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Guardians Tower announcement Saturday in SD ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
When I last saw the thread it had roughly a dozen pages in it. I received the news today while on a farm (yep, even had sheep so I was reminded of losing my beloved petting zoo and a quarter of DL's acreage for two Star Wars attractions with capacities that don't begin to approach WED 60s classics like PotC and Small World and Mansion) in some far off place in Europe.
No, it was no more a surprise than when I reported Harry Potter was coming to a second UNI park in FL or that George Kalogridis was becoming WDW Prez or that DCL was expanding with two ships and had plans for another four more and a second island or that a second DVC was coming to the WL or that SDL was incredibly troubled or that Michael Eisner didn't appreciate the lack of respect shown to him by Bob Iger at the opening or ... doesn't really matter. Just reminding folks here (and everyone else reading from Davenport to Glendale, Anaheim to Hong Kong, Paris to Pudong) that I know my stuff, I source it better than 98% of what is left of real journalists and I toss it out here as soon as I possibly can because at heart, I am a Disney fanboi and I can admit that.
Anyway, first on WDW ... yes, the idea of this change happening to Tower is dead. But the Guardians are coming to EPCOT as I posted before and, yes, I think the idea is just flat out sickening.
I loved GotG. Pure fun. A far better film that say ... I dunno ... The Force Awakens ... or Finding Dory ... or Frozen ...or even the ridiculously overrated Citizen Kane (can you believe I said that and actually believe it? I did and I do!) Looking forward to the second one too.
But that doesn't make this right because it is so wrong. Just take a look at the artwork shown, which looks like a cross between the building as it stands and ... I dunno ... almost a Transformers like vibe.
Oh Spirit, you wail, at least they didn't destroy WDW's superior version. To that I say, superior is subjective. I do believe it is the best version sorta ... because TDS's Tower makes up for having a tamer profile by layering on detailing and showmanship like a Renaissance master.
And if you believe DCA has the worst version of the attraction, I would hope that you agree it is still a masterpiece of Imagineering. Because if you don't, then I am saying rip out WDW's Pirates because -- no, the queue most certainly doesn't count in the way some say -- it now is the worst version out of the now five on the globe. Let's put in a Jungle Book ride using the same show building and ride system.
There were many things wrong with DCA from 2001. A lot of those mistakes were fixed by the extreme makeover (remember that Phase II that should be nearing completion about now?) But many weren't. A basic rule of Theme Park 101 should be simple common sense "If it ain't broke, don't break it." But that is what is happening here. A haunted hotel from the 1930s that meshes so perfectly with the new Hollywoodland conceit is going to be destroyed, so that the egos of twin Bobs (talking Iger and Chappie here, Weis can't be blamed for this as it was in the works before he got his new gig and it is being shoved down his throat) can be stroked.
Marvel has a huge presence in a theme park. But we all know that park is IOA. It has a smaller presence in another in Asia. UNI-Japan. Beyond character meet-greet-and-grunts at DL and WDSP (also at IOA, I should add) and a temporary 'sell the BRAND' experience at SDL, they have zero presence in Disney parks globally. TWDC bought Marvel in late 2009. It is almost seven years later. The Bobs are desperate for a Marvel hit and this is the quickest and cheapest way to do that. Besides, I want to go up and down with my fanboi friends while listening to "Come and Get Your Love" by Redbone and "Go All The Way" by the Raspberries, of course!
Joe Rohde? Look, the man is one of the top three salaries (by far) in the Imagineering ranks. He was very close to being out of a job when Pandora fell into his lap, but that project will be opening next year. Getting the Marvel Design Studio likely keeps him employed another five years. And allows him to rub elbows with Hollywood elites and celebs at Marvel premieres. Hell, he likely has access to Bob Iger directly since getting this title.
The fact is that, despite his professed liberal leanings, Bob Iger is a very conservative man. One who doesn't trust his creatives and their output. This has been the case with WDFA, but it certainly is also the case with every other division. His prized IP acquisitions are being thrown into places they don't belong because he never had the trust to say "these films are going to be huge, let's have quality attractions ready to go" so you wind up with a low-capacity Frozen boat ride in a freaking World Showcase pavilion. And you wind up with GotG in DCA's ToT and EPCOT's Future World. And, in so doing, they dilute all of the parks even further. They all become BRAND extensions, tools if you will (not quite the same as social mediawhores are tools ... heck, I wonder how many O-Towners are going to rush to SoCal for last rides and photo retrospectives instead of say ... I dunno ... ripping the decision-making process?)
But it's great that y'all love Olaf and Thor and Darth Vader and BB-8 and Groot because that is what Disney is becoming ... and if you've only been a fan of the parks largely since 2000, you may well think this is great news. If you knew them and loved them from 1955-1999 (or thereabouts) you likely largely feel like I do. The Disney we loved is long dead and today's product is going to be very different moving forward. Some of it is going to be great. But it isn't going to transport you in the same ways that WED and WDI did for their first half century. You are largely going to get mishmashes of conflicting IPs thrown in wherever all the Bobs see fit. And some of them will fit far better than others. This one wouldn't be that.
No, it was no more a surprise than when I reported Harry Potter was coming to a second UNI park in FL or that George Kalogridis was becoming WDW Prez or that DCL was expanding with two ships and had plans for another four more and a second island or that a second DVC was coming to the WL or that SDL was incredibly troubled or that Michael Eisner didn't appreciate the lack of respect shown to him by Bob Iger at the opening or ... doesn't really matter. Just reminding folks here (and everyone else reading from Davenport to Glendale, Anaheim to Hong Kong, Paris to Pudong) that I know my stuff, I source it better than 98% of what is left of real journalists and I toss it out here as soon as I possibly can because at heart, I am a Disney fanboi and I can admit that.
Anyway, first on WDW ... yes, the idea of this change happening to Tower is dead. But the Guardians are coming to EPCOT as I posted before and, yes, I think the idea is just flat out sickening.
I loved GotG. Pure fun. A far better film that say ... I dunno ... The Force Awakens ... or Finding Dory ... or Frozen ...or even the ridiculously overrated Citizen Kane (can you believe I said that and actually believe it? I did and I do!) Looking forward to the second one too.
But that doesn't make this right because it is so wrong. Just take a look at the artwork shown, which looks like a cross between the building as it stands and ... I dunno ... almost a Transformers like vibe.
Oh Spirit, you wail, at least they didn't destroy WDW's superior version. To that I say, superior is subjective. I do believe it is the best version sorta ... because TDS's Tower makes up for having a tamer profile by layering on detailing and showmanship like a Renaissance master.
And if you believe DCA has the worst version of the attraction, I would hope that you agree it is still a masterpiece of Imagineering. Because if you don't, then I am saying rip out WDW's Pirates because -- no, the queue most certainly doesn't count in the way some say -- it now is the worst version out of the now five on the globe. Let's put in a Jungle Book ride using the same show building and ride system.
There were many things wrong with DCA from 2001. A lot of those mistakes were fixed by the extreme makeover (remember that Phase II that should be nearing completion about now?) But many weren't. A basic rule of Theme Park 101 should be simple common sense "If it ain't broke, don't break it." But that is what is happening here. A haunted hotel from the 1930s that meshes so perfectly with the new Hollywoodland conceit is going to be destroyed, so that the egos of twin Bobs (talking Iger and Chappie here, Weis can't be blamed for this as it was in the works before he got his new gig and it is being shoved down his throat) can be stroked.
Marvel has a huge presence in a theme park. But we all know that park is IOA. It has a smaller presence in another in Asia. UNI-Japan. Beyond character meet-greet-and-grunts at DL and WDSP (also at IOA, I should add) and a temporary 'sell the BRAND' experience at SDL, they have zero presence in Disney parks globally. TWDC bought Marvel in late 2009. It is almost seven years later. The Bobs are desperate for a Marvel hit and this is the quickest and cheapest way to do that. Besides, I want to go up and down with my fanboi friends while listening to "Come and Get Your Love" by Redbone and "Go All The Way" by the Raspberries, of course!
Joe Rohde? Look, the man is one of the top three salaries (by far) in the Imagineering ranks. He was very close to being out of a job when Pandora fell into his lap, but that project will be opening next year. Getting the Marvel Design Studio likely keeps him employed another five years. And allows him to rub elbows with Hollywood elites and celebs at Marvel premieres. Hell, he likely has access to Bob Iger directly since getting this title.
The fact is that, despite his professed liberal leanings, Bob Iger is a very conservative man. One who doesn't trust his creatives and their output. This has been the case with WDFA, but it certainly is also the case with every other division. His prized IP acquisitions are being thrown into places they don't belong because he never had the trust to say "these films are going to be huge, let's have quality attractions ready to go" so you wind up with a low-capacity Frozen boat ride in a freaking World Showcase pavilion. And you wind up with GotG in DCA's ToT and EPCOT's Future World. And, in so doing, they dilute all of the parks even further. They all become BRAND extensions, tools if you will (not quite the same as social mediawhores are tools ... heck, I wonder how many O-Towners are going to rush to SoCal for last rides and photo retrospectives instead of say ... I dunno ... ripping the decision-making process?)
But it's great that y'all love Olaf and Thor and Darth Vader and BB-8 and Groot because that is what Disney is becoming ... and if you've only been a fan of the parks largely since 2000, you may well think this is great news. If you knew them and loved them from 1955-1999 (or thereabouts) you likely largely feel like I do. The Disney we loved is long dead and today's product is going to be very different moving forward. Some of it is going to be great. But it isn't going to transport you in the same ways that WED and WDI did for their first half century. You are largely going to get mishmashes of conflicting IPs thrown in wherever all the Bobs see fit. And some of them will fit far better than others. This one wouldn't be that.
Nemo14
Well-Known Member
"liked" this for the sheep reference...
Pam Hates Penguins
Well-Known Member
Donaldfan1934
Well-Known Member
Who really knows. I feel so bad for Kevin Fiege, James Gunn, and Joe Rohde. I could only Imagine what those 3 geniuses could create if Disney gave them the resources. Despite being in the wrong place, the UoE building should give them the opportunity to do that.
I have no clue if I will have the time and energy to go through posts, so if you asked me a question or wanted a comment ... well, I am supposed to be on summer holiday.
But I was asked to check out my old pal Andy 'now living in a nursing home in Artesia' Castro's Twitter feed regarding the news and the boy is damn accurate with his opinions (all in Twitter's 140 characters too!)
So here's a little bit of Andy, formerly of Micechat:
Mission: RETIREMENT!@21royalstreet
But screw you if you're sitting around mocking people who are disappointed because the places they love with are changing in such big ways.
But I was asked to check out my old pal Andy 'now living in a nursing home in Artesia' Castro's Twitter feed regarding the news and the boy is damn accurate with his opinions (all in Twitter's 140 characters too!)
So here's a little bit of Andy, formerly of Micechat:
- Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 6h6 hours ago
Mission: RETIREMENT! Retweeted DLP Today
They don’t care about sightlines or thematic consistency anymore.
Mission: RETIREMENT! added,
DLP Today @DLPToday
Let’s not even begin to think how you’d make this view work with a #GuardiansBREAKOUT tower… Not happening.
3 retweets15 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 6h6 hours ago
Disney has adopted the Uni model of plugging in whatever IP (as standalone ride or land) where there’s space, regardless of what’s around it
7 retweets23 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 6h6 hours ago
This is something that often works fine at Studio-themed parks like Uni or DHS, but this is not how parks like DL, DCA, Epcot, etc. work.
4 retweets20 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 6h6 hours ago
But Iger & Chapek don’t care about that — if they want something in the parks, WDI has to find a place to fit it in, regardless of theme.
3 retweets12 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 6h6 hours ago
And it extends beyond Iger and Chapek — Imagineers at the top like Tom Fitzgerald and his crew don’t care about theme either.
1 retweet7 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 5h5 hours ago
These are big reasons why I left Dateline Disneyland and don’t plan to renew my AP when it expires in December.
3 retweets7 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 5h5 hours ago
It’s not because I’m living in the past and don’t want Disneyland to change.
4 retweets13 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 5h5 hours ago
It’s because the change Disney is aggressively pursuing for its parks goes against the last 60 years of what Disney theme parks have been.
7 retweets24 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 5h5 hours ago
What had been a slow shift over the last 30 years has recently become a hard turn in the last 5-10 years.
5 retweets13 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 5h5 hours ago
This isn’t just fanboy whining, this is the acknowledgement of a significant shift in how Disney views its parks and designs for them.
5 retweets19 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 5h5 hours ago
Parks like the original Disneyland, EPCOT Center, Animal Kingdom — these are places that would never be built today under the current TWDC.
6 retweets23 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT! @21royalstreet 5h5 hours ago
If you're okay with this sort of fundamental shift in how Disney designs its parks, then that's fine. Enjoy it.
2 retweets13 likes
Mission: RETIREMENT!@21royalstreetBut screw you if you're sitting around mocking people who are disappointed because the places they love with are changing in such big ways.
MOXOMUMD
Well-Known Member
Most would like that to look "Marvel-less".
tirian
Well-Known Member
They didn't expect the Comic-Con crowd to react negatively.
MOXOMUMD
Well-Known Member
Do you think he can hear better out of that ear since it's pulled open more or is he partway deaf from all the years of earring chinking?
VJ
Well-Known Member
That I can agree with.
Castle Cake Apologist
Well-Known Member
I'm almost afraid to ask this, but do we know if the plan was dropped because cooler heads prevailed and realized it made no sense thematically, or did they just not want to pay for the overlay?
Can't say I think Guardians going to Epcot is any better, especially at the expense of the dinosaur diorama and amazing ride system of UoE. Epcot really is on its way to being the next Studios, eh? Confused and without any kind of defining identity.
tirian
Well-Known Member
Like you, I wasn't there and can only go by reports on Twitter. But as so many people have said, Iger knew this announcement would upset Disney fans; that's why he had it announced at Comic-Con. He did not, however, expect a negative reaction there, and by all accounts, he got one.
Frozen and GOTG in Epcot. GOTG shoehorned into "Hollywood" at DCA. Star Wars connected to Frontierland at DL. It's like everything is being planned by an incredibly unqualified committee.
gmajew
Premium Member
I feel Star Wars is safe until Kennedy steps down But even then I think both have a 10myear run in them.
The_Jobu
Well-Known Member
I'm also surprised if it actually got some negative reaction there. It seems like the safest bet to announce something like this as the crowd would be much more inclined to cheer anything Marvel.
My guess would be the overlay simply wouldn't work given WDW's unique ride system. I suspect DCA's single-shaft may allow them to do things they simply couldn't in WDW's, such as returning to the show-floors between drops.
Kind of funny to think how WDW, which has the better Tower, is actually much less versatile in what it can do outside of the one thing it was made to do. DCA's simpler ride system may actually be an advantage in this case (or disvantage, depending on perspective), in that it's much more flexible.
MOXOMUMD
Well-Known Member
tirian
Well-Known Member
I want someone to walk up to Iger, knock him on top his thick skull, and say, "Hello, anybody there? Do you realize your company is popular BECAUSE it created unique movies and theme park experiences the public didn't know it wanted?"
Disone
Well-Known Member
My guess would be neither of those scenarios. The studios currently has a very limited roster of attractions and to close one more right now would not make any sense to lower the already limited capacity of the park.
Last edited:
Gringrinngghost
Well-Known Member
like these have ever done anything before... https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-save-the-tower-of-terror?lang=en-US