Help the Reedy Creek Firefighters

[PhotoDave219]

Considering that Reedy Creek Emergency Services handles 4 main theme parks, 2 water parks, countelss hotels and resorts as well as a cast of 55 thousand employees and god knows how many tourists at any given moment, I really dont see why they shouldnt get the same benefits and treatment as firefighters in any major city.

The Ready Creek Improvement District covers more people and a lot larger area than a lot of Cities and Towns in the world, they deserve to be treated as equals with their big city breathren.

 

[10 min. to wdw]

While I'm not a fire fighter, I do work for the state Of FL. My benefits are ok they pay is below average. I could leave and go to to the disney company and get better benefits with the exception of the retirement is the only thing better with the state. With disney the pay is also higher. Disney also has a shorter work day by the time you factor in all there breaks they get and a paid lunch.

I also think that some of these desk job workers who say firefighters/EMT's and police officers don't make enough money ought to go right down to there local police or fire dept and ask about doing a ride along with them. I work with Orange coutny sherriff's and Orlando Police almost every day and they are underpaid for what they do. Orlando Police dept is also the 7th highest compensated dept in the country and they still deserve more for what they do everyday.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

I'm curious to know what they are paid currently, and if it is scaled based on seniority. Also, someone mentioned a pay rate of just under $12/Hr., which, they stated is less than some fast food employees. Tell me where they are paying over 11/12 dollars an hour for fast food, and I'm there. I'll flip burgers for 12/hr. I don't think that's quite accurate.

I agree that they should be fairly paid the market value for firefighters, but isn't that something that they should have already negotiated with their union? And why have they been without a contract since 2001?

Just asking questions so that I can understand the full scope of this situation.


Brian

 

[caparamedic]

You have got to be kidding !!

I appreciate the risks firefighters take, as should all of us. But I have trouble with all of the people on these boards who apparently have no clue what they are fighting for. I dont see anywhere where the workers state how they stack up to other firefighters in terms of pay and benefits. How many of us in private industry get pensions and relatively cheap health insurance? And finally, how many hours out of a full work day do these firemen actually spend working?

Sorry for the vent, but we as a nation pay way too much money in taxes as it is. And when looking at how governments works with the bureaucracy, slowness, red-tape, disgusting inefficiency, and worst of all the workers sense of "entitlement" to things such as pensions and free health care.

I may need to borrow a fire extinguisher from RCFD after people read this, sorry but these are my feelings.

You are one of those who has "no clue" either.

Here is how it works:

Private jobs pay MORE than comparable government jobs with less benefits and usually less retirement benefits. Example: My wife worked for the big city police department full time and then after our first child was born did the same job for a private company, part time and got paid the same!

Firefighters (that includes women AND men) in Central Florida work 48 hours a week (that's 8 hours more than most folks), and work weekends, holidays, etc. The 24/48 hour schedule actually saves money by reducing the number of shifts required to provide coverage 24 hours a day every day of the year. In addition, many classes are taken "off shift" and overtime is often required to cover for those who are sick or injured.

A far as "full days of work" go, there are times when we don't eat and rarely even get back to the fire station. Granted there are days when we have few calls, but we get paid for what we know, not for what we do! :lol: Remember, you usually don't plan to have a heart attack or car accident at a convenient time! Someone has to be ready to save your life ALL the time.

Firefighting is also one of the three most dangerous jobs on the planet. When we say good bye to our family before we go to work, we hug a little more and my kids and wife always tell me to be careful. They know that dad may not come home from his shift. I have been to too many fire and police funerals and but for the grace of G-d I (or any of my brothers and sisters) could have been the one in the casket.

After September 11th, you would think the public would have a new found appreciation for the men and women who are called to public service in fire, EMS and law enforcement.

When you look at government waste you will have a hard time finding it in the fire service. Many fire stations are substandard and understaffed putting firefighters lives at risk. If you want to know how much money is spent, you can ask the agencies (at least in Florida) for that information. In Florida we have "Government in the Sunshine" and most government records are available on request!

As far as RCFD goes, you can look at the web site, www.reedycreek.org and look at the contract and the pay rates. Nothing is hidden and there are no secrets. You will also see that RCFD employees pay for a good portion of their health care which goes up yearly even if there is no increase in salary. RCFD is now on par with Orange County and Orlando Fire Departments.

Next time you call 911, you will wish your responding agency has all the best equipment and the finest staff available. Wouldn't you want the best doctor to treat you if you were ill? Same thing! When it comes to saving lives, second best is unacceptable.

This is America and we deserve the best! :wave:

 

[monothingie]

Im a vol FF in Northern NJ and the fact that my RCID brothers have been without a contract is disgraceful. Now don't misunderstand me, I am not into making this a union issue, but these guys should be getting a wage that fairly reflects their cost of living and allows them to support their families. Its a tough and draining job and you can see people in their best and in their worst very quickly. The fact that some are playing games with this contract, shows a real contempt for these guys. Now if you ask any member of RC Emergency Services if they're in it for the money, you probably know what the answer will be. All these guys want is to be treated fairly, have good benefits, recieve proper equipment, and have adequate staffing.

Just to address something mentioned previously. When you think of all the services that RCID ES and for that matter any career or voly departments provide to the areas they serve in comparison to their budgets (including benefits) you should be able to see how effectively and efficiently we perform in comparison to the minimal amount of money budgeted.

Lets see a contract now.

-ADN

 

[HennieBogan1966]

You are one of those who has "no clue" either.

Here is how it works:

Private jobs pay MORE than comparable government jobs with less benefits and usually less retirement benefits. Example: My wife worked for the big city police department full time and then after our first child was born did the same job for a private company, part time and got paid the same!

Firefighters (that includes women AND men) in Central Florida work 48 hours a week (that's 8 hours more than most folks), and work weekends, holidays, etc. The 24/48 hour schedule actually saves money by reducing the number of shifts required to provide coverage 24 hours a day every day of the year. In addition, many classes are taken "off shift" and overtime is often required to cover for those who are sick or injured.

A far as "full days of work" go, there are times when we don't eat and rarely even get back to the fire station. Granted there are days when we have few calls, but we get paid for what we know, not for what we do! :lol: Remember, you usually don't plan to have a heart attack or car accident at a convenient time! Someone has to be ready to save your life ALL the time.

Firefighting is also one of the three most dangerous jobs on the planet. When we say good bye to our family before we go to work, we hug a little more and my kids and wife always tell me to be careful. They know that dad may not come home from his shift. I have been to too many fire and police funerals and but for the grace of G-d I (or any of my brothers and sisters) could have been the one in the casket.

After September 11th, you would think the public would have a new found appreciation for the men and women who are called to public service in fire, EMS and law enforcement.

When you look at government waste you will have a hard time finding it in the fire service. Many fire stations are substandard and understaffed putting firefighters lives at risk. If you want to know how much money is spent, you can ask the agencies (at least in Florida) for that information. In Florida we have "Government in the Sunshine" and most government records are available on request!

As far as RCFD goes, you can look at the web site, www.reedycreek.org and look at the contract and the pay rates. Nothing is hidden and there are no secrets. You will also see that RCFD employees pay for a good portion of their health care which goes up yearly even if there is no increase in salary. RCFD is now on par with Orange County and Orlando Fire Departments.

Next time you call 911, you will wish your responding agency has all the best equipment and the finest staff available. Wouldn't you want the best doctor to treat you if you were ill? Same thing! When it comes to saving lives, second best is unacceptable.

This is America and we deserve the best! :wave:

Let me first preface my comments by saying that those who serve in uniform, be it Military, Fire and Rescue, or the Medical Field, don't get nearly the credit or acclaim and respect that they all richly deserve.

Having said that, allow me to make some observations. First, I did read some of the proposal made by the RCFD. Most notably, I went to the sections concerning pay scale. What I didn't see was what the actual pay scales are in real dollars. Now, I would guess that whatever they are being paid isn't enough, but I would be interested to know EXACTLY what they make compared to others in the same field. I think it's important to know those facts when discussing whether or not what they are being paid is fair. Another thing to consider is the size and scope of area that they cover. Let's be honest, Fire Departments serving major metropolitan areas have MUCH more to deal with than would a fire department serving Disney, which is a much more structured and controlled area than say New York, Miami, Dallas, Los Angeles, etc.

I'm also concerned about the fact that people who choose to serve, which is a GREAT thing, now don't like the circumstances under which they work. Again, not saying you don't deserve more, but I don't know that, since I can't see any real pay scales. Saving lives is the most important thing that a person can dedicate him/herself to doing for a living. But as is anything else in life, it's a personal choice made by individuals. Again, I have to believe that in this case here, the union has been a hindrance, and not a help. If individuals are left to negotiate their own deals, they have much more leverage. You SHOULD be paid based on what you do AND what you know. NOT one or the other. Having knowledge is useless if you can't actually put it into action. So, when you put your fate in the hands of someone else, (the union), YOU are at the mercy of whatever is negotiated by them, on your behalf. Some will like the deals, some will not. So, those who don't are just out of luck I guess. On the other hand, if you as individuals negotiated your own deal........

Again, let me say CLEARLY that I am so grateful to those who serve. Having served in the military myself, I can say I have never been prouder than to have served my country, and to have had the opportunity to represent my country. So, I'm NOT attempting to start a war of words here, but rather to move the discussion to questions which I beleive should be answered in order for people to be able to make an informed decision to support this effort.


Thanks for everyones time.


Brian

 

[monothingie]

Having said that, allow me to make some observations. First, I did read some of the proposal made by the RCFD. Most notably, I went to the sections concerning pay scale. What I didn't see was what the actual pay scales are in real dollars. Now, I would guess that whatever they are being paid isn't enough, but I would be interested to know EXACTLY what they make compared to others in the same field. I think it's important to know those facts when discussing whether or not what they are being paid is fair. Another thing to consider is the size and scope of area that they cover. Let's be honest, Fire Departments serving major metropolitan areas have MUCH more to deal with than would a fire department serving Disney, which is a much more structured and controlled area than say New York, Miami, Dallas, Los Angeles, etc.

First, thank you for your service to this country. Many of us owe you a great deal for protecting and defending this country.

To address two of your points: First comparing what personel make in different departments is like comparing apples and oranges. To put it quite simply the cost of living varies greatly accross the country. A FF in the North East for example may make more than one in the south because the cost of living is greater (houses, food, energy, etc) just the same as a cop or a lawyer or a doctor for that matter. There are national averages and statistics for this at www.firehouse.com just search for it.

Second, just because the department is smaller does not mean that they are not as busy or have less to deal with. I believe that WDW has 4 companies over a 47 square mile area. They have to protect hundreds of thousands of guests and CMs (Fire and EMS), supervise pyrotechnics, perform inspections, train, and maintain equipment. NYC for example while greater in population per square mile has a tighter density of fire companies. Which allows runs to be distrubted a little better.

-ADN

 

[HennieBogan1966]

First, thank you for your service to this country. Many of us owe you a great deal for protecting and defending this country.

To address two of your points: First comparing what personel make in different departments is like comparing apples and oranges. To put it quite simply the cost of living varies greatly accross the country. A FF in the North East for example may make more than one in the south because the cost of living is greater (houses, food, energy, etc) just the same as a cop or a lawyer or a doctor for that matter. There are national averages and statistics for this at www.firehouse.com just search for it.

Second, just because the department is smaller does not mean that they are not as busy or have less to deal with. I believe that WDW has 4 companies over a 47 square mile area. They have to protect hundreds of thousands of guests and CMs (Fire and EMS), supervise pyrotechnics, perform inspections, train, and maintain equipment. NYC for example while greater in population per square mile has a tighter density of fire companies. Which allows runs to be distrubted a little better.

-ADN

I think what I am asking for here is to just understand where the RCFD ranks among the national average for pay, benefits, etc. I agree that it's difficult to compare in terms of scope, but when you look at most jobs in this country, the pay is not based on COLA, but rather the "fair market value" for a given position. As an example, I would tell you my pay was adjusted slightly last year, so that I would be getting paid the same as others in my particular position. When in the military, we rountinely received a COLA each year to reflect Federal Tax increases, and not increases in cost of living locally. (our average then was about 4% per year.) Again, I agree that people such as yourselves, who put their lives on the line each day for us, should be paid more for that risk. As well, your death benefits should fairly reflect that risk. But understand that there will be many who will say, that's fine, just don't take it out my taxes. (in other words, no tax increases). Find the money elsewhere. That means tax cuts of local, state, and federally funded programs in some cases. Unfortunately, we ALL pay too much in federal taxes each year, so it's a situation that's VERY close to the surface for many in this country. Just look at the bill that has been introduced recently in Congress to increase the death benefit of military members for the their families from 12 thousand dollars to 100 thousand dollars. 12 thousand dollars for serving your country in combat?!!!! Are you kidding me? Now THAT is disgraceful. But again, that money has to come from somewhere. And guess where that is? Again, not arguing that it's deserved by ALL personnel who serve in uniform. IT IS!!! But it won't come without other programs having to be cut. Question is, which programs should get cut?


Thanks again for YOUR service and putting YOUR life on the line each and every day!!!


Brian

 

[caparamedic]

Im a vol FF in Northern NJ and the fact that my RCID brothers have been without a contract is disgraceful. "

To be fair, if you go back in the thread you will see that we did get a contract (and almost everything we asked for) after 2 1/2 years of negotiations. The support of the public and the pressure of newspaper articles and television news around the country had Disney pressure the District into sitting down to hammer out a fair contract. I think some e-mails from folks in the WDWMAGIC group helped too! In the end, it proves that the firefighters union was critical to get fair treatment and safe working conditions. Without it, no one would have stepped up to support the firefighters.

The new contract is available on line at www.reedycreek.org . Supporters and friends of the Reedy Creek Firefighters have their own Yahoo! Group at http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ReedyCreekFD/ .

By the way....my paramedic partner is from New Jersey and I used to be a vol in NY a LONG time ago with my dad.

Best wishes and thank you for being supportive. :sohappy:

 

[caparamedic]

Saving lives is the most important thing that a person can dedicate him/herself to doing for a living. But as is anything else in life, it's a personal choice made by individuals. Again, I have to believe that in this case here, the union has been a hindrance, and not a help. If individuals are left to negotiate their own deals, they have much more leverage.

In the case of RCFD the union is the only way to go. Individuals could have never put pressure on the District. The District is not made up of elected officials. The only way they get pressure is from the taxpayer, which is mainly Disney. The threat of having multiple unions protest on District property or having unions refuse to cross picket lines, puts lots of pressure on the District to step up to the plate and deal. The union was able to hire a professional negotiator, lawyers and have the support of the IAFF which actively worked to secure the contract worth MILLIONS of dollars. How would individuals accomplish that?

By the way.....fire fighting is the same whether in NYC, Witchita, Las Vegas, Key West, etc. The job does not change. RCFD responds to Orlando and with Orange and Osceola Counties on a regular basis and must perform to the same standards as other departments. EMS is the same way....we follow the same protocols as the rest of Orange County and even share the same medical director. That RCFD prevents fires better than most shows that what we know is critical for safe operations and saves lives and property. :kiss:

 

[waltdisny]

I'm curious to know what they are paid currently, and if it is scaled based on seniority. Also, someone mentioned a pay rate of just under $12/Hr., which, they stated is less than some fast food employees. Tell me where they are paying over 11/12 dollars an hour for fast food, and I'm there. I'll flip burgers for 12/hr. I don't think that's quite accurate.
Brian

Hennie: McDonald's Bethel Road at Carriage Place, Columbus, OH. Sign out front last fall said: Now hiring- $10/hr. Want the number?

Reserving additional comments on illogical anti-union rhetoric inorder to honor past promises.:zipit:

I wish the Union Brothers of the RCFD all the best in their negotiations.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Hennie: McDonald's Bethel Road at Carriage Place, Columbus, OH. Sign out front last fall said: Now hiring- $10/hr. Want the number?

Reserving additional comments on illogical anti-union rhetoric inorder to honor past promises.:zipit:

I wish the Union Brothers of the RCFD all the best in their negotiations.

Again, I wasn't trying to start a war of words, just asking questions. And just because someone may not be pro union, does not make his/her comments rhetoric. I you read my previous comments, you would see that I did in fact read thru some of the proposal of the RCFD and found there was no definitive information concerning pay scales. And the fast food pay scale comments are based on the fact that most people in this country complain about how it's impossible to find good paying jobs in this country these days.
Are you now saying that's NOT true? Well, well, well. I wonder what all that RHETORIC was then during the Presidential campaign concerning how people aren't able to find good paying jobs?!!! If there are fast food businesses out there now paying 10$/hr, I'd say that we've made some great progress from my days as a teenager, when the going rate was UNDER 5$/hr. I'm not trying to make this about politics but I use that statement to bring to light the FACT that what may be a lot of money to SOME may NOT be to others. It does in fact depend on your cost of living. Some of which is personal choice. The more you like having in life, the more it's going to cost you. Hence, the more you would need to make in order to live.

All I am asking about is what they are paid in comparison to similar fire houses, working a similar scope. That's all. And as usual, no one seems to be able to provide FACTUAL data. That seems to always be the problem concerning discussions about unions. It always seems that the company is the bad guy, but we never seem to get the whole story.

Again, only trying to obtain information. I too wish them the best in their negotiations. And once again, if YOU WOULD READ MY COMMENTS you would see how I was and am very supportive of what they do for all of us.

Please don't turn this personal and let's stay on topic.


Thanks,


Brian

 

[HennieBogan1966]

To be fair, if you go back in the thread you will see that we did get a contract (and almost everything we asked for) after 2 1/2 years of negotiations. The support of the public and the pressure of newspaper articles and television news around the country had Disney pressure the District into sitting down to hammer out a fair contract. I think some e-mails from folks in the WDWMAGIC group helped too! In the end, it proves that the firefighters union was critical to get fair treatment and safe working conditions. Without it, no one would have stepped up to support the firefighters.

The new contract is available on line at www.reedycreek.org . Supporters and friends of the Reedy Creek Firefighters have their own Yahoo! Group at http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ReedyCreekFD/ .

By the way....my paramedic partner is from New Jersey and I used to be a vol in NY a LONG time ago with my dad.

Best wishes and thank you for being supportive. :sohappy:

First, Thank You for your responses, which have been fair, and on topic. I find the comments regarding the pressure put on by individuals, as being key to getting a new contract hammered out. That's what I am truly saying here. That the support, pressure, and actions of individuals helped provide the impetus for getting this deal done. Maybe your union was helpful in this. I can't comment as I wasn't there to experience it. My observation is just that, based on some past experiences in businesses that were affected by unions. (both their patronage, and lack of patronage during strikes). So, my experiences, to say the least, have been fairly negative on the whole. This isn't to paint with a broad brush here, but to offer commentary based on some experiences.

What I DO find troubling for BOTH sides of this negotiation, is that those in charge on BOTH sides could ever allow it to get to the point of working without a contract in place. That shows TRUE dedication on the part of the workers who agree to continue to show up each day without a contract. But it also shows a lack of preparation and leadership on the part of those charged with making sure that contracts are seamless.

Brian

 

[BG Rugger]

Again, I wasn't trying to start a war of words, just asking questions. And just because someone may not be pro union, does not make his/her comments rhetoric. I you read my previous comments, you would see that I did in fact read thru some of the proposal of the RCFD and found there was no definitive information concerning pay scales. And the fast food pay scale comments are based on the fact that most people in this country complain about how it's impossible to find good paying jobs in this country these days.
Are you now saying that's NOT true? Well, well, well. I wonder what all that RHETORIC was then during the Presidential campaign concerning how people aren't able to find good paying jobs?!!! If there are fast food businesses out there now paying 10$/hr, I'd say that we've made some great progress from my days as a teenager, when the going rate was UNDER 5$/hr. I'm not trying to make this about politics but I use that statement to bring to light the FACT that what may be a lot of money to SOME may NOT be to others. It does in fact depend on your cost of living. Some of which is personal choice. The more you like having in life, the more it's going to cost you. Hence, the more you would need to make in order to live.

All I am asking about is what they are paid in comparison to similar fire houses, working a similar scope. That's all. And as usual, no one seems to be able to provide FACTUAL data. That seems to always be the problem concerning discussions about unions. It always seems that the company is the bad guy, but we never seem to get the whole story.

Again, only trying to obtain information. I too wish them the best in their negotiations. And once again, if YOU WOULD READ MY COMMENTS you would see how I was and am very supportive of what they do for all of us.

Please don't turn this personal and let's stay on topic.


Thanks,


Brian

Unfortunately the McDonalds paying $10/hour is definately not a normal example of how fast food jobs pay around the country. Trust me, being a college kid looking to make some money to buy books I know. A lot of people are hurting around the country, especially in Ohio. Over 1,000 people in my hometown are out of a job because our manufacturing and processing plants closed down. Without the union another 300 would have beren out of work a few weeks ago, including my father.. Do unions have a bad side? Yeah, all things do. But it shouldn't be overshadowed by all the people they've helped. If you wanna paint a rosey picture for how people are living go ahead. Couldn't help but notice you're from Texas. How ironic.

 

[caparamedic]

What I DO find troubling for BOTH sides of this negotiation, is that those in charge on BOTH sides could ever allow it to get to the point of working without a contract in place. That shows TRUE dedication on the part of the workers who agree to continue to show up each day without a contract. But it also shows a lack of preparation and leadership on the part of those charged with making sure that contracts are seamless.

Brian

Brian,

Absolutely true! The RCFD Firefighters local tried to get the District to sit down to negotiate in October 2001 (pretty sure about that). That contract expired on December 31, 2001. They refused and tried to use 9-11 as an excuse not to negotiate stating that they were "unsure how the economy would be changing". The union had all their proposals ready in writing and were ready to deal.

In Reedy Creek's situation the union has proven to be a benefit to the members. That is why membership stands at 98% of all those eligible and membership has grown to an record level. Our fire inspectors who were part of the union a long time ago and left, have come back to the union and rejoined during our negotiation process. I still think that was a bold move since they didn't know how those negotiations would pan out! Can you imagine joining a union that didn't have a current contract and perhaps no hope of getting another one? That was the situation when they joined us.

With no real taxpayers and no elected officials, the union is the best choice for our members. In Central Florida there is only one fire department (Apopka Fire Rescue) that is not represented by a union. Oh yes, the Orlando International Airport has no union yet. That says a lot for an open shop, right to work state like Florida.

By the way....Rural Metro Ambulance, Orlando (where many EMTs and Paramedics get their first jobs) used to pay 8$/hour for a Paramedic about 7 years ago. They now have a union and I think they now start at $14-17/hr. My first full time fire fighting job paid $8.50/hr and their union was just forming back then. Now they have a union and their pay rate is considerably more!
:wave:

 

[monothingie]

I think this will clear somethings up but also maybe fan the flames (pardon my punn)

I found these statistics by the US Dept of Labor regarding earnings and benefits for FFs, officers, inspectors.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos158.htm#earnings

Regards,
-ADN

 

[caparamedic]

Thank you for the link!

Great link. I'm going to post that link on our Yahoo! Groups! Great information. :slurp:

 

[funkbucket007]

I'll be down from March 20th - 26th & will purchase a shirt or two. Now, do I need to go to Station 1 or 4?

Jason Carlisle
Local 3180
Clarksville, TN

 

[caparamedic]

Tee shirts are at Station 4, 1920 E. Buena Vista Drive, Lake Buena Vista, FL. Next to the Wyndham Palace Resort and accross from Saratoga Springs Resort. $15 each when purchased at the fire station.

 

[funkbucket007]

Tee shirts are at Station 4, 1920 E. Buena Vista Drive, Lake Buena Vista, FL. Next to the Wyndham Palace Resort and accross from Saratoga Springs Resort. $15 each when purchased at the fire station.

Stupid question...what is that within walking distance from? I'll be staying @ Pop Century & relying on Disney transportation. Can I walk from DTD? If it won't be easy to get there, I'll order them before our trip. What's the turn around on these?