News Hatbox Ghost coming to Walt Disney World's Haunted Mansion

[raymusiccity]

Right or wrong, Disney has developed a reputation for announcing things to the public that never go anywhere, and for taking an insanely long time to build anything. Sure, things are announced for the future. But I can understand frustration that they announce an animatronic and then get to the next event a year later and construction hasn't even started on that little announcement.

The problem is the neuter their own excitement. The announcements can begin to cease pushing any needles because people simply don't believe them. I mean, just read through here the number of people who are chastising the company for missing a date for opening that they haven't even gotten to yet. Go look at the AK announcements and everyone just laughing at them. In a business where trips take lots of time to plan out, people not believing your timelines for new things (let alone expecting them to be built at all) could be a real issue.

I'm sure the delay for Hatbox Ghost installation is simply a supply chain issue!

 

[LSLS]

That's where a think my confusion comes in. I don't really see where Disney takes an insanely long time to build things. Announcements at the expo are general statements of intent. They aren't planning meetings or schedule discussions. Once Disney actually issues notices to proceed, most of their projects move pretty smoothly, as far as construction projects go. For the most part, I haven't seen many occasions where at these expos they are setting out definitive timelines. Its more superfans going to the events, hearing something is coming, and in their own minds establishing when they think rides/construction should be completed, which inevitably seems to be as soon as possible, as opposed to any overall construction operations planning.

Maybe they don't take that long from when they begin construction to when they complete (though I'm not sure I even believe that when I look at things recently), but again, that's not the perception, and that's all that matters with these things. People assume when Disney is bold enough to make announcements on things, they are ready to begin. Sure, them announcing something is coming doesn't mean it's ready to begin work. BUT, I'm not sure it's out of line to expect that something announced as coming to a park at a D23 will at least be started by the NEXT D23. And I think history usually plays that out. Just quick look, Runaway Rail and Cosmic rewind were announced at the 2017 D23, and the rides they took over both closed in August of that year. Tron was announced there as well, and construction starts in Feb. Same with the Moana attraction if I remember correctly. Space 220 I don't have specific dates that they began construction from what I've seen, but by November of 2018 construction had definitely begun based on Google Earth. Again, perception is reality. If people percieve this as an issue, it's a large issue for the company in my eyes.

 

[Andrew25]

You're comparing Tron's timeline to when it was built around the pandemic. I don't think anything constructed around 2020-2022 is a valid comparison.

Velocicoaster would like a word, they kept construction through 2020 and opened it in 2021.

Also, reference the Polynesian DVC for how quickly Disney can build if they are financially motivated.

Even Epic Universe looks far more complete than the Epcot hub.

 

[HauntedPirate]

This is a good point. A teaser at D23 isn’t the same as “announcing the commencement of a project.” Yet some here—even those with experience in marketing—can’t seem to tell the difference.

Others still—people with no experience in the management of large-scale or high-tech construction projects—insist absolutely that Disney projects shouldn’t take as long (or cost as much) as they do.

I’ll just be over here enjoying the fact that new, high-tech versions of Rolly Crump’s designs are being added to the Haunted Mansion.

Well, some people around here who have knowledge of Disney's internal costs and project work are critical of them, does that count? I remember people slamming Rohde for his "fact-finding trips" to Nepal during the Everest project, and that entire thing came in at $100 million. I don't recall what the FL expansion cost. Galaxy's Edge? $1 billion. Each. Guardians - a rumored (and sources indicate this is fairly accurate) $450 million. Their costs are out of control, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Remember when Disney denied anything was being built where Bay Lake Tower is until about 4-5 months before it opened? What's worse - That or announcing the HBG a year before they started physical work on it?

That being said, while I don't think this particular thing is taking an inordinate amount of time for the reasons laid out previously, it's the announcement of it 15 months ago and then work only beginning in August is what has people up in arms. A valid criticism, IMHO. It exposes their sham of announcing things just to have things to announce but with no solid plans to actually following through on at the time of the announcement. If they want to make a real splash, make the announcement after the 3-day closure of the ride that started the groundwork for the enhancement. Keep some mystery to things and you eliminate a lot of the vocal criticisms being directed at Disney.

 

[celluloid]

Velocicoaster would like a word, they kept construction through 2020 and opened it in 2021.

Also, reference the Polynesian DVC for how quickly Disney can build if they are financially motivated.

Even Epic Universe looks far more complete than the Epcot hub.

The funniest thing about the Tron situation people try and find reasons for is that it was under construction for over 2 years before any supply or other pandemic issues would arise. Winter 2018 to Winter 2020.

 

[Andrew25]

That being said, while I don't think this particular thing is taking an inordinate amount of time for the reasons laid out previously, it's the announcement of it 15 months ago and then work only beginning in August is what has people up in arms. A valid criticism, IMHO. It exposes their sham of announcing things just to have things to announce but with no commitment to actually following through at the time of the announcement. If they want to make a real splash, make the announcement after the 3-day closure of the ride that started the groundwork for the enhancement. Keep some mystery to things and you eliminate a lot of the vocal criticisms being directed at Disney.

I think Disney just needs to take a step back and only announce things once they are properly financed/scheduled. Too many projects are announced far too in advance of proper approvals.

The funniest thing about the Tron situation people try and find reasons for is that it was under construction for over 2 years before any supply or other pandemic issues would arise. Winter 2018 to Winter 2020.

Same with GOTG Cosmic Rewind, Energy Adventure closed in 2017 and didn't open until 2022.
Dueling Dragons closed the same month at Universal, Hagrid's opened in 2019.

I don't get why fans continue to defend Disney's slow timelines. As fans, we should be criticizing/challenging them, not defending everything.

 

[FigmentFan82]

Most major Disney projects do not utilize the standard design-bid-build project delivery process where a project is first designed and then built. They often use aspects of fast-track project delivery (that's just what it is called, it is not a description of what you think is an appropriate timeline) where construction overlaps with design work. Projects like TRON break ground well before design work is complete.

if implemented well, in general, is this an effective method both in final product and overall cost?

 

[celluloid]

I think Disney just needs to take a step back and only announce things once they are properly financed/scheduled. Too many projects are announced far too in advance of proper approvals.


Same with GOTG Cosmic Rewind, Energy Adventure closed in 2017 and didn't open until 2022.
Dueling Dragons closed the same month at Universal, Hagrid's opened in 2019.

I don't get why fans continue to defend Disney's slow timelines. As fans, we should be criticizing/challenging them, not defending everything.

And don't forget Runaway Railway. Started work in late 2017 and opened in early 2020 just before pandemic shutdown. So that took way too long too.

People just make excuses...common around here you see.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No one is saying the current management culture is great. No one is saying that they don’t announce things way too early in order to pad D23. No one is saying that they don’t stretch out timelines on larger projects. No one is saying that this single animatronic is a substantial and satisfying addition to the parks.

Easy way to fix all that is STOP doing it and get indignant/act like you’re right all the time

All that is being said is that the actual timeline for this thing is not out of the ordinary and that there are not any roadblocks from management holding this up.

You sure?

The “blue sky concept” nonsense is a 100% pure from the top management shell game.

Which indicates that all park projects are subject to interference on the corporate level.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

The funniest thing about the Tron situation people try and find reasons for is that it was under construction for over 2 years before any supply or other pandemic issues would arise. Winter 2018 to Winter 2020.

You don't have to try and find reasons that Tron took as long as it did to open, the reasons are there, even if you don't like them.

First you do have the pandemic. Anyone who thinks it didn't have an effect on construction related projects, is simply uniformed, naive, or just plain stupid. This leaves aside the fact that Universal may have kept construction going while WDW may have chosen not to. It was a decision WDW made on a macro level, not geared towards Tron.

And that leads into the overarching reason it took so long to open Tron, Disney had no reason to push construction. Once the initial schedule was blown, there was no reason to rush construction. You had the post covid closing pop of people going to the parks, you had the 50th anniversary, you had Rat coming on line, and Guardians soon thereafter. Other than just listening to people who don't budget the projects or pay the bills saying to build everything as fast as possible, there was absolutely no reason to push tron's construction/opening sooner than it did open. Why open it up right on top of Guardians, and them have nothing else coming on line? The pacing was done intentionally to keep to an overall plan of rides coming on line, not just pushing forward to get it done as fast as possible.

Now with the Splash re-work, you have reasons to get that project done at speed. Unlike Tron, or Guardians, you have an existing and widely popular ride down and out of service. There is a purpose to get the project done quickly and the ride back up and running. If you want to judge Disney's ability in connection with the speed of construction, that is the project to look at as there is actually an incentive to get it done quickly.

 

[_caleb]

.Their costs are out of control, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

No. You can say something like “their costs are extremely high,” and I’d agree. But on what basis can you say “out of control?” How much should these things cost? Just “less?”

Remember when Disney denied anything was being built where Bay Lake Tower is until about 4-5 months before it opened? What's worse - That or announcing the HBG a year before they started physical work on it?

That being said, while I don't think this particular thing is taking an inordinate amount of time for the reasons laid out previously, it's the announcement of it 15 months ago and then work only beginning in August is what has people up in arms. A valid criticism, IMHO. It exposes their sham of announcing things just to have things to announce but with no commitment to actually following through at the time of the announcement. If they want to make a real splash, make the announcement after the 3-day closure of the ride that started the groundwork for the enhancement. Keep some mystery to things and you eliminate a lot of the vocal criticisms being directed at Disney.

This is all an opinion on Disney’s approaches to marketing and communication about new things.

Disney could wait until projects are further along to even mention them. But they’ve leaned into conversation with the fan communities with early discussion about ideas, blue sky concepts, and concept art. It’s easy to recommend a different strategy when you’re watching from outside.

I’d hope we could tell the difference between “fan convention fodder” and “an official project announcement,” but maybe not.

 

[celluloid]

You don't have to try and find reasons that Tron took as long as it did to open, the reasons are there, even if you don't like them.

First you do have the pandemic. Anyone who thinks it didn't have an effect on construction related projects, is simply uniformed, naive, or just plain stupid. This leaves aside the fact that Universal may have kept construction going while WDW may have chosen not to. It was a decision WDW made on a macro level, not geared towards Tron.

Stop right there and re-read what others have said.

Tron broke ground early 2018 Even if it would have opened by 2021 was the inital plan, that would be before the pandemic. And was always the plan *fixed for typo nearly 3 years was always the plan.
and three years or more of construction when it was going as planned. All pandemic did was add another year. Even with that forgiveness.

3 years plus for Tron.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Covid had little impact on construction in the end. Supply costs rose…but tons of cash was poured in from the public sector into the private to keep things moving.

 

[_caleb]

I think Disney just needs to take a step back and only announce things once they are properly financed/scheduled. Too many projects are announced far too in advance of proper approvals.


Same with GOTG Cosmic Rewind, Energy Adventure closed in 2017 and didn't open until 2022.
Dueling Dragons closed the same month at Universal, Hagrid's opened in 2019.

I don't get why fans continue to defend Disney's slow timelines. As fans, we should be criticizing/challenging them, not defending everything.

We’re not defending slow timelines. We’re just able to see how marketing and communication is separate from a design and build project.

Have you considered how much excitement, discussion, competition, and money Disney generates by sharing ideas before they’re even fully baked?

 

[celluloid]

We’re not defending slow timelines. We’re just able to see how marketing and communication is separate from a design and build project.

Have you considered how much excitement, discussion, competition, and money Disney generates by sharing ideas before they’re even fully baked?

The things quoted from Andrew 25 are not including announcements, but building timelines. He is speaking of people defneding slow builds.

 

[James Alucobond]

I think Disney just needs to take a step back and only announce things once they are properly financed/scheduled. Too many projects are announced far too in advance of proper approvals.

I imagine this is increasingly difficult with the expectations they have built around D23 coupled with the slowing pace of updates.

 

[LSLS]

We’re not defending slow timelines. We’re just able to see how marketing and communication is separate from a design and build project.

Have you considered how much excitement, discussion, competition, and money Disney generates by sharing ideas before they’re even fully baked?

Again though, this appears to be a very new thing. And while it may help them initially, I think that novelty wears off VERY quickly, and instead takes away excitement even when opening dates get close.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

That being said, while I don't think this particular thing is taking an inordinate amount of time for the reasons laid out previously, it's the announcement of it 15 months ago and then work only beginning in August is what has people up in arms. A valid criticism, IMHO. It exposes their sham of announcing things just to have things to announce but with no solid plans to actually following through on at the time of the announcement. If they want to make a real splash, make the announcement after the 3-day closure of the ride that started the groundwork for the enhancement. Keep some mystery to things and you eliminate a lot of the vocal criticisms being directed at Disney.

I think this is a crux here, but I don't see the validity of the criticism.

I mean theses expos are really just fan service events, and if anything free focus groups. They aren't general marketing events or PR type features. The people who are taking time off of work, and spending money to go to events to listen and talk about Disney are both 1) already fans of Disney and likely have and going to again vacation at Disney no matter what, and B) very small minority of Disney's overall customer base. To the vast majority of the people who vacation at Disney, they have never heard of these expos, and have no idea what is said at them. These expos are for hard core fanatics, message board people, DVC people who are locked into the Disney experience.

The real "announcements" and PR for new rides features, lands, ect., aren't part of these fan expos. They are part of the holiday special on ABC, which has lead ins the week before on all the ABC affiliated morning shows. Or they are part of some other prime time feature special geared towards the main stream general public. If you read these message boards, after those specials, more times than not you see pages of commentary about them not containing anything "new."
What I think people don't recognizes is that for most people the information there was new to them. Most people, to the extent they know Haunted Mansion is getting something new, didn't hear about it at the last Disney Expo, so they aren't dealing with the so called log delay in announcement to construction.

The expos are glorified gab sessions. They aren't scheduling conferences and they aren't binding. It's not a sham to announce your going to do something, and then do it, but do it on your own timetable. It's also not a sham to say hey, we are thinking about doing this, and then change your mind later on.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Again though, this appears to be a very new thing. And while it may help them initially, I think that novelty wears off VERY quickly, and instead takes away excitement even when opening dates get close.

The “announcement” strategy seems plain as day to me as an attempt to build half the aggregate stuff needed over double the time to push margins and double the PR benefit…

…but just my opinion…and I’m never right

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this is a crux here, but I don't see the validity of the criticism.

I mean theses expos are really just fan service events, and if anything free focus groups. They aren't general marketing events or PR type features. The people who are taking time off of work, and spending money to go to events to listen and talk about Disney are both 1) already fans of Disney and likely have and going to again vacation at Disney no matter what, and B) very small minority of Disney's overall customer base. To the vast majority of the people who vacation at Disney, they have never heard of these expos, and have no idea what is said at them. These expos are for hard core fanatics, message board people, DVC people who are locked into the Disney experience.

The real "announcements" and PR for new rides features, lands, ect., aren't part of these fan expos. They are part of the holiday special on ABC, which has lead ins the week before on all the ABC affiliated morning shows. Or they are part of some other prime time feature special geared towards the main stream general public. If you read these message boards, after those specials, more times than not you see pages of commentary about them not containing anything "new."
What I think people don't recognizes is that for most people the information there was new to them. Most people, to the extent they know Haunted Mansion is getting something new, didn't hear about it at the last Disney Expo, so they aren't dealing with the so called log delay in announcement to construction.

The expos are glorified gab sessions. They aren't scheduling conferences and they aren't binding. It's not a sham to announce your going to do something, and then do it, but do it on your own timetable. It's also not a sham to say hey, we are thinking about doing this, and then change your mind later on.

If you’re saying that D23 is nonsense and we shouldn’t pay it any mind…you probably have a point there