News Hatbox Ghost coming to Walt Disney World's Haunted Mansion

[GhostHost1000]

We’re not defending slow timelines. We’re just able to see how marketing and communication is separate from a design and build project.

Have you considered how much excitement, discussion, competition, and money Disney generates by sharing ideas before they’re even fully baked?

Have you considered how much frustration and negative opinion (questioning their lack of decision making and direction) occurs when they share questionable ideas and don’t commit to building anything of substance anytime soon (over the last 2 years at D23)?

 

[LSLS]

The “announcement” strategy seems plain as day to me as an attempt to build half the aggregate stuff needed over double the time to push margins and double the PR benefit…

…but just my opinion…and I’m never right

I'm sure that's the thought process of it, but I'm not fully convinced it will work. Again, the amount of people in this thread alone that have gone off about missing a deadline they haven't missed yet just because it feels like this should have been done so long ago. This concept just feels like such a short-term solution that will backfire in just a few years.

 

[celluloid]

Hilarious to think that any first official announcement from a company is not PR based. That is literally the team in charge of it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is a good point. A teaser at D23 isn’t the same as “announcing the commencement of a project.”

The announcements do tend to come closer to kickoff than completion.

Velocicoaster would like a word, they kept construction through 2020 and opened it in 2021.

Also, reference the Polynesian DVC for how quickly Disney can build if they are financially motivated.

Even Epic Universe looks far more complete than the Epcot hub.

Velocicoaster was not something that could easily be mothballed. Pushing forward was the cheapest course of action. Let's not pretend that Universal didn't panic just as much, if not more, than Disney. They absolutely decimated Universal Creative and are still working on building back what they lost.

A hotel is not really the same as an attraction. It was also announced later (because there are issues with announcing timeshares, see Bay Lake Tower) and the work is in a phase where progress is easy to notice.

I think Disney just needs to take a step back and only announce things once they are properly financed/scheduled. Too many projects are announced far too in advance of proper approvals.

They typically do announce things after Feasibility and approval. That's the problem, they announce too early in the design process.

if implemented well, in general, is this an effective method both in final product and overall cost?

Yes, it can be. It's definitely most effective when you truly are committed to a known and established design. Having contractors bid on work doesn't work very well when you're doing one-off custom work because the contractors lack the sort of comparisons they use to create estimates. TRON is a case where it was rather effectively employed. While there was all sorts of work that had to be done, the overall shape, size and program was known so you could get started on things like the site while design work was really just getting going.

And that leads into the overarching reason it took so long to open Tron, Disney had no reason to push construction. Once the initial schedule was blown, there was no reason to rush construction. You had the post covid closing pop of people going to the parks, you had the 50th anniversary, you had Rat coming on line, and Guardians soon thereafter. Other than just listening to people who don't budget the projects or pay the bills saying to build everything as fast as possible, there was absolutely no reason to push tron's construction/opening sooner than it did open. Why open it up right on top of Guardians, and them have nothing else coming on line? The pacing was done intentionally to keep to an overall plan of rides coming on line, not just pushing forward to get it done as fast as possible.

The initial schedule was blown because Disney decided to mothball the project, a situation that only lasted about a month but caused chaos by jettisoning and then having to reacquire resources. The final pacing was not intentional. Disney absolutely could have made the decision to continue on with work and then delay opening so that they were not stuck having to reactivate a project.

No. You can say something like “their costs are extremely high,” and I’d agree. But on what basis can you say “out of control?” How much should these things cost? Just “less?”

A great example is Time Traveler as Silver Dollar City versus Slinky Dog Dash. They're both dual launch roller coasters from Mack Rides. Transportation to Missouri is further from Germany than Florida. Labor cost more in Missouri. The terrain is more challenging in Missouri. They're as close as you can get outside of clones to a comparison and yet the Disney coaster cost about 2.5x as much.

Stop right there and re-read what others have said.

Tron broke ground early 2018 Even if it would have opened by 2021 was the inital plan, that would be before the pandemic. And was always the plan *fixed for typo nearly 3 years was always the plan.
and three years or more of construction when it was going as planned. All pandemic did was add another year. Even with that forgiveness.

3 years plus for Tron.

How long does it take you to just read 1,000 pages?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm sure that's the thought process of it, but I'm not fully convinced it will work. Again, the amount of people in this thread alone that have gone off about missing a deadline they haven't missed yet just because it feels like this should have been done so long ago. This concept just feels like such a short-term solution that will backfire in just a few years.

It’s worked to this point…but it’s cracking

The relative investment from 2005-present has been rather pathetic…which is why the parks are aging badly and underequipped for their customers.

It’s a 1:1

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Not sure wh

Stop right there and re-read what others have said.

Tron broke ground early 2018 Even if it would have opened by 2021 was the inital plan, that would be before the pandemic. And was always the plan *fixed for typo nearly 3 years was always the plan.
and three years or more of construction when it was going as planned. All pandemic did was add another year. Even with that forgiveness.

3 years plus for Tron.

Not really sure I understand what you're saying here.

Covid 19 impacts began in the fall of 2019. Plant slowdowns, and shutdowns in China were beginning as early as October/November of 2019, even if the mainstream western media didn't really start covering the problems there until December of 19.

Shutdowns in the US began in the first quarter of 2020, with WDW closing down in March 20.

So in order for Tron to have been completed before the pandemic shutdown, it would have had to have been completed in less than 2 years, in the face of starting supply issues from abroad.

Once you did get the covid shutdown, any previous schedule you had was out the window. And while i am once construction began post shutdown Tron COULD have been built faster, with Rat and Guardians, and the 50th anniversery, and pent up travel demand, there was no reason to rush construction and opening the ride and faster than it was.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Covid 19 impacts began in the fall of 2019. Plant slowdowns, and shutdowns in China were beginning as early as October/November of 2019, even if the mainstream western media didn't really start covering the problems there until December of 19.

Cite?

 

[Andrew25]

You don't have to try and find reasons that Tron took as long as it did to open, the reasons are there, even if you don't like them.

First you do have the pandemic. Anyone who thinks it didn't have an effect on construction related projects, is simply uniformed, naive, or just plain stupid. This leaves aside the fact that Universal may have kept construction going while WDW may have chosen not to. It was a decision WDW made on a macro level, not geared towards Tron.

And that leads into the overarching reason it took so long to open Tron, Disney had no reason to push construction. Once the initial schedule was blown, there was no reason to rush construction. You had the post covid closing pop of people going to the parks, you had the 50th anniversary, you had Rat coming on line, and Guardians soon thereafter. Other than just listening to people who don't budget the projects or pay the bills saying to build everything as fast as possible, there was absolutely no reason to push tron's construction/opening sooner than it did open. Why open it up right on top of Guardians, and them have nothing else coming on line? The pacing was done intentionally to keep to an overall plan of rides coming on line, not just pushing forward to get it done as fast as possible.

What you are essentially defending is that WDW intentionally delayed Tron to "fill in the gap" to artificially schedule/spread attraction openings to make it appear as if they are building stuff every year instead of working on new projects. They could have gone "big" for the 50th with Rat/Tron/GOTG and then start working on newer projects... they chose to delay/push back spending.

We’re not defending slow timelines. We’re just able to see how marketing and communication is separate from a design and build project.

Have you considered how much excitement, discussion, competition, and money Disney generates by sharing ideas before they’re even fully baked?

Excitement from Tron? Last I heard people are disappointed or find it as "just ok" due to the long lead time/built-up hype for it.

Universal rushed Velocicoaster's opening and it has resulted in ridiculous growth at the park (#2 visited park in Orlando if TEA is right in 2022)

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Cite?

You can look on some of the public filings from companies like CSCEC or China State Decorations Group in connection with prefabricated components of commercial buildings. To be fair I don't know first hand if any of the construction for Tron relied upon was getting parts from anyone there but anyone who was involved in large scale commercial construction, or employed by asian parent companies would be able to point to the timing.

 

[celluloid]

To be fair I don't know first hand if any of the construction for Tron relied upon was getting parts from anyone there but anyone who was involved in large scale commercial construction, or employed by asian parent companies would be able to point to the timing.

Then maybe don't use it as an excuse when there are countless examples against it, as well as not hindering work for other major rollercoasters and theme park attractions across the world?

 

[flynnibus]

Yep, and before anyone says they should be rushing in sooner.. they can’t. Things have to be properly powered down and safety procedures followed. And they can’t take all of the hours the attraction is closed because maintenance also has work that needs to be done every night and depending on the nature of the work and if maintenance needs the ride running, WDI will not be able to be in the building while it’s taking place. And then all will need to be out hours before the park opens so they can get everything tested and running again.

So how long do they really need? Instead of having 3hrs a day over months, why not take 3 days of downtime and just get it done? If they can't design a system to be dropped in during a specific window, I still question they are doing. Spend your time setting up infrastructure, then execute your integration in a planned window. I mean, it's a job, but a job you plan for and obviously the company has a history of how to build such systems. When you have limited availability, you spend your time and energy to maximize the window you have.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

What you are essentially defending is that WDW intentionally delayed Tron to "fill in the gap" to artificially schedule/spread attraction openings to make it appear as if they are building stuff every year instead of working on new projects. They could have gone "big" for the 50th with Rat/Tron/GOTG and then start working on newer projects... they chose to delay/push back spending.


Excitement from Tron? Last I heard people are disappointed or find it as "just ok" due to the long lead time/built-up hype for it.

Universal rushed Velocicoaster's opening and it has resulted in ridiculous growth at the park (#2 visited park in Orlando if TEA is right in 2022)

Common sense doesn't need defending, nor does Disney, one of the largest most successful companies in the world need defending from anyone, let along people on message boards.

That being said, yes, I think it makes perfect sense to stage new ride/feature openings. It makes sense to steadily keep bringing on new things, rather than burying a bunch of new things all at once....on top of a big event that is already going to be driving people to the parks anyway. You consider your offerings as a business as part of an overall marketing/business plan. It's not just rush rush rush to get everything done as quickly as possible and then move on to something else.

 

[_caleb]

Have you considered how much frustration and negative opinion (questioning their lack of decision making and direction) occurs when they share questionable ideas and don’t commit to building anything of substance anytime soon (over the last 2 years at D23)?

I have. And it seems to me Disney geeks like us are some of the only people who pay attention to what's said at D23 and connect that to new updates/additions whenever the are actually opened.

D23 fan convention blue sky announcement about new thing

• fans get excited
• Disney's social media team makes hay
• Everyone but uber fans forgets about said announcement
• Disney gauges public opinion

18 months later, Disney Parks makes an official press release about the new thing

• Casual fans hear for the 1st time, get excited
• Actual official teaser advertising begins
• Everyone forgets about announcement
• Disney adjusts marketing

12 months later, new thing opens

• D+/Disney Channel features
• guests book vacations
• critics write reviews
• vloggers/social media ramps up
• Disney spins the success/failure of the project

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Then maybe don't use it as an excuse when there are countless examples against it, as well as not hindering work for other major rollercoasters and theme park attractions across the world?

I didn't because again, covid shutdown happened in 2020, not 21, the ride would still have had to have been completed in less than 2 years to have been completed prior to Covid impacts.

 

[_caleb]

Hilarious to think that any first official announcement from a company is not PR based. That is literally the team in charge of it.

You've mentioned that you have friends in marketing for Disney. Are you saying that TWDC has one single marketing department, and that all of their efforts are coordinated under one comprehensive manager?

 

[erasure fan1]

Again, the amount of people in this thread alone that have gone off about missing a deadline they haven't missed yet just because it feels like this should have been done so long ago.

I didn't read every page, but from the stuff I've read, it's not about missing a deadline. It's about the amount of time this has taken to complete. Even if they hit getting this thing open when the movie dropped. That's still way too long from the announcement to completion in a lot of peoples eye's.

 

[celluloid]

You've mentioned that you have friends in marketing for Disney. Are you saying that TWDC has one single marketing department, and that all of their efforts are coordinated under one comprehensive manager?

I am saying that anything that is allowed to be announced officially, has to pass through the PR gates as they are involved. Simple as that.

That was/is not my area in marketing though.

 

[celluloid]

I didn't because again, covid shutdown happened in 2020, not 21, the ride would still have had to have been completed in less than 2 years to have been completed prior to Covid impacts.

There is no proof that Disney was on track to open it by 2020. All evidence points to a later opening even without any unknown supply issues. Particularly since Guardians opened first.
Tron broke ground in 2018.
What you say makes no sense.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Folks, I know the REAL reason for the delay. They've been waiting for another Hatbox Man to die first. There's no ghost yet because he's still alive!

 

[_caleb]

I am saying that anything that is allowed to be announced officially, has to pass through the PR gates. Simple as that.

That was/is not my area in marketing though.

And by "PR gates," you mean one coordinated effort?

I've been under the impression that there is little, if any, real coordination between what we hear at D23, what we see on TikTok, what's put into an official press release about a new attraction/land/etc, and what we see on Disney+.