttle bus stop, to the rail transit station.... to the where ever at many airports around the world.
With DME gone... the experience being described here as impossible is really just what is normal at most airports around the world. Especially when people choose the rail option at those locations. Chances are the real option is not taking them directly to where they're going but just close. And from there they still need to take another form of transportation to finally make it to their destination. This is just normal outside of the Walt Disney World experience.
I do think discontinuing DME was a mistake. Perhaps they should have offered it for nominal fee. Certainly the argument could be made the nominal fee here is worth the convenience of not having to go through the hassle of dragging luggage to point b to get to point c to get to..... It's a chore for sure.
I'm still of the opinion that at this time Brightline has no interest in shuttling people between MCO & WDW, although SunTrain may in the future. But to dispute some of your points:
You'll have to drag your luggage across the airport to the Uber pickup, the rental car pickup, or wherever. And there has been a rumor that MCO plans to move all ground transportation, including car rentals, to the South Terminal complex, in which case you'd be riding the same APM to the same place whether using Uber, rail, Mears, or a car rental.
SunRail is commuter rail, but Brightline is intercity rail that handles checked baggage. If they were interested, Brightline could work out a luggage transfer agreement with the airlines. SunRail would need to acquire additional equipment if they were to provide airport service; I'd expect those new coaches would have ample space for luggage on board, as direct airport rail generally does. Disney could provide last-mile luggage transfer to their resorts, perhaps for a fee.
DME was not the only one to move baggage from airports to hotels. Similar services are (or were) offered by 3rd parties at other airports. I think the contractor that provided the luggage transfer for DME may have been one of the companies offering the service in other cities.
wendysue
Well-Known Member
And if you have to do that...may as well go ANYWHERE. I see families opting for offsite when there is no ME. If they have to rent a car, etc. may as well stay somewhere cheaper.
TransportationGuy
Active Member
The key difference is that Orlando is a family tourism corridor through and through. These sorts of arrangements are great and all, but they wouldn’t ever be viewed favorably here
TransportationGuy
Active Member
While I think the spirit of this is true, I don’t this this is truly the future for the following reasons:
1. Bus transportation operations moving to the new terminal make sense. “Red lot” or the area right behind the new gas station has long been the holding lot for buses and it takes forever for them to get up to the AB terminal (especially during high traffic times)
2. The APM would be stretched to/beyond capacity with that kind of traffic at anywhere near the current frequency. Try to visualize all those lines for rental cars, DME, taxis, and Ubers getting onto the APM. The congestion under the current situation would be unbearable.
3. MCO makes hundreds of millions of dollars off of MAG, which is basically allowing car companies to operate on site and is already baked into the cost of these services. While I could foresee the A side operation perhaps being returned to general parking, I don’t envision them eliminating these services on the entire AB terminal complex.
4. While buses could be convinced by running out of the C terminal, there would be substantial pushback from Paul Mears and his colleagues that are heavily involved with GOAA’s operations. The majority of the taxi going population at MCO uses the service because it’s close to the terminal and you just hop in and go. Eliminating the major draws would spell the end of these revenues not only for Mears, but for all the smaller ‘mom and pop’ companies as well. Those small businesses then pose a political problem for the board.
In addition to operational challenges, there’s many political forces at play here too.
Twirlnhurl
Well-Known Member
TransportationGuy, I can agree with most of what you said, and I think it was well reasoned. Those were good points. I do think that item 2 may not be correct, though:
The peak demand for this APM in the scenario you were refuting would be whatever percentage of total traffic at the AB Terminal is arriving or departing via Terminal C ground transportation.
Total Terminal AB traffic is limited by the capacity of the air side 1-4 APMs, which have three car trains and have a dispatch interval of two minutes.
A back of the envelope calculation (assuming the air side 1-4 APMs have the same capacity per car as the Terminal AB to C APM) says that peak demand for the Terminal AB to C APM would be six cars per minute multiplied by the percentage of travelers using Terminal C ground transportation. If that percentage is less than 67% (I think 67% is definitely the top of the plausibility range) and the Terminal AB to C APM can dispatch every 60 seconds, than this APM would be able to handle the passenger demand if car rental and bus were moved to Terminal C.
I don't think it is likely for the reasons you described, But I think it is technically possible.
The APM between Terminals AB and Terminal C currently operates with two trains of two cars each. However, the stations were built to accommodate four car trains, and the track has switches that could allow much higher frequency than what is currently offered.
The peak demand for this APM in the scenario you were refuting would be whatever percentage of total traffic at the AB Terminal is arriving or departing via Terminal C ground transportation.
Total Terminal AB traffic is limited by the capacity of the air side 1-4 APMs, which have three car trains and have a dispatch interval of two minutes.
A back of the envelope calculation (assuming the air side 1-4 APMs have the same capacity per car as the Terminal AB to C APM) says that peak demand for the Terminal AB to C APM would be six cars per minute multiplied by the percentage of travelers using Terminal C ground transportation. If that percentage is less than 67% (I think 67% is definitely the top of the plausibility range) and the Terminal AB to C APM can dispatch every 60 seconds, than this APM would be able to handle the passenger demand if car rental and bus were moved to Terminal C.
I don't think it is likely for the reasons you described, But I think it is technically possible.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Nobody will be forced to use brightline. Most major cities offer a variety of transit options.
I have personally used Lynx, Magical Express, and Uber when traveling from MCO to Disney property.
Lynx??? You are a true adventurer -- or a glutton for punishment.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
It’s more comfortable than the Disney transport busses.Lynx??? You are a true adventurer -- or a glutton for punishment.
Airport to Disney with 1 transfer at sea world. $2.
That must be new. I thought the Lynx bus from the airport transfers at downtown Orlando and goes to WDW.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
You can do that too. There are multiple lynx routes. Either way you’re on the 50 to Disney property.
But oh, the stops! And you're not sitting on a Disney Transport bus for 90 minutes (except on NYE).
Disone
Well-Known Member
But I was speaking as a tourist not a businessman. All the travels I've reference from personal experience have been as a tourist. So I stand by outside of the Walt Disney World experience this really isn't that different from the rest of the world.
At Tokyo Disney I could take a shuttle from the airport to the Tokyo Disney Ambassador Hotel and it made a few stops along the way. I had to pay for that it was not run by Tokyo Disney. Or I could take a shuttle to the other terminal at the airport where I could take a train to terminal near Tokyo Disney where I would then have to take a taxi or walk from that train station to the Tokyo Disney Ambassador Hotel.
I roommate who has traveled to Disneyland Paris has had a very similar Transportation experience getting from Paris to the resort.
The removal of DME really is a poor judgment because it does avoid all of this hassle that is normal. But all I'm saying is that this hassle is fairly benign and normal in the rest of the world. It's kind of like the basics of travel hassels. But DME certainly was a nice benefit of coming to Walt Disney World Resort Hotel.
Tourists get to see the real City Beautiful.