News Guest dies, found unresponsive after riding Stardust Racers

[DisneyHead123]

You can just look it up and find all sorts of sources that explain how waist restraints and over the shoulder restraints offer the same safety.

I haven't seen anything objective, just opinion pieces. To be fair it would be a difficult area to study.

My thought is this - the baseline condition of any roller coaster should be safety, obviously. Under multiple test conditions with test dummies, we should see that the specific velocity, movement, etc. of a given coaster makes a lap restraint perfectly safe for those very specific conditions.

That said, if for some reason baseline conditions are deviated from - as they might have been in this scenario - common sense / analogies to cars would seem to indicate that over the should restraints are safer. If (if) this man died from swinging forward and hitting his forehead on the lap restraint or the seat in front of him, that likely would not have been possible with shoulder restraints. His head might have bounced between the restraints but the amount of momentum between a head moving a few centimeters side to side and a couple of feet to the front is huge.

 

[mergatroid]

Exactly. Coasters are optional amusements that are highly regulated. Car transportation--though potentially dangerous--is typically viewed as an essential activity. For the most part, auto transportation is to take people to work, the store, get food, go to appointments, etc. These are not the same thing at all and shouldn't be compared.

Also cars are controlled by humans who decide what speed and direction they go in, there's an element of skill and judgement required by both you and other drivers. Add in pedestrians crossing roads and those are factors that a ride vehicle on a single track doesn't have.

 

[Andrew C]

And so in this, I'm so confused as to what hit him multiple times to cause repeated blunt force trauma.

We won’t know until the investigation concludes, which will take some time. Law enforcement already said not to expect anything new for a while. I know we live in a world of instant information, but this will require some patience.

 

[disneylandtour]

This isn't the first time a death has happened on a coaster. A year after Superman opened at Darien Lake a man fell out of his seat and died.

You know what they did to fix it. Nothing.
Same with the second death on the same coaster.

This isn't true. They changed the requirements for who could ride. He was a veteran and a double leg amputee. The restraints were useless on his body type. This incident caused many ride manufactures to change their requirements for who can ride their coasters. And even earlier in this thread, we discussed that one requirement was at least one full, natural leg for this ride restraint system and one partial leg. These changes largely came from the Darien Lake incident. So yes, things changed.

 

[mergatroid]

This isn't the first time a death has happened on a coaster. A year after Superman opened at Darien Lake a man fell out of his seat and died.

You know what they did to fix it. Nothing.
Same with the second death on the same coaster.

I'm sure that will be of great comfort to his family.

 

[Jrb1979]

I haven't seen anything objective, just opinion pieces. To be fair it would be a difficult area to study.

My thought is this - the baseline condition of any roller coaster should be safety, obviously. Under multiple test conditions with test dummies, we should see that the specific velocity, movement, etc. of a given coaster makes a lap restraint perfectly safe for those very specific conditions.

That said, if for some reason baseline conditions are deviated from - as they might have been in this scenario - common sense / analogies to cars would seem to indicate that over the should restraints are safer. If (if) this man died from swinging forward and hitting his forehead on the lap restraint or the seat in front of him, that likely would not have been possible with shoulder restraints. His head might have bounced between the restraints but the amount of momentum between a head moving a few centimeters side to side and a couple of feet to the front is huge.

Til we know the outcome of the investigation, we also can't jump to conclusions. For all we know, his spinal cord issue could the reason why he flopped around when he passed out.

Coaster manufacturers go through tests for everything. I have my doubts they would miss something like this happening

 

[lazyboy97o]

And so in this, I'm so confused as to what hit him multiple times to cause repeated blunt force trauma. The body shouldn't bend like that in these restraint systems, unless something else went very wrong.

It’s almost like we don’t yet know what happened.

I haven't seen anything objective, just opinion pieces. To be fair it would be a difficult area to study.

My thought is this - the baseline condition of any roller coaster should be safety, obviously. Under multiple test conditions with test dummies, we should see that the specific velocity, movement, etc. of a given coaster makes a lap restraint perfectly safe for those very specific conditions.

That said, if for some reason baseline conditions are deviated from - as they might have been in this scenario - common sense / analogies to cars would seem to indicate that over the should restraints are safer. If (if) this man died from swinging forward and hitting his forehead on the lap restraint or the seat in front of him, that likely would not have been possible with shoulder restraints. His head might have bounced between the restraints but the amount of momentum between a head moving a few centimeters side to side and a couple of feet to the front is huge.

Nothing is ever perfect. That’s a ridiculous standard. Again, the term “headbanger” exists for a reason.

Also cars are controlled by humans who decide what speed and direction they go in, there's an element of skill and judgement required by both you and other drivers. Add in pedestrians crossing roads and those are factors that a ride vehicle on a single track doesn't have.

The US has very high rates of motor vehicle and pedestrian deaths. We chose not to do more and to undermine work that had been done. It is not at all a base level issue that cannot be overcome. Also, even rides are designed by humans. They are incredibly safe as is

 

[DisneyHead123]

I think it's just as simple as this man shouldn't have been allowed to ride it in the first place because the nature of his disabilities were such that it was a potentially unsafe ride for him. Though he had no missing limbs and was able to transfer into the train, it sounds as if his disability meant that if he lost consciousness during the ride, his body would behave differently to that of someone who does not have that disability. That would explain why he was fine all the other times he rode the attraction, but not this time.

I think the ride itself is fine. I think this is, unfortunately, an error on Universal's part for allowing him onto the attraction.

If (again, if) this man was killed because he had unusually low muscle tone and / or muscle atrophy that allowed him a greater range of motion at the waist than most people, or lower muscle tone when unconscious - I still think it would be hard to rule out the same situation with an extremely drunk person. Extremely drunk people can become very limp and 'floppy'. I realize that extremely drunk people shouldn't be going on this ride, but it should be designed for real world conditions, and realistically that will happen.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Til we know the outcome of the investigation, we also can't jump to conclusions. For all we know, his spinal cord issue could the reason why he flopped around when he passed out.

Coaster manufacturers go through tests for everything. I have my doubts they would miss something like this happening

Yes, I've tried to be careful to say 'if' such and such happened. Obviously if this poor man was hit in the head with a piece of flying metal that has nothing to do with lap vs. shoulder restraints.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm sure that will be of great comfort to his family.

It's very unfortunate that he died from riding thid coaster. I do feel sorry for his family.

I hate how the main response is, something is wrong with the coaster and they need more restraints.

 

[Jrb1979]

If (again, if) this man was killed because he had unusually low muscle tone and / or muscle atrophy that allowed him a greater range of motion at the waist than most people, or lower muscle tone when unconscious - I still think it would be hard to rule out the same situation with an extremely drunk person. Extremely drunk people can become very limp and 'floppy'. I realize that extremely drunk people shouldn't be going on this ride, but it should be designed for real world conditions, and realistically that will happen.

That could be said for every coaster. Then all coasters should have seatbelts and over the shoulder restraints. As well as restraints that come down so you can't move.

 

[disneylandtour]

Yes, I've tried to be careful to say 'if' such and such happened. Obviously if this poor man was hit in the head with a piece of flying metal that has nothing to do with lap vs. shoulder restraints.

That's the thing - I can imagine a rider being hit with a piece of metal (bolt, flashing, etc.) once. That happened once at DCA--though the bolt presumably came for the coaster and hit someone not on it. I don't know how to account for "multiple" blunt force injuries. A dislodged piece of metal flying through air doesn't do that.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

It’s not a defense because we don’t know what happened. Therefore it is premature to be demanding changes and placing blame (which you seem so eager to do).

We don't know what happened absolutely. But It's not like I have some vendetta against Mack Rides??? So what is your point???

I would like to know, in your opinion, how is it due to a preexisting medical condition/guests fault that multiple blunt force trauma injuries are present on a rollercoaster? Just in your mind, how did that happen without it being the coaster/operators fault other than them getting out of their seat somehow, not falling but hitting their head on something.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

That could be said for every coaster. Then all coasters should have seatbelts and over the shoulder restraints. As well as restraints that come down so you can't move.

This didn't happen at "all coasters" though, just this specific one?

 

[mergatroid]

It's very unfortunate that he died from riding thid coaster. I do feel sorry for his family.

I hate how the main response is, something is wrong with the coaster and they need more restraints.

Agreed but the response of "Well people die on roller coasters" is equally horrible and sounds heartless even if not meant to be. I mean I did a parachute jump and knew there was a danger element and weighed up the risks and then had about 6 hours of training which I HAD TO PASS before doing it.

Now there's may ways that people can die in life but let's be honest, riding a theme park attraction shouldn't be one. If I'd been unable to open my parachute and made peace hitting the earth at high velocity, then I'd kind of expect somebody I knew thinking "I warned him against doing that" as there's an understood inherent risk. Going on a theme park coaster and coming off dead shouldn't illicit the response of "Well others have died on roller coasters".

Again we don't know all the answers yet but there's surely a middle ground we can reach rather than make out that "Well people die on coasters"

 

[Jrb1979]

This didn't happen at "all coasters" though, just this specific one?

My post was in response to the previous post about having restraints setup in case people pass out. They mentioned a drunk person.
Other coasters would have this happen to if some one passed out

My response is saying we might as well go back and have over the shoulder restraints, seatbelts and lap bars for every coaster

 

[DisneyHead123]

If (again, if) this man was killed because he had unusually low muscle tone and / or muscle atrophy that allowed him a greater range of motion at the waist than most people, or lower muscle tone when unconscious - I still think it would be hard to rule out the same situation with an extremely drunk person. Extremely drunk people can become very limp and 'floppy'. I realize that extremely drunk people shouldn't be going on this ride, but it should be designed for real world conditions, and realistically that will happen.

That could be said for every coaster. Then all coasters should have seatbelts and over the shoulder restraints. As well as restraints that come down so you can't move.

I kinda doubt that. There have to have been plenty of very drunk riders on coasters over the years. I feel like there's often an unstated assumption here that because this ride is similar to other rides, that means it's essentially the same. Of course that's not the case though - a variance between rides could mean a big difference in the way an unconscious rider is tossed around.

 

[disneylandtour]

This didn't happen at "all coasters" though, just this specific one?

Some of these comments are getting nutty--as though there's no difference between the Barnstormer and the Hulk coaster.

 

[DisneyHead123]

That's the thing - I can imagine a rider being hit with a piece of metal (bolt, flashing, etc.) once. That happened once at DCA--though the bolt presumably came for the coaster and hit someone not on it. I don't know how to account for "multiple" blunt force injuries. A dislodged piece of metal flying through air doesn't do that.

I don't think that scenario is super likely but I could see it if the piece of metal was attached to his specific car.

 

[disneylandtour]

I kinda doubt that. There have to have been plenty of very drunk riders on coasters over the years. I feel like there's often an unstated assumption here that because this ride is similar to other rides, that means it's essentially the same. Of course that's not the case though - a variance between rides could mean a big difference in the way an unconscious rider is tossed around.

Unique interaction between this particular track course and the restraint system is near the top of what I think is likely here.