Guardians of the Galaxy coming to Energy Pavilion at Epcot

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OvertheHorizon

Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope that as the Disney organization and WDI grapples with what will become of Epcot, that they will put in place a sustainable vision. Most of us who were around when Epcot Center opened have a sense of what was intended for the park. If the focus (for Future World) was edutainment, recent decisions seem to be in the direction of enter-cation. There's nothing wrong with that shift, in my opinion, as long as the end result continues to inspire new generations to the promise of how innovations in technology can help all of us in making a more productive world.

Millions return to enjoy the Magic Kingdom each year, entranced by attractions that have been the hallmark of the park since it opened. Yes, there have been upgrades and plusses to some of those attractions, but we still enjoy Peter Pan's Flight, the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, Space Mountain, etc., which in the grand scheme of things haven't changed all that much over four and a half decades. In many respects, those attractions are timeless.

Part of the model for Epcot relied on costly corporate sponsorship. In retrospect, this was not a model that would be sustainable. I can understand Disney moving in the direction of using their IP to build audiences and reap the benefit of the synergy (with movies, TV, video games, etc.) from doing so. But as an eloquent person once observed on these boards, they could have added the Nemo characters to The Seas without relying on retelling the Nemo story. Instead, the characters could have articulated the message of The Living Seas. An aside, I miss the hydrolators.

I still think Corporate America could be a part of the technology/futuristic message of Epcot. Imagine if Innoventions were laid out with dozens of smaller booths showcasing the kind of innovations seen at the annual consumer electronics show in Las Vegas, or in various home shows. Rather than try and fill those spaces (in the old Communicore) with just a couple of major exhibits, there could be a veritable buffet of corporate involvement. At a price tag corporate sponsors might be more willing to pay.

Spaceship Earth and Living With the Land seem to me like two examples of attractions which have changed just enough over the years to keep the public's interest. A design model that enables keeping a core message while updating endings or post ride exhibits seems the way to go. Otherwise, the "life" of a pavilion's "show" is probably limited to no more than 20 years - as Ellen's Energy Adventure so aptly demonstrates.

Norway pavilion's recent expansion is the first development of one of the spaces for a new pavilion since Morocco opened in the late 80s. During the Millennium celebration, Disney added a tent structure to showcase 30 - 40 (can't remember exactly) other countries. Now that space is used for private parties/events.

And to allow a pavilion built to showcase Life and Health to languish for only seasonal activities is a big waste.

Finally, continuing to allow a design worthy of a high-class mausoleum, to mark the entrance to the park speaks volumes as to how there is not yet a clear picture of how to make Epcot relevant for the future.

As much as I loved the original Epcot Center, I know that change is inevitable. If it all returned overnight to the way it was in 1982, even those of us who loved it would find lots of fault - our memories giving it more credit than it might be due.

But I'm an optimist, and I look forward to change that is sustainable.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope that as the Disney organization and WDI grapples with what will become of Epcot, that they will put in place a sustainable vision. Most of us who were around when Epcot Center opened have a sense of what was intended for the park. If the focus (for Future World) was edutainment, recent decisions seem to be in the direction of enter-cation. There's nothing wrong with that shift, in my opinion, as long as the end result continues to inspire new generations to the promise of how innovations in technology can help all of us in making a more productive world.

Millions return to enjoy the Magic Kingdom each year, entranced by attractions that have been the hallmark of the park since it opened. Yes, there have been upgrades and plusses to some of those attractions, but we still enjoy Peter Pan's Flight, the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, Space Mountain, etc., which in the grand scheme of things haven't changed all that much over four and a half decades. In many respects, those attractions are timeless.

Part of the model for Epcot relied on costly corporate sponsorship. In retrospect, this was not a model that would be sustainable. I can understand Disney moving in the direction of using their IP to build audiences and reap the benefit of the synergy (with movies, TV, video games, etc.) from doing so. But as an eloquent person once observed on these boards, they could have added the Nemo characters to The Seas without relying on retelling the Nemo story. Instead, the characters could have articulated the message of The Living Seas. An aside, I miss the hydrolators.

I still think Corporate America could be a part of the technology/futuristic message of Epcot. Imagine if Innoventions were laid out with dozens of smaller booths showcasing the kind of innovations seen at the annual consumer electronics show in Las Vegas, or in various home shows. Rather than try and fill those spaces (in the old Communicore) with just a couple of major exhibits, there could be a veritable buffet of corporate involvement. At a price tag corporate sponsors might be more willing to pay.

Spaceship Earth and Living With the Land seem to me like two examples of attractions which have changed just enough over the years to keep the public's interest. A design model that enables keeping a core message while updating endings or post ride exhibits seems the way to go. Otherwise, the "life" of a pavilion's "show" is probably limited to no more than 20 years - as Ellen's Energy Adventure so aptly demonstrates.

Norway pavilion's recent expansion is the first development of one of the spaces for a new pavilion since Morocco opened in the late 80s. During the Millennium celebration, Disney added a tent structure to showcase 30 - 40 (can't remember exactly) other countries. Now that space is used for private parties/events.

And to allow a pavilion built to showcase Life and Health to languish for only seasonal activities is a big waste.

Finally, continuing to allow a design worthy of a high-class mausoleum, to mark the entrance to the park speaks volumes as to how there is not yet a clear picture of how to make Epcot relevant for the future.

As much as I loved the original Epcot Center, I know that change is inevitable. If it all returned overnight to the way it was in 1982, even those of us who loved it would find lots of fault - our memories giving it more credit than it might be due.

But I'm an optimist, and I look forward to change that is sustainable.

Innoventions should absolutely be a year-round CES or E3 area, with pop-up exhibits that change as soon as the tech is ready. Heck, some tech companies could just move their exhibits to Epcot right after the respective conferences end.

Unfortunately, the E3 booth babes probably wouldn't come to Epcot. :mad: :bawling:
 

DisneyJayL

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
If you actually take into account who is making these decisions and what their motives are, then its understandable. These decisions are not being made with the same delicacy, concept and long term vision for the park that its original designers did. Thats not a cry for old EPCOT to return either.

Abandoning reality based attractions for whimsical, pop up storybook drive by's is not only bad form, but its completely void of creativity. Its just another situation in which we are left saying the same things weve said about the last few attractions.."lets hope", "lets wait and see", etc, etc,. Im tired of hoping, and waiting.
What I don't get is nobody really knows what they are going to do. All we've heard, really, is Guardians are coming to EPCOT. Heck, I want future to keep its theming too, but the anger is laughable.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Now it would be their chance to plus the Dinosaur ride at Animal Kingdom with extra animatronics and scenary, altough I guess it wont happen.
Problem is they'd be a mismatch stylistically, what with Energy/Primeval World's dinosaurs being rooted in 60s paleoart versus the more contemporary ones at Animal Kingdom. The Magic Kingdom could use a Primeval World diorama with those dinosaurs though.
 

DisneyGentlemanV2.0

Well-Known Member
If the focus (for Future World) was edutainment, recent decisions seem to be in the direction of enter-cation.
In the ancient times when TWDC was a studio, they made educational films and edu-tainment was a natural outgrowth of that.

Today, it is a mega-collector of IP on the international market and it follows that EPCOT will specialize in IP-tainment.

It's not gonna change folks, like it or not.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
In the ancient times when TWDC was a studio, they made educational films and edu-tainment was a natural outgrowth of that.

Today, it is a mega-collector of IP on the international market and it follows that EPCOT will specialize in IP-tainment.

It's not gonna change folks, like it or not.
The best we can hope for is Figment and Dreamfinder once again being featured in a great Journey into Imagination ride. Fits right into "IP-tainment" since Figment is a very marketable character as proven by the success of the comic series.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Today, it is a mega-collector of IP on the international market and it follows that EPCOT will specialize in IP-tainment.

It's true; it is how TWDC sees itself. And EPCOT will probably be forever 'dumbed down' for it....even though it would fit better elsewhere as has been suggested numerous times.

Me, bitter? Yep! I'm willing to adjust to an Epcot overhaul/ new theme, but I want something more than 'IP Central', and not something overly convoluted.
(PS I think calling it IPcot is going to stick, @Mike S )
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Speaking of IPCOT, there seems to be a basic lack of awareness on the company's part that each and every Disney theme park is its own IP. As such, each has its own fans and those fans have certain expectations about what is appropriate in each park. Let's say Disney hired me as a movie director and told me that my first assignment was Frozen 2. Do you think I could walk into a meeting and shoe horn a 10 minute appearance by Captain America into the movie since it is a) synergistic, b) would increase the popularity of something that is already insanely popular by drawing little boys, and c) just cool and besides, his red, white, and blue color palette matches Anna's dress in the scene where he saves her from the pirates?

An updated pavilion about energy isn't hard. If they're going to gut the whole thing.....here's an idea (I have more and I have some where the basic pavilion is kept as is. In all my basic pavilion kept as is ideas, the Radok blocks are brought back. There also seems to be a lack of realization that beyond the big picture things, little things like the Radok blocks were what wowed folk like me when I was younger. Of course, they wait until I have money to denude the park, but that's another story) - 1) have a 3 minute, 18 second roller coaster (thrill level = (BTMRR + 7DMT)/2) where you have little displays that show your ride vehicle's potential and kinetic energy at different points on the track. 2) Have an area where the big overarching message is access to energy has made all our lives easier while letting us do the work of tens of people even on days when we mostly sit around. It will be an interactive play area. You will do things like try and clean little bits of rubber embedded in a carpet with your hands while your neighbor vacuums. How much longer did it take you? Roughly how much energy did you use? How much did the vacuum use? This is an example of just one of 10-12 stations I'm envisioning. Another station would be the classic bike/lightbulb area. I think you get the idea. 3) A 4-D movie where you learn about the different ways energy is generated and at the end you are shrunk down and whiz along power lines with all your electron friends into someone's house. I'm thinking you'll be powering an oven baking banana bread so you have an excuse to get hammered with that scent. In earlier scenes you can feel the wind as it turns the turbines, you get blasted with heat when you're in a coal fired power plant, the whole room will glow an incandescent yellow orange when you're inside a reactor, etc.

^^^I'm not typing this to show that my ideas about the energy pavilion are great. I'm just typing this to show that it shouldn't be that hard for them to come up with a compelling presentation about something that is so central to the condition of modern humanity. Something that should be a cornerstone of Futureworld.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Speaking of IPCOT, there seems to be a basic lack of awareness on the company's part that each and every Disney theme park is its own IP. As such, each has its own fans and those fans have certain expectations about what is appropriate in each park. Let's say Disney hired me as a movie director and told me that my first assignment was Frozen 2. Do you think I could walk into a meeting and shoe horn a 10 minute appearance by Captain America into the movie since it is a) synergistic, b) would increase the popularity of something that is already insanely popular by drawing little boys, and c) just cool and besides, his red, white, and blue color palette matches Anna's dress in the scene where he saves her from the pirates?
Genius! I can't belive they're unable to see this. As for pitching Captain America in Frozen 2, Lasseter and the WDAS team would definitely push against it, but I wouldn't put it past Iger and the execs to try and shoehorn him in if they didn't let Lasseter have the final say. I think that's the problem here, the executives have much more control over the theme parks so they're loosing their integrity.
 
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danlb_2000

Premium Member
I don't doubt that WDI could come up with an original idea if they were given the opportunity. The problem is they aren't. The corporate directive is movie rides, or no rides at all, and the customers love Disneyversal Studios Land.

This hits the nail right on the head for me. People keep saying "Epcot needs to change", and I agree with that, but simply throwing in the currently popular IP isn't the only options, but it's probably being pushed because it's the easiest and lowest risk thing to do.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
It's true; it is how TWDC sees itself. And EPCOT will probably be forever 'dumbed down' for it....even though it would fit better elsewhere as has been suggested numerous times.

Me, bitter? Yep! I'm willing to adjust to an Epcot overhaul/ new theme, but I want something more than 'IP Central', and not something overly convoluted.
(PS I think calling it IPcot is going to stick, @Mike S )
image.jpeg

Courtesy of scott_walker on OU.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
I don't doubt that WDI could come up with an original idea if they were given the opportunity. The problem is they aren't. The corporate directive is movie rides, or no rides at all, and the customers love Disneyversal Studios Land.

This hits the nail right on the head for me. People keep saying "Epcot needs to change", and I agree with that, but simply throwing in the currently popular IP isn't the only options, but it's probably being pushed because it's the easiest and lowest risk thing to do.

I didn't mean to imply that they couldn't. In fact, I mean it is easy to do. Really easy. Conceptualizing a land, pavilion, ride, etc. and how it fits into the surrounding environment isn't hard. I'm sure there are already tons of ideas about an energy pavilion in the halls of WDI and that doesn't include the ideas that have just been kept inside various noggins. I think @danlb_2000 is correct in his perspective about management's current view. I would just add three things. 1) They are wrong about what is easy. It is easier to come up with ideas, etc. for something that fits. Look a schmuck like me can do it by thinking about it for several seconds from time to time. 2) It is not merely the lower risk they see. They also see more profit. They are certainly right about that in the short-term. In the long-term they may be wrong. If EPCOT is merely DHS/MK-Lite, then I'd think it would become the easiest to skip theme park in Orlando. 3) Current management doesn't see the theme parks as unique IPs like their other properties. If they did, some of these ideas wouldn't even exist.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Genius! I can't belive they're unable to see this. As for pitching Captain America in Frozen 2, Lasseter and the WDAS team would definitely push against it, but I wouldn't put it past Iger and the execs to at to try and shoehorn him in if they didn't let Lasseter have the final say. I think that's the problem here, the executives have much more control over the theme parks so they're loosing their integrity.

I think you would get laughed out of the room at the suggestion. The theme parks aren't treated the same way as other intellectual properties at the moment. For decades they were. It will be real interesting to see what happens in the post-Iger era with the Disney theme park empire.
 

AndyMagic

Well-Known Member
I know there have been ups and downs over the course of Disney World's lifespan but I honestly never thought I'd ever see such complete disregard for long term planning. Every new rumor that I hear sounds so absurd it would have been immediately discounted as trolling 10 years ago. The theme parks are now apparently under the full control of a 16 year old playing Roller coaster Tycoon.

"Ohh hey, what about if we put this here!!
"Yeah man, people seem to need a new ride and that one is old. "
Perfect! What should we put there? Ummmm.... This one??
"It's about the same size and we won't have to fiddle with the walking paths too much."
"Great! Let's just add a few benches and an umbrella stand and we're good to go!"
 
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