SSG
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've joked about being able to see MB from---well, all over the resort, really--but the issue for me isn't being able to see it from the esplanade or wherever; It's that it's so bloody ugly when you do see it.
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Guardians of the Galaxy Mission Breakout announced for Disney California Adventure
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
No, my point was that no small town in the Midwest can see Switzerland's Matterhorn. Nor does any small town in the Midwest have a pink Bavarian castle at the end of the street. Similarly, when you are actually in Switzerland at the Matterhorn, you can not see a tropical lagoon at its base with atomic submarines floating by.
Sightlines are messy and jarring all over Disneyland. Most of those were set up by Walt himself, so they get a complete pass by us fans for some weird reason. Guardians of the Galaxy is a jarring sightline in the grand tradition of jarring Walt Disney sightlines like the Matterhorn, House of the Future, Adventureland entrance, etc., etc.
Guardians of the Galaxy is a shiny new thing on the parkscape, replacing the dull and faded old hotel with half its side blown off for a story based on an obscure 1960's TV show. It made no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak when it was Tower of Terror, and it will make no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak when it's Guardians of the Galaxy.
But then, Carthay Circle Theater makes absolutely no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak now, so Guardians further behind it doesn't matter. If Grizzly Peak puts me in the High Sierras in 1961 and I just went on a hanglider ride around the world in the 21st century, why the heck can I see a 1920's movie palace in West LA just past the Grizzly Peak hamburger stand??? But I'm supposed to be more worried about Guardians of the Galaxy behind a movie palace 500 miles away from the High Sierras?
It just gets so convoluted and pained. I used to volunteer at Colonial Williamsburg, the finest living history museum in the country. Disneyland is not a living history museum, it's a very good amusement park.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
Guardians of the Galaxy is a shiny new thing on the parkscape, replacing the dull and faded old hotel with half its side blown off for a story based on an obscure 1960's TV show. It made no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak when it was Tower of Terror, and it will make no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak when it's Guardians of the Galaxy.
But then, Carthay Circle Theater makes absolutely no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak now, so Guardians further behind it doesn't matter. If Grizzly Peak puts me in the High Sierras in 1961 and I just went on a hanglider ride around the world in the 21st century, why the heck can I see a 1920's movie palace in West LA just past the Grizzly Peak hamburger stand??? But I'm supposed to be more worried about Guardians of the Galaxy behind a movie palace 500 miles away from the High Sierras?
It just gets so convoluted and pained. I used to volunteer at Colonial Williamsburg, the finest living history museum in the country. Disneyland is not a living history museum, it's a very good amusement park.
So wait, you can't see Hollywood landmarks from the mountains around LA? Seeing a Californian style building in the distance when exploring a small mountain town is not unheard of. These things don't jump out at guests as being "wrong" because they aren't.
And Disneyland is a theme park, not an amusement park. There lies the difference.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Yeah, because no small American towns ever had views of snow-capped mountains.
Of course, the Western US has many mountain towns. That first photo is obviously Mount Hood, and I assume that is Oregon City on the Willamette River in the foreground. Maybe Gladstone, Oregon just up the river from Oregon City? Second photo is more vague, perhaps Colorado or Utah? Third photo is Sheridan, Wyoming?
Main Street USA is based on Marceline, Missouri, where there is not a mountain in sight. But even without a Google Image search, I can confidently state that when you are in any of the Midwest or Great Plains states you can not see the Matterhorn across the ocean in Switzerland.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
You can't see LA landmarks from the Sierras. Grizzly Peak Airfield is not just "random mountains", nor is it the Oregon Cascades or the Montana Bitterroots. Grizzly Peak is specifically set in the High Sierras, 300 to 500 miles from West Los Angeles.
Theme park is our modern term, but for the first 10 years Walt himself called it an amusement park. At Walt's big Tencennial speech at the Disneyland Hotel in 1965 he even used the four letter D word as an adjective for that "d*** amusement park" in his speech. Repeatedly. Bad, Walt, bad!
In his 1966 Epcot film, where Walt didn't have a glass of Scotch in his hand unlike his Tencennial speech, we hear Walt first use the phrase "themed amusement park" to describe what would become Magic Kingdom Park in his Florida Project. The common phrase "theme park" hadn't been invented yet, but it was getting closer.
We can call Disneyland whatever we want, since the phrase "theme park" entered the lexicon widely in the 1970's to describe every run down Six Flags cesspit in the nation. And Disneyland is certainly better than any Six Flags theme park. Call it a "Immersive Themed Experience", but at the end of the day Disneyland is still an amusement park. A darn good one, at that. Perhaps the world's finest amusement park. And/or theme park.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
Based on Marceline, but it isn't supposed to be Marceline. And from Main Street, that snowy mountain is seen as just that, a snowy mountain. When I see Grizzly Peak from Buena Vista street, do I see it as the High Sierras the land represents? No. From Buena Vista Street it appears as one of the many forested foothills and mountains we see in Southern California/Hollywood area. Things have to make sense in their frame. These objects can be other things from other angles, that's fine, but they should make sense in their picture frame.
Guardians doesn't work in the frames it inhabits. Guardians is also not pleasing to the eye in a fantastical sense. TOT was dilapidated, but in a colorful and fictional way. It was borderline cartoony, which fits within a Disney park. Guardians looks far too much like an oil refinery, and an oil refinery is not a look that really feels at home in a Disney park, even if the entire land were themed to be similar.
britain
Well-Known Member
No, my point was that no small town in the Midwest can see Switzerland's Matterhorn. Nor does any small town in the Midwest have a pink Bavarian castle at the end of the street. Similarly, when you are actually in Switzerland at the Matterhorn, you can not see a tropical lagoon at its base with atomic submarines floating by.
Sightlines are messy and jarring all over Disneyland. Most of those were set up by Walt himself, so they get a complete pass by us fans for some weird reason. Guardians of the Galaxy is a jarring sightline in the grand tradition of jarring Walt Disney sightlines like the Matterhorn, House of the Future, Adventureland entrance, etc., etc.
Guardians of the Galaxy is a shiny new thing on the parkscape, replacing the dull and faded old hotel with half its side blown off for a story based on an obscure 1960's TV show. It made no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak when it was Tower of Terror, and it will make no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak when it's Guardians of the Galaxy.
But then, Carthay Circle Theater makes absolutely no sense viewed from Grizzly Peak now, so Guardians further behind it doesn't matter. If Grizzly Peak puts me in the High Sierras in 1961 and I just went on a hanglider ride around the world in the 21st century, why the heck can I see a 1920's movie palace in West LA just past the Grizzly Peak hamburger stand??? But I'm supposed to be more worried about Guardians of the Galaxy behind a movie palace 500 miles away from the High Sierras?
It just gets so convoluted and pained. I used to volunteer at Colonial Williamsburg, the finest living history museum in the country. Disneyland is not a living history museum, it's a very good amusement park.
Good analysis, and good picture. It was a good thing placing the Carthay spire right there, but the similarity of time-period and style (and during the day, of color) made it look like the ToT was awkwardly pressed right against the Carthay. Now I think GotG sets the Carthay spire off more nicely.
...even though it still needs more stuff on it!
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I went for a walk in DCA late yesterday afternoon. The sun was hitting Guardians in spectacular fashion. It looked bold and colorful and very noticeable. And it looked really cool, very unique and unusual. Lots of people around me were talking about it, all in interested or impressed tones. It's eye catching already, and it's still half behind tarps.
If you hate the concept of Guardians taking over Tower of Terror, you are REALLY going to hate it when you see it in person. Pictures don't do it justice.
You can't see Guardians from Buena Vista Street or Carthay Circle, just as you couldn't see Tower of Terror from there. But you can see it if you walk back into Grizzly Peak. And you can see it if you walk eastbound on the DCA parade route out of Paradise Pier. You can also see it in parts of Cars Land.
It makes just as little sense from most park vistas as a half-destroyed and very faded Mission Deco hotel did.
In short, it makes no sense. But it looks cool, and the kids are going to love it. Something tells me many of the folks complaining about it here will be in the three hour long lines for it this summer. While Bob Chapek and Michael Colglazier laugh all the way to the bank.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Landmarks can be seen from Los Angeles mountains, depending on where you are.
Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
But you're not seeing "Switzerland's Matterhorn." This is Disneyland's. We can argue about stupid little stuff like that all day. I'm looking at Big Thunder aka Bryce Canyon and the Mississippi River next to each other oh no. And Main St is NOT Marceline MO. It is was inspired by it. I'm not sure why you are going all in on this line of thought.
The point is whether or not the scenery makes sense. Seeing a mountain in the background of an American small town does make sense. MB blends into Main St scenery better than a snow capped mountain is what you said. That is what elicited several responses in disagreement with you.
Of course there are sight line issues in every park including Disney Sea. No one disputes that. Walt doesn't get a pass, but they were trying to figure out what a theme park even was at that point. It has evolved a lot since then and so yes there are higher standards now then before because the idea of a theme park has evolved. The first time you did a task, would you be expected to do it perfect? no. How about the 10th time? Maybe not, but much better than the first. If Walt did things in 2017 that he did in the 1950's and 60's you better believe people would be calling him out.
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Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
Do you think there has ever been an instance of something like this being a huge financial success and the big wigs LITERALLY laughing all the way to the bank? I'd love to see that.
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
For anyone who's counting, there are 13 satellite dishes and 1,830 square feet of corrugated steel material on the tower. Per permit filed last year.
SSG
Well-Known Member
How much pipe?
SSG
Well-Known Member
I am a pipe layer, like my father before me.
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
How many stations does it get?
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
1,200,523, but that's including regular and HD.