Has Disney Pricing Increases/Atmosphere Cuts Altered YOUR FAMILIES WDW Attendance?

[bUU]

The point is that everyone has a price point for great value, decent value, average value, limited value, and no value. That price is never going to be the same from person to person. However, when you get to the point that large quantities of people are saying they have moved into the average-to-no-value end of the spectrum it's not a great sign of what's to come.

However, right now we have only small quantities of people saying that (and meaning it honestly), and super-large quantities of people, through their actions, making it very clear that they're nowhere near that point.

 

[bUU]

Right now the poll has ~50% of respondents saying that price has had no effect on their future plans. This is based on responses from registered posters on a very focused WDW forum.

Indeed, a forum that specifically attracts people who embrace curmudgeonly comments that some other very large Disney forums take action against. That biased sampling, combined with the bias inhernet in the phrasing of the question and the construction of the replies, makes the results even more compelling.

In other words, it's representative of a small, not entirely unbiased study group rather than the population as a whole.

It's interesting, but I'm not going to be selling my Disney stock based on this poll's results.

 

[bUU]

76 percent sounds like a lot, but it’s 76 percent of the 160 people who voted.

Who, again, come from a biased sample, and were responding to a grievously biased poll question. There is one other thing to keep in mind, with polls where respondents self-select rather than respondents being a normalized random sample: If people don't like something they are 9-15 times more likely to tell others than if they like something. So 76-24, if we were talking about a normalized random sampling, would indicate that 76% of people are actually positively inclined. {(24*10) / [76+(24*10)]}

And, again, that's if the sample was a normalized random sample, which it isn't.

Beyond that, if we're really talking about what Disney should be worried about (which some posters insisted on above), then it isn't even a normalized random sample that is needed, but rather a biased random sample of the customers that Disney is targeting with their strategies. Some folks here have made really clear that they have no intention of ever being what Disney would ever want as a customer, though they probably wouldn't admit that.

 

[bUU]

Sample size is a time honored way of predicting overall patterns/results...though of course not perfect. How do you think polls work?

How do you think polls work? The minimum number of respondents for significance of poll results related to WDW parks would be close to 400, and that's (again) only if they're a random sampling.

 

[wm49rs]

Indeed, a forum that specifically attracts people who embrace curmudgeonly comments that some other very large Disney forums take action against. That biased sampling, combined with the bias inhernet in the phrasing of the question and the construction of the replies, makes the results even more compelling.

If you don’t like this discussion forum, you have other options....

 

[Glasgow]

Count us in the once-a-year to once-every-two-to-three-years camp. We've now been to UNI 3 of the last 4 years instead - which, surprisingly, even though it's not quite as enjoyable on the whole, its been a welcome change of pace and allows us more time to relax at the resort/pool and has saved money as well. The cost wasn't the deciding factor for us at WDW .. it was the VALUE. Many people lose sight of that and focus exclusively on the cost. All businesses have to raise prices to keep up with inflation, salaries, tech, etc .. the question is, are you getting what you pay for now or paying for what you used to get? Disney is just now catching back up on investments they postponed over the past 5-10 years, IMO.

 

[Chi84]

Who, again, come from a biased sample, and were responding to a grievously biased poll question. There is one other thing to keep in mind, with polls where respondents self-select rather than respondents being a normalized random sample: If people don't like something they are 9-15 times more likely to tell others than if they like something. So 76-24, if we were talking about a normalized random sampling, would indicate that 76% of people are actually positively inclined. {(24*10) / [76+(24*10)]}

And, again, that's if the sample was a normalized random sample, which it isn't.

Beyond that, if we're really talking about what Disney should be worried about (which some posters insisted on above), then it isn't even a normalized random sample that is needed, but rather a biased random sample of the customers that Disney is targeting with their strategies. Some folks here have made really clear that they have no intention of ever being what Disney would ever want as a customer, though they probably wouldn't admit that.

There is a good deal of science behind polls, and it takes a lot of time, effort and knowledge to construct one that will have even a chance of producing an accurate result. I have no problem with people here posting surveys but have a hard time believing that they think they are true "polls." Disney pricing is a contentious issue, and when I saw the title of the thread, I knew it would get heated. But calling people names and suggesting that someone who disagrees with you lacks reading comprehension seems a bit over the top.

 

[SirWillow]

Yes. Disney has been underselling its offerings. Mark my words: Disney attendance and revenues will increases over the next ten years (just like it has over the last ten years, and the ten years before that, and the ten years before that, etc.)

Just like they've increased this year at the parks..., er, oh, wait. That's right. It's dropped. And in Disneyland very noticeably, which is why there is a panic going on. Even days at WDW have seen low crowd days that haven't been seen in years (and I"m not talking about the ones affected by the hurricane). And why the parks at both coasts are offering specials like they haven't done in years, and have more in the works, to help drive attendance up.

 

[Stellajack]

Obviously, we'll eventually get to a point where the stripped-down trip is no longer worth it for us, especially now that the kids are teetering on the brink of their teen years and are getting increasingly interested in traveling to more grown-up locations. They're old enough now to perceive how many other, alternative ways the vacation budget could be spent (e.g., DH and I spent 10 days in Scotland last year for less than the cost of a week at WDW).

I agree totally. I recently priced a 5 night 6 day stay to Rome in the 5-star Bernini Bristol Hotel (flight included) for 2. Our total trip cost for hotel and flight was just over $3000. Since we stayed here on a previous Adventures by Disney trip, we are familiar with eating establishments in that area that provide great food without breaking the bank. This is not to say that we do not enjoy periodic trips to WDW. There is much more in the world to see and enjoy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Lol, now how come with others say "don't go" which is what you're saying albeit a lot nicer, we get publically flogged??

...it’s all about the delivery

 

[PixarPerfect]

If they both were the same then...

...you know what...no...it's not my job to teach reading comprehension.

Let me try and explain this another way....

You have created an interesting poll. It has sparked great conversation for which you should be commended. You have not, however, created an unbiased study from which actionable data can be extrapolated.

When creating polls and surveys the goal is to obtain clean data. Clean data can only be pulled from questions and answer fields that are balanced and fair. Your poll is not. The "Has Disney Pricing Increases/Atmosphere Cuts Altered ..." starts people off on a negative foot. It's leading people into believing that there are atmosphere cuts (pricing can be tracked). Furthermore, "atmosphere" is a vague term that means different things to different people. Not every respondent may agree with that opening statement.

You've followed this with a series of leading answer options. Only one is a "positive" in that it says No Effect, but you've labeled it with such a biased qualifier as to make sure anyone who answers has to take a very hard line. The rest of the answers lead people down a series of answers that support your original (negative and biased) question.

There is no difference between "no effect" and "no effect now" when it comes to data. "Yet" can be applied to just about anything, therefore it's tossed out as a data point. A couple of examples:

I am not dead. I am not dead, yet or I am not in Disney World. I am not in Disney World, yet. In both cases the current answer is the same. I am not dead and am not in Disney World.

Again, I applaud your creating the poll and generating this conversation. If your goal was to create data from which people can pull conclusions, then you needed to write the question and answer in a clean format. This is a quick and extremely rough example merely as a demonstration:

Q: How has price affected your WDW visits in the last 5 years (check all that apply)?
A: Increased ADRs
A. Decreased ADRs
A: Upgrade to nicer resort
A: Downgrade to less expensive resort
A: Increased number of visits
A: Decreased number of visits
A: Staying more at Disney properties
A: Staying off-site at non-Disney properties

Q: How do you define Disney's atmposhere
A: Imagineering details
A: Cast member uniforms
A: Disney characters
A...

Q: Has the Disney atmosphere influenced your WDW visits in the last 5 years?

Once you have that, then you can definitely say, "When asked if price has affected your WDW visits in the last 5 years, 76% of respondents have increased their ADRs and number of visits..."

I hope this helps you see why yours was a fun and interesting poll, but not an actionable one.

 

[Stellajack]

I was wondering when “my time is too valuable” was gonna show it’s head??

If you don’t have enough time to relax on vacation, I believe you may be missing the point of vacation.

But that’s just me.

For me and my DH, the TTFD party IS about relaxation and, therefore, premium benefit. We no longer book TS (except for non-park arrival day and HS Brown Derby) because of food quality vs. cost. It is relaxing for us to sit during the parade and fireworks (far from the "madding crowd" so to speak), but also to stay during the post-fireworks crush in the street. Vacation is different for all people. When you learn that Disney is attempting to "drive" your vacation, then you can take control of it. How people choose to spend vacation $$'s and time is an individual choice. Does it mean that I or YOU are ruining the parks experience for everyone? No. Maybe others call me a "minion", but I'm grown up enough to take it.

 

[OneofThree]

For me and my DH, the TTFD party IS about relaxation and, therefore, premium benefit.

In order for this to be so, you have to ignore the fact that there's an overcrowding problem to begin with. The fact that it's worth it for some to pay for a corner in TT to escape the madness is quite the indictment, IMO. So overall customer experience declines, and you pay a premium for the base experience. As an accountant, I love it. As a customer, -yeah no; I let our AP's lapse.

 

[Think Tink]

I am not renewing my pass next year. It's not really due to the increases so much as the fact I want to travel to other places as well next year. I'm planning on going to New Orleans, Canada, and maybe a cruise But I'm still going to go to Disney, and still stay at the same hotels I normally do.

 

[VaderTron]

Let me try and explain this another way....

You have created an interesting poll. It has sparked great conversation for which you should be commended. You have not, however, created an unbiased study from which actionable data can be extrapolated.

When creating polls and surveys the goal is to obtain clean data. Clean data can only be pulled from questions and answer fields that are balanced and fair. Your poll is not. The "Has Disney Pricing Increases/Atmosphere Cuts Altered ..." starts people off on a negative foot. It's leading people into believing that there are atmosphere cuts (pricing can be tracked). Furthermore, "atmosphere" is a vague term that means different things to different people. Not every respondent may agree with that opening statement.

You've followed this with a series of leading answer options. Only one is a "positive" in that it says No Effect, but you've labeled it with such a biased qualifier as to make sure anyone who answers has to take a very hard line. The rest of the answers lead people down a series of answers that support your original (negative and biased) question.

There is no difference between "no effect" and "no effect now" when it comes to data. "Yet" can be applied to just about anything, therefore it's tossed out as a data point. A couple of examples:

I am not dead. I am not dead, yet or I am not in Disney World. I am not in Disney World, yet. In both cases the current answer is the same. I am not dead and am not in Disney World.

Again, I applaud your creating the poll and generating this conversation. If your goal was to create data from which people can pull conclusions, then you needed to write the question and answer in a clean format. This is a quick and extremely rough example merely as a demonstration:

Q: How has price affected your WDW visits in the last 5 years (check all that apply)?
A: Increased ADRs
A. Decreased ADRs
A: Upgrade to nicer resort
A: Downgrade to less expensive resort
A: Increased number of visits
A: Decreased number of visits
A: Staying more at Disney properties
A: Staying off-site at non-Disney properties

Q: How do you define Disney's atmposhere
A: Imagineering details
A: Cast member uniforms
A: Disney characters
A...

Q: Has the Disney atmosphere influenced your WDW visits in the last 5 years?

Once you have that, then you can definitely say, "When asked if price has affected your WDW visits in the last 5 years, 76% of respondents have increased their ADRs and number of visits..."

I hope this helps you see why yours was a fun and interesting poll, but not an actionable one.

This is why Bureaucrats are dumbfounded when their "clean polling" leads them to profoundly wrong conclusions. Anyone who understands how to read can answer this poll. The questions are clear. Just because you don't like the data you feel it needs to be changed. Make your own poll then. This one works just fine in showing how people feel. There is no one holding a gun to people's heads demanding they vote here. Anyone who didn't understand and after reading posts realized the first option is for EVERYONE WHO HAS TAKEN PRICING INCREASES AND ATMOSPHERE CUTS IN STRIDE WITH ZERO IMPACT WHATSOEVER ON THEIR WDW PLANS can change their vote. I left that option open because I'm not interested in collecting poor voting results based on a misunderstanding of the questions. So, there's no reason to believe the data does not show what people really feel.

 

[ChipNDale79]

Our passes expired last month, actually the day the price increase was announced. We had already decided because of the price increases on literally just about everything else, that it wasnt worth it.

We had trips planned over the past year and half for awhile, but i knew when the parking fees came out, that after these trips were done, we were going to visit less often. It was a very UnDisney thing to do that reeked of greed. It didnt sit well with me. Pure money grab.

I do wonder if they've hit the bubble, i was shocked to see the new star wars ride have literally half the wait time as Tower of Terror yesterday.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In order for this to be so, you have to ignore the fact that there's an overcrowding problem to begin with. The fact that it's worth it for some to pay for a corner in TT to escape the madness is quite the indictment, IMO. So overall customer experience declines, and you pay a premium for the base experience. As an accountant, I love it. As a customer, -yeah no; I let our AP's lapse.

I tend to agree with you...including looking at it from THERE Side. But Disney doing it and getting away with it does not make it “right” by default. If I view it that was as the consumer, Its self defeating

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How do you think polls work? The minimum number of respondents for significance of poll results related to WDW parks would be close to 400, and that's (again) only if they're a random sampling.

So you are invalidating the raw data until it crosses 400 respondents.

It’s ok...that’s your call to not glean anything from it as it stands. You’ll just have to submit your thesis without the determination of any data

 

[PiratesMansion]

I used to go occasionally.

Now I go to other Disney theme parks instead, as well as many non-Disney offerings. The ratio of "magic received" for money spent is the worst in the world right now.

 

[tirian]

I answered for my siblings and their families, plus my parents. All of them have solid, 6-figure jobs with household income exceeding Disney's targets because they and their spouses are white-collar professionals. Yet just like most people who are responsible for building their own wealth, my family looks for the value ratio in their vacations, and they’ve all cut back for four main reasons.

(1) Disney wields FastPass+ to cut down on staffing and operations, which means the parks operate at less-than-standard efficiency, even on “slow” days. The queues are manipulated to ensure there’s always a line. Families who don’t know better might not mind the new system, but people who’ve been visiting for a while often feel the frustrations of modern WDW.

(2) The planning process has become a major pain the neck, and the My Disney Experience app and website rarely function correctly. My brother described the app as the “most stressful, badly designed thing in the App Store.”

I suspect many fans who love the new system are either single or don’t have to make changes once they’ve made their first round of plans. It’s very difficult to align FPs and dining for a group larger than four, and Disney brands itself as a family destination.

(3) Related to point #1, the FastPass+ tier system and advanced requirements ensure you cannot simply enjoy the parks, even on days with slow attendance — because at some point you’ll be forced into a crowd flow pattern by picking and choosing one single E-ticket until your other options time out. This is especially problematic at Epcot and the Studios.

(4) Too much has been cut while the prices have increased. No night parade, only one day parade, less entertainment, outrageous hotel rates, smaller food portions and selections, crazy dining plan prices — the list goes on and on.

We had often kicked around the idea of joining the DVC. After our most recent family vacation a year ago, nobody is interested anymore. Every adult said “No way.”

In 2019, my family dropped Disney*, and they traveled to real locations across the real world. My brother and sister-in-law who make about $500k total said their family has had more fun than they’ve had at Disney in the last three years—including their kids—and they blame the FP+ system and “corporate greed.”

Again, this is about “value”; they’ve probably spent at least as much as they would’ve at Disney, but they feel like they’re getting a product worth the price.

Sorry to come out swinging with negativity, but this is a very honest answer from my family. They complain to me because they know I still have contacts in the company.


*I have an AP and don’t plan to drop it.

EDIT: Incidentally, everyone in my family is a long-term Disney fan — my dad had worked for them and encouraged my career choice there — and they’ve already subscribed to Disney+, and their homes are full of collectibles and Disney Store toys. Some have visited DL, DLP, TDR, and of course WDW. Yet they’ve cut the parks for now. They used to have APs and traveled to Florida to visit me.