News Hatbox Ghost coming to Walt Disney World's Haunted Mansion

[JohnD]

You might want to take some time to catch up on this thread, a lot of what you're posting has already been addressed.

I'm doing that right now.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

When you consider the original imagineers went to great pains to get the ride just right. They settled on a little scarier at the beginning and more fun toward the end. It was the seance scene that enabled the transition to finally seeing ghosts. Now you have the Hatbox Ghost pop up out of nowhere. When going through the attic, I always thought there was room on the right just as you enter it. I wouldn't have minded seeing it in a different location from DL as long as it appeared after the seance scene.

So the rules established in the attraction don’t matter but the rules established in the movie, which are not conveyed in the ride, do matter?

I think it can mes down to how hard and fast the rules were and have been.

When the Mansion was first out together is was just a collection of scenes and Walt even said that is what he wanted/envisioned .... The more structured rules developed over time and over that time there have am been several different stories and storylines for the Mansion

It isn't like on day one it was firmly established that there was this strict storyline and the attraction built around that, end of story

Over time it has become more established and developed and if that is what it is and should not evolve, then that is it and this appears to break the now established rules.

If this is just another evolution of the Mansion and more firmly establishing that the rules don't as strongly apply to the Hat Box Ghost (which is already currently the case, just now reinforced) then I think this can be viewed more acceptably.

Personally I don't see as black and white and want to at least see the final product - obviously others feel differently

 

[OceanBlue]

I just had a thought. The number of times I have been stuck listening to Leota summon the spirits over and over again has tainted my perceived narrative of the ride. Because of the ride stoppages always seeming to happen there for me, I can now get onboard with the concept that she is in another room of the house summoning spirits at all times and that it is in fact non-linear.

My thoughts exactly, the seance is on-going when you arrive in the room, she's doing a lot of summoning..

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

The happy haunts have received your sympathetic vibrations and are beginning to materialize.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Those making the decisions today are not the creative visionaries of the past though. They don't think about this stuff, or don't care. That's why we get a Moana splash pad in Epcot. I'm willing to bet money that this was some team of 20-somethings who have been given an explanation of "fans love and want hatbox ghost, make it happen" and that was the extent of the proposal. If they thought about this more than "I bet he could fit here" I'd be interested to know what their thought process was.

He should be in the graveyard, for what it's worth. Being in the attic also takes away from the bride and the whole point of that scene (projection-face bride issues aside).

Seems like you've made up your mind. Based on what, I'm not really sure. The people responsible for The Hatbox Ghost at DL and WDW are not the people behind the Moana splash pad at EPCOT.

People seem to be forgetting that the very foremost issue with The Hatbox Ghost throughout history has been light. The Hatbox Ghost is more than just a character, he is an impressive effect. Otherwise they could have built a non-working dummy years ago and called it a day. His illusion is intertwined with his character. So you can't just put him anywhere you want, it has to be dark enough for his effect to work. That's essentially test number 1.

Once you've identified the spots that are dark enough, then you have to eliminate the spaces that don't work for either structural or (as the case is here) infrastructural reasons. It is true that with an unlimited budget such things could be overcome, but Disney does not offer its Imagineers unlimited budgets. The issue runs deeper here than most realize - to put The Hatbox Ghost at WDW in the same spot as DL there are great, unforeseen infrastructural costs that would need to be paid. WDW's Mansion is not the same as Disneyland's in all ways. That's about as much as I can say publicly.

With those things in mind, it is my understanding that this is being handled with as much care and respect for the attraction as you could really hope for. Again, the people who brought him back the first time are involved now. They didn't screw it up then, and they don't intend to screw it up now.

 

[HMF]

Seems like you've made up your mind. Based on what, I'm not really sure. The people responsible for The Hatbox Ghost at DL and WDW are not the people behind the Moana splash pad at EPCOT.

People seem to be forgetting that the very foremost issue with The Hatbox Ghost throughout history has been light. The Hatbox Ghost is more than just a character, he is an impressive effect. Otherwise they could have built a non-working dummy years ago and called it a day. His illusion is intertwined with his character. So you can't just put him anywhere you want, it has to be dark enough for his effect to work. That's essentially test number 1.

Once you've identified the spots that are dark enough, then you have to eliminate the spaces that don't work for either structural or (as the case is here) infrastructural reasons. It is true that with an unlimited budget such things could be overcome, but Disney does not offer its Imagineers unlimited budgets. The issue runs deeper here than most realize - to put The Hatbox Ghost at WDW in the same spot as DL there are great, unforeseen infrastructural costs that would need to be paid. WDW's Mansion is not the same as Disneyland's in all ways. That's about as much as I can say publicly.

With those things in mind, it is my understanding that this is being handled with as much care and respect for the attraction as you could really hope for. Again, the people who brought him back the first time are involved now. They didn't screw it up then, and they don't intend to screw it up now.

I have confidence that the effect will be impressive. It is with the story logic of the ride that I am concerned with. (Admittedly PLQ already kind of messed that up.) As with the yeti, I feel this is a failure of management to give WDI the funds required to do it properly.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I have confidence that the effect will be impressive. It is with the story logic of the ride that I am concerned with. (Admittedly PLQ already kind of messed that up.) As with the yeti, I feel this is a failure of management to give WDI the funds required to do it properly.

I feel like you should read my post again.

 

[UNCgolf]

I have confidence that the effect will be impressive. It is with the story logic of the ride that I am concerned with. (Admittedly PLQ already kind of messed that up.) As with the yeti, I feel this is a failure of management to give WDI the funds required to do it properly.

I don't even care about the story logic -- I've never felt like the Haunted Mansion really had a story (at least in the conventional sense).

I just think having him right next to the endless hallway will inadvertently detract from both.

 

[HMF]

I don't even care about the story logic -- I've never felt like the Haunted Mansion really had a story.

I just think having him right next to the endless hallway will inadvertently detract from both.

Perhaps "story" is the wrong word. It doesn't have a story in the modern sense where everything has to revolve around a contrived plot but there is an internal logic to the attraction that this and PLQ break quite explicitly

 

[celluloid]

Perhaps "story" is the wrong word. It doesn't have a story in the modern sense where everything has to revolve around a contrived plot but there is an internal logic to the attraction that this and PLQ break quite explicitly

Well said.
I think people think a story has to beat them over the head.

At the end of the day the experience has a concept or conceipt with a through line from beginning to the end that is consistent as it is well written in developing.

It's a retirement home, like a country club for ghosts.
You literally get a tour of all the amenities of a haunted house have a ghost relations department and there is a simple rule that's compulsory that will be verified with a death certificate.

 

[celluloid]

On further reflection, I think it'll be okay as long as they put some Groucho Marx glasses on him so you can't tell he's a ghost.

That is just silly. I can assure you Groucho Marx is in fact a ghost.

 

[Disney Analyst]

In the end, people online will be upset, but through the passage of time many will forget, as the doombuggies march on.

 

[DavidDL]

Have mixed feelings about this. I understand that the ghosts don't "fully" materialize to us until after the séance scene with Leota (they're originally supposed to be having trouble "getting through"), but we do technically see the physical hands of the one trying to escape the coffin before her and have been subject to numerous other forms of hauntings up to this point.

None of them physically present (aside from the coffin ghost), mind you. But maybe Disney is attempting to retcon the already ambiguous plot of the (East coast) Mansion to better tie into the recently released film (where, spoilers: it is literally the Hatbox's manor). This addition was announced nearly a year ago, I can't imagine the timing to be a coincidence.

Maybe the point is to show that the Hatbox ghost isn't like the other haunts and that he's a more "powerful" entity, especially given his newly created connection to this version of the Mansion. Additionally, one could argue that the original dialogue regarding "Happy Haunts beginning to materialize" remains intact because it could be argued that the Hatbox ghost is in fact, not a Happy Haunt. Every apparition we see after Leota (barring the Bride) is relatively harmless and just having a good time. But it's commonplace in media that more "villainous" characters tend to be more "powerful". Maybe the same is true for the Hatbox ghost? Maybe it'd be true for the Bride, too, if the attic took place before Leota?

Not sure. But the "story" of the Mansion is already super ambiguous. It seems easy enough to retcon or handwave certain things away. That is, after all, supposed to be one of the benefits of these IP-less, original attractions, is it not? That they don't adhere to a strict, linear backstory that everyone needs to follow or know about in advance and can lean more into being simply fun ideas worth riding through?

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Here's the problem. The attraction should stand on its own. The "Leota rule" can be gleaned from the ride itself. The "Hatbox ghost having special powers" can't. The design story (meaning the physical effects) clearly builds. This violates that. Hands down. And there will be nothing in the attraction that explains why this figure is randomly inserted in full form where everything up to that point and after for awhile is far more subtle. The rule isn't because of the incantation. It's because the physical ride has a clear design progression that is violated by this. And drawing rules from a film that probably won't stand the test of time that much with no reference in the ride is poor attraction design.

 

[Heath]

It “remains to be seen” if Disney is installing the hatbox ghost during that closure window.
Also remaining to be seen.. Apparently someone in Germany stole 5 metric tons of Nutella. Police haven't arrested anyone yet, but they are questioning Gunter Hogsbargen , the 700 lb man that smells like chocolate & hazelnuts, who guards Nutella's storage facility.

 

[Jambo Dad]

Here's the problem. The attraction should stand on its own. The "Leota rule" can be gleaned from the ride itself. The "Hatbox ghost having special powers" can't. The design story (meaning the physical effects) clearly builds. This violates that. Hands down. And there will be nothing in the attraction that explains why this figure is randomly inserted in full form where everything up to that point and after for awhile is far more subtle. The rule isn't because of the incantation. It's because the physical ride has a clear design progression that is violated by this. And drawing rules from a film that probably won't stand the test of time that much with no reference in the ride is poor attraction design.

I think this post is a great summary. Is it the end of the world? No. Is this another sign that Disney doesn’t have the staff or depth to give sufficient care to execution? Maybe.

 

[DavidDL]

I'm just leaning more towards the criticisms about his placement distracting from other nearby show elements being a more worthwhile argument to be making regarding Disney's placement of him.

But if modern Disney is really as cheap, lazy and uninspired as many fans would have us believe, then why didn't they just put the Hatbox ghost where they did out in Disneyland and call it a day? Surely that would take less effort and money. But they didn't. Which means a group of folks got together at some point and discussed this change and made the conscious decision to move him to this location. Maybe they realized they'd have to change some "rules" of the ride to do so but regarding those rules: it's Disney's haunted house and some of those rules could be already be brought into question.

If we really aren't allowed to see any apparition before Leota then why can we see her? I challenge anyone to answer this question honestly with anything other than "because she is different in some way". So if Leota, whose tombstone clearly states that she is in the afterlife (therefore, an apparition of some kind) is powerful enough to be visible to us because of some innate ability she likely possesses, why can't the Hatbox ghost be? Or why can I see the hands of the one trying to escape the coffin? Leota still grants us the ability to see all the ghosts we couldn't before, regardless of Hatbox's new placement.

They make the rules and can freely change or retcon elements of them whenever they see fit. They're the ones choosing to tell whatever story they want, we as Guests don't get to make those decisions. We do, however, have the power to support or not support these decisions. -and if this change is really an egregious enough destruction of the Mansion to now consider it a poorly designed attraction going forward, then we're free to let Disney know they made a mistake by not giving the Mansion our patronage or turnstile clicks going forward. That's the power we have, just as Disney has the power to change and do what they want with their rides, too.

 

[HMF]

if modern Disney is really as cheap, lazy and uninspired as many fans would have us believe, then why didn't they just put the Hatbox ghost where they did out in Disneyland and call it a day?

In this case that would have been the obvious decision and we wouldn't be having this discussion or having this discussion in a more positive light.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

I’ll admit I’m starting to really not care about the placement anymore. The Hatbox Ghost is a cool effect still and there are far worse things happening in the parks. I’ll just wait for the end result at this point.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I mean, the one thing I like about this placement is you'll get a longer look at him. It feels like a quick glance at Disneyland.