Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind SPOILER Thread

[TrainsOfDisney]

The bitter nature of some Disney fans really is sad to see although I understand the reasons. If I enjoy a ride then I enjoy a ride - end of story.

If a ride is just enjoyable at a cost of $450 million and the destruction of an original Epcot pavilion it’s fair to ask “is it worth it?”

Of course that’s debatable. I think a red car trolley addition at DHS would be worth it and many wouldn’t agree. But for $450 m I’m pretty sure we could have gotten an updated Imagination pavilion, updated universe of energy and a bare bones coaster that had a marvel name and was still a “fun ride” - that’s where there is room for debate here.

Out of curiousity, when did you last visit Disneyland Paris? I’ve heard upkeep has improved there.

 

[Casper Gutman]

All I can say Martin is that some attractions are so bad it goes without saying

By the way did you hear the bad news mate, Market Dave passed away this week

See, F&F is quite bad, but its bad in a fun way, like a great bad movie. The lack of the protective Disney brand aura and the honesty of the designers, however, has helped set it as some sort of low water mark for Orlando theme park attractions, which it just isn't. I find F&F much, much more enjoyable then Mission: Space, the current Imagination, or Smuggler's Run, just off the top of my head. Plus, F&F is already well on its way out, while, despite literally killing several guests, Space has existed for decades (longer then Horizons) and just got a major addition that makes clear that its here to stay.

 

[Omega Centauri]

As Walt said, EPCOT will always be in a state of becoming.

I'm getting really tired of people using this reasoning of "Walt said Disneyland/World would never be complete, therefore, every change is a good/necessary one!" Also hi there everyone, I've mostly lurked around these sites for years so I suppose I should give my take on what EPCOT "should" be.

Truthfully I think the whole idea of EPCOT as a "24/7 World's Fair" has a lot of potential and makes it stand out as a unique theme park, and in some ways a necessary one. If Magic Kingdom is a park about how awesome fantasy and make believe is, EPCOT (ideally) should be about the ways our own world is awesome and could be even more awesome. It should show us the innovations made by mankind over the years, and show the incredible things that can be done with newer innovations for the worlds of utility and art. It should be an outright stubbornly optimistic rally cry that our "spaceship Earth" CAN be a wonderful place. And yet, I think Disney ended up doubting themselves because they kept missing the mark with the balance between education and, well, imagination.

People want to ride alongside dinosaurs and see the wonders of the world in action, what they DON'T want to do is sit in a theater for 30 minutes and be lectured at. Rides like Horizons, Journey Into Imagination, and even the entire Wonders of Life pavilion got it right, but others like UoE and Living with the Land were a snoozefest for the average guest most of the time. Then, Disney eventually threw their hands in the air and said "screw it, I guess reality is always too boring and upsetting!" and eventually that's how you got your "Seas with Nemo and Friends" and "Frozen Ever After" rides (Well, I'm sure the brand recognition also helps attract guests and gets those ticket sales up). I'm sure we'll eventually get even better rides for EPCOT over the years, but I'll always be a little upset that they turned "A look into how our own world is magical" to "Tomorrowland 2: Nova Corps Boogaloo."

 

[Casper Gutman]

If a ride is just enjoyable at a cost of $450 million and the destruction of an original Epcot pavilion it’s fair to ask “is it worth it?”

Of course that’s debatable. I think a red car trolley addition at DHS would be worth it and many wouldn’t agree. But for $450 m I’m pretty sure we could have gotten an updated Imagination pavilion, updated universe of energy and a bare bones coaster that had a marvel name and was still a “fun ride” - that’s where there is room for debate here.

Out of curiousity, when did you last visit Disneyland Paris? I’ve heard upkeep has improved there.

I've never seen upkeep at a Disney resort that is as bad as it is at WDW. The last time I was at the Grand Floridian, for instance, I saw paint peeling in several places and a large chunk of marble fell off the lobby elevator wall as we rode up. I haven't been to DLP in many years, but found the upkeep there and at DL far superior.

Disney really could have saved almost all of that $450 million. The overwhelming bulk of the positive reviews for GotG rest on the Vekoma coaster and the classic pop tunes. Everything that Disney added with the rest of that nearly half billion usually gets ignored, noted in passing, or listed as a drawback. For real guest satisfaction, the way forward for Disney seems clear - long family (yet strangely nauseating) coasters playing The Thong Song while televisions show images of popular film characters.

 

[Incomudro]

Have people been walking right on out of the FL summer heat or is there a good wait even after checking in? Just curious as that will not fix everything but standing in a cool building awhile before boarding will help also.

The ride cars turn in a relationship that gives riders the best view, or the view that the ride designers want riders to see - much like omnimovers - just travelling on a quicker track.
They don't whip riders around just for the sake of turning them like carnival rides do.
I don't know what could be done that wouldn't effect the desired premise of the ride.

 

[mergatroid]

See, F&F is quite bad, but its bad in a fun way, like a great bad movie. The lack of the protective Disney brand aura and the honesty of the designers, however, has helped set it as some sort of low water mark for Orlando theme park attractions, which it just isn't. I find F&F much, much more enjoyable then Mission: Space, the current Imagination, or Smuggler's Run, just off the top of my head. Plus, F&F is already well on its way out, while, despite literally killing several guests, Space has existed for decades (longer then Horizons) and just got a major addition that makes clear that its here to stay.

Hey you enjoy it, then fair enough.

 

[Incomudro]

If a ride is just enjoyable at a cost of $450 million and the destruction of an original Epcot pavilion it’s fair to ask “is it worth it?”

Of course that’s debatable. I think a red car trolley addition at DHS would be worth it and many wouldn’t agree. But for $450 m I’m pretty sure we could have gotten an updated Imagination pavilion, updated universe of energy and a bare bones coaster that had a marvel name and was still a “fun ride” - that’s where there is room for debate here.

Out of curiousity, when did you last visit Disneyland Paris? I’ve heard upkeep has improved there.

Virtually no park goers know or care what any ride costs.
Who thinks like that?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I'm getting really tired of people using this reasoning of "Walt said Disneyland/World would never be complete, therefore, every change is a good/necessary one!"

The justification of "Disneyland is not a museum" also needs to go because it ignores all the ways the parks are both figurately and literally a museum, and better for it.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Virtually no park goers know or care what any ride costs.
Who thinks like that?

As folks have said repeatedly in reply to this, park goers DO care when ticket, hotel, food, and merchandise prices are through the roof, maintenance is lackluster, much-needed new rides aren't built, and even extremely high profile new attractions with insane price tags have multiple key elements cut entirely - all because Disney is so astonishingly bad at controlling budgets.

Oh, and in the case of GotG its particularly worthy of note, because so little of the astronomical cost showed up in the attraction itself.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Virtually no park goers know or care what any ride costs.
Who thinks like that?

Ok... but those of us in this thread do know what the ride costs.

 

[Incomudro]

Ok... but those of us in this thread do know what the ride costs.

Right, that's like three people.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Right, that's like three people.

I’m not sure what you’re saying, we shouldn’t discuss the cost in this thread because the average park goer doesn’t know the cost?

 

[Incomudro]

As folks have said repeatedly in reply to this, park goers DO care when ticket, hotel, food, and merchandise prices are through the roof, maintenance is lackluster, much-needed new rides aren't built, and even extremely high profile new attractions with insane price tags have multiple key elements cut entirely - all because Disney is so astonishingly bad at controlling budgets.

Oh, and in the case of GotG its particularly worthy of note, because so little of the astronomical cost showed up in the attraction itself.

Right... I understand that, and there is much that is neglected.
But 99% of park goers and Disney hotel guests don't know these things.
They certainly don't judge their enjoyment of a ride - this is about the ride - based on some knowledge (which they likely don't have) of how much it costs.
If we sat them down, and had a budgetary discussion with them - yes, perhaps they'd agree that the expenditures were wrong, or the funds were inadequately allocated.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Right, that's like three people.

Not only is this a ridiculous dismissal, since this is a month-old 70 page thread with many more than three people, but it's perfectly reasonable for that amount of people here who do know the cost to discuss it.

It's ridiculous to suggest the price tag of this attraction is inadmissable to the discussion of people who do know it simply because other people who aren't part of this discussion don't.

Especially because the amount of money does have a material impact, even on the people who don't know the cost.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Right... I understand that, and there is much that is neglected.
But 99% of park goers and Disney hotel guests don't know these things.
They certainly don't judge their enjoyment of a ride - this is about the ride - based on some knowledge (which they likely don't have) of how much it costs.
If we sat them down, and had a budgetary discussion with them - yes, perhaps they'd agree that the expenditures were wrong, or the funds were inadequately allocated.

So you're saying the discussion points are objectively valid, but because the information that validates them isn't widely known we shouldn't discuss them?

That sounds like all the more reason to discuss them. Silly.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I'm getting really tired of people using this reasoning of "Walt said Disneyland/World would never be complete, therefore, every change is a good/necessary one!" Also hi there everyone, I've mostly lurked around these sites for years so I suppose I should give my take on what EPCOT "should" be.

Truthfully I think the whole idea of EPCOT as a "24/7 World's Fair" has a lot of potential and makes it stand out as a unique theme park, and in some ways a necessary one. If Magic Kingdom is a park about how awesome fantasy and make believe is, EPCOT (ideally) should be about the ways our own world is awesome and could be even more awesome. It should show us the innovations made by mankind over the years, and showing the incredible things that can be done with newer innovations for the worlds of utility and art. It should be an outright stubbornly optimistic rally cry that our "spaceship Earth" CAN be a wonderful place. And yet, I think Disney ended up doubting themselves because they kept missing the mark with the balance between education and, well, imagination.

People want to ride alongside dinosaurs and see the wonders of the world in action, what they DON'T want to do is sit in a theater for 30 minutes and be lectured at. Rides like Horizons, Journey Into Imagination, and even the entire Wonders of Life pavilion got it right, but others like UoE and Living with the Land were a snoozefest for the average guest most of the time. Then, Disney eventually threw their hands in the air and said "screw it, I guess reality is always too boring and upsetting!" and eventually that's how you got your "Seas with Nemo and Friends" and "Frozen Ever After" rides (Well, I'm sure the brand recognition also helps attract guests and gets those ticket sales up). I'm sure we'll eventually get even better rides for EPCOT over the years, but I'll always be a little upset that they turned "A look into how our own world is magical" to "Tomorrowland 2: Nova Corps Boogaloo."

Walts quote, EPCOT will always be in a state of becoming" , is not a rationalization, its his quote and it applies here.
What is it becoming we may not like, but there is nothing we can do about it.
Don't get me wrong, I loved Horizons!
I also like Mission Space, I wish we had both!
I liked the original Test Track storyline (actual testing) but I like the original Test Track better than World of Motion.
I liked Malstrom, I always watched the film at the end
I also like Frozen, I think its a well done overlay
I would have preferred an update or overlay to the Energy Pavilion because I really liked that ride system, and yes the dinos.
But we got Guardians. nothing we can do about it. I am onboard with it, it's got a EWF song
Do I want Moana in EPCOT? No! But I will stroll through it to get out of the direct heat.
Don't get me started on Harmonious, but if I am there, I will watch it.

EPCOT will be whatever TWDC says it is. I am not going to fight it anymore...

 

[Incomudro]

So you're saying the discussion points are objectively valid, but because the information that validates them isn't widely known we shouldn't discuss them?

That sounds like all the more reason to discuss them. Silly.

I'm saying that from the perspective of 99% of park goers, and WDW hotel guests, the idea of how much a ride cost is a silly topic.
Silly.
And yes, outside of about three people who inhabit this board - no one cares.
This board is 70 pages long, largely because the same group of us rehash the same arguments in a circular fashion.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I'm saying that from the perspective of 99% of park goers, and WDW hotel guests, the idea of how much a ride cost is a silly topic.
Silly.
And yes, outside of about three people who inhabit this board - no one cares.
This board is 70 pages long, largely because the same group of us rehash the same arguments in a circular fashion.

So then the discussions outside of this page can continue to not care and not discuss it.

News Flash: 99% of park goers couldn't care about anything we post on these boards. To them all of our topics are silly. We come here to discuss it with each other because we care. You seem to be demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of what a message board is for.

You're coming to the place where people gather around a subject they care about and . . . acting surprised that they care?

 

[solidyne]

I think both perspectives are correct.

Imagine a friend takes you to dinner and pays the bill. (You don't see the menu or the check.) That night you jot down your thoughts about how the meal tasted. The next day, you friend tells you how much it cost, which turns out to be twice as much as you would have guessed. You do not go back to your notes and change your opinions about the taste of the food. The food itself "was what it was."

However, if you later are talking to folks about the restaurant business and what restaurateurs should or shouldn't do, you might want to think about the bad choices of that particular place you visited and how it could be much better managed. You might even decide not to go back.

The first scenario is like talking about the attraction itself. Is it good? Does it fit? Is it innovative? Does it have AAs? Will I want to go back? The second scenario is more about what could have been. How could that money have been put to better use? Was it worth it? I think it's fair to talk about both.

 

[James Alucobond]

I think both perspectives are correct.

Imagine a friend takes you to dinner and pays the bill. (You don't see the menu or the check.) That night you jot down your thoughts about how the meal tasted. The next day, you friend tells you how much it cost, which turns out to be twice as much as you would have guessed. You do not go back to your notes and change your opinions about the taste of the food. The food itself "was what it was."

However, if you later are talking to folks about the restaurant business and what restaurateurs should or shouldn't do, you might want to think about the bad choices of that particular place you visited and how it could be much better managed. You might even decide not to go back.

The first scenario is like talking about the attraction itself. Is it good? Does it fit? Is it innovative? Does it have AAs? Will I want to go back? The second scenario is more about what could have been. How could that money have been put to better use? Was it worth it? I think it's fair to talk about both.

I generally agree, but the cost of an attraction is not as easy to respond to as overly expensive food. If I find a meal too expensive for the quality, I won't pay for it again (or at all, assuming your hypothetical in which someone else paid for it the first time). The cost of a single attraction, on the other hand, doesn't have as obvious a correlation to my ticket price and only represents a fraction of my overall experience at the parks, which I may in totality deem to be worth the price of admission even if I don't have 450 million dollars worth of love for the shiny new thing.