Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
How does I-4 make a profit?
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The interstate highway system in my mind is a poor comparison. This interstate highway system was really created so the US has a known good network or roads to evacuate in case of natural disasters, or to use to move military in case of war.
 
Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
joelkfla said:
Brightline is not building a train line to take people between OIA & WDW; they're building a line between Miami & Orlando, and hopefully between Orlando & Tampa. The WDW stop just expands their market, and makes the train more convenient & attractive to get between WDW & Miami.

Brightline has not even said that they intend to carry local passengers between OIA & WDW. That's all speculation by WDW fans.
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Agreed! And it will fail also.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
I hope I am wrong and will happily be wrong. Let’s see what happens.
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You certainly could be right as well. Just this week I’ve been looking at the rail cars that are up for sale after the bankruptcy of the Iowa Pacific who operated Pullman Rail Journeys as well as the Hoosier State in Indiana. Great equipment, great service - they just didn’t get enough of the market quick enough.

I think Brightline has a shot, but time will tell.
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
Agreed! And it will fail also.
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TrainChasers said:
Many told Walt the same thing about Disneyland....
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Mediocre intercity rail service is not the same thing as a transformative theme park. My big concern with Brightline is that FL won’t make the effort to have a future proof truly high speed (think speeds up to 250-300mph) system that connects to the rest of the eastern seaboard. “Brightline sucks, why try again?”
 
J

joelkfla

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
Mediocre intercity rail service is not the same thing as a transformative theme park. My big concern with Brightline is that FL won’t make the effort to have a future proof truly high speed (think speeds up to 250-300mph) system that connects to the rest of the eastern seaboard. “Brightline sucks, why try again?”
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What makes you think FL would have had any interest in such a project if Brightline had never existed? Are you forgetting that ex-Gov. Scott killed the proposed HSR line between Tampa & Orlando when virtually all of the capital costs would have been covered by the feds?

OTOH, if Brightline is successful, that could boost desire and acceptance for more HSR lines.
 
G

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
joelkfla said:
What makes you think FL would have had any interest in such a project if Brightline had never existed? Are you forgetting that ex-Gov. Scott killed the proposed HSR line between Tampa & Orlando when virtually all of the capital costs would have been covered by the feds?

OTOH, if Brightline is successful, that could boost desire and acceptance for more HSR lines.
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Uh how HS will this HSR be? Will it be HS simply because of fewer stops?
 
G

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
joelkfla said:
What makes you think FL would have had any interest in such a project if Brightline had never existed? Are you forgetting that ex-Gov. Scott killed the proposed HSR line between Tampa & Orlando when virtually all of the capital costs would have been covered by the feds?

OTOH, if Brightline is successful, that could boost desire and acceptance for more HSR lines.
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It will get use but as for some boost or motivation for more doubtful.
 
JoeCamel

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
joelkfla said:
What makes you think FL would have had any interest in such a project if Brightline had never existed? Are you forgetting that ex-Gov. Scott killed the proposed HSR line between Tampa & Orlando when virtually all of the capital costs would have been covered by the feds?

OTOH, if Brightline is successful, that could boost desire and acceptance for more HSR lines.
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I agree, the only way this gets built is with private backing
While I think Scott gives pond scum a bad name I believe he was right to kill the 4B. That link would have obligated Florida for maintenance and had no provision for getting it built to a degree where it would make an impact. Basically a "here's an albatross for your neck". It's a dream to think it would have spurred further development on the scale necessary.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
The interstate highway system in my mind is a poor comparison. This interstate highway system was really created so the US has a known good network or roads to evacuate in case of natural disasters, or to use to move military in case of war.
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Then what about any other road? Or the way single family housing built in a sprawling, dead-end manner that makes walking and transit more difficult and less convenient has been subsidized and in some cases required for decades?

the.dreamfinder said:
Mediocre intercity rail service is not the same thing as a transformative theme park. My big concern with Brightline is that FL won’t make the effort to have a future proof truly high speed (think speeds up to 250-300mph) system that connects to the rest of the eastern seaboard. “Brightline sucks, why try again?”
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I’m more worried that Florida will do things to make success difficult for Brightline.
joelkfla said:
What makes you think FL would have had any interest in such a project if Brightline had never existed? Are you forgetting that ex-Gov. Scott killed the proposed HSR line between Tampa & Orlando when virtually all of the capital costs would have been covered by the feds?

OTOH, if Brightline is successful, that could boost desire and acceptance for more HSR lines.
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He might have done it for the wrong reasons but killing the Tampa-Orlando high speed rail project was a huge win for true rail advocates in the US. The project was a complete boondoggle. A federally subsidized construction jobs project with no actual thought given to its purpose. It would have been incredibly expensive true high speed rail that barely ever used its capability and would not have been meaningfully faster than existing options or even upgraded conventional rail.
 
J

joelkfla

Well-Known Member
GimpYancIent said:
Uh how HS will this HSR be? Will it be HS simply because of fewer stops?
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  • The currently existing stretch between Miami & W. Palm Beach will continue to operate up to 79mph, which is the same as many Amtrak lines.
  • The stretch from W. Palm to Cocoa will use upgraded existing right of way with enhanced protection at grade crossings, and operate up to 110mph.
  • The stretch from Cocoa to OIA is new construction with full grade separation, and will operate up to 125mph.
  • The stretch from OIA to WDW & Tampa is still in planning; it will probably be 125mph running along I-4 to Tampa, but sections between OIA & WDW may be slower.

The definition of HSR varies depending on whom you ask. 125mph is on the border line between Higher Speed Rail and HSR. It is also the maximum service speed for the Siemens trainsets used by Brightline, and for any existing diesel-hauled train.
 
T

TransportationGuy

Active Member
joelkfla said:
No, the new terminal and the intermodal facility are parts of the same complex. There will be a short skywalk.

It's a 4-minute ride on a modern, speedy people mover. Direct, non-stop. Actually, quite a pleasant and scenic ride. No more hassle than riding an elevator.

IIRC, Brightline does screen passengers & carry-ons at its stations. But it's a simple walk thru a metal detector at the ticket check, and carry-ons thru an X-ray belt. No elaborate rigamarole like TSA.

Brightline handles checked baggage at its current stations. If the company decides to provide service between MCO & WDW (which at this time is unknown), and if the WDW station is built to handle checked baggage, hand-off directly from the airlines to Brightline would likely be available.

If the service is provided by SunRail (which is another possibility), there will be no checked baggage (unless Disney provides the service separately), but also no screening under the current model.
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I’m not at all saying that it can’t be done. I just feel confident in saying that it will be messy. People literally cannot find DME and it’s downstairs on the ground floor of the building they’re already in. This makes me less than optimistic about the results
 
J

joelkfla

Well-Known Member
TransportationGuy said:
I’m not at all saying that it can’t be done. I just feel confident in saying that it will be messy. People literally cannot find DME and it’s downstairs on the ground floor of the building they’re already in. This makes me less than optimistic about the results
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OK, some folks might get lost looking for the South People Mover. It's sort of off in a corner. But no doubt there will be plenty of wayfinding signs when train service is up & running.

I'm just saying it wouldn't be as much of a hassle as you made it out to be, especially if a checked baggage interchange can be worked out for domestic passengers.
 

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