Grand Fiesta

[socalkdg]

However, there was just as large a group of guests that went to Disney for the Disney. So, seeing characters and the "familiar" of Disney is the point. My only point is that it is a departure from what Epcot was, and it may eventually turn off many guests that are regulars just as it draws in others. It is a change, and that carries all the benefits and risks of that.

It seems that Disney has tried to put characters into the countries that they belong like Mulan in China, Snow White in Germany, which helps with the combining of the old Epcot and the new Epcot. My daughter enjoyed talking to Mulan while waiting for the movie in China to start . To me this doesn't distract from that Country.

I'd be interested in knowing how much input each country has when it comes to something like adding characters. Did Mexico have any input in this change.

 

[Slowjack]

As I have said before, I don't think they needed to update it with millions of dollars. It is merely a conversation about the goals of these attractions. The best way I can put it is whether you enjoyed the "Disney" or the "World" part of WDW. This looks like it will play to a demographic that really enjoys the Disney part of it. However, the more things change, the more the "World" people will spread out visits or stop coming altogether. Furthermore, the "World" people have been coming for over 30 years; the "Disney" people are more of a risk simply because it is a new direction. They may be greater in number; they may go for a couple years and then get bored. That is simply a decision Disney must make. [snip]

The big issue I have is that people are comparing ERDT as it was last year to this new attraction in discussing magic. Instead, it really should be a comparison of input. ERDT had just short of a 25 year run. It is questionable if this new attraction will get 20% of that. I'm not citing that as a fault; all I saying is let's compare apples to apples. IMHO, this is a fix, and it will need another fix much sooner than its predecessor.

Well said...these were the points I was trying to make in my previous posts.

I think one other way of looking at your first point...Disney vs. World...is that the parks as a whole seem to be skewing much younger than before. If you look at all the new stroller parking areas and so on, it's clear than more young kids are coming than ever before. Previously, not every park had something that was geared towards the little ones, but now its like all the parks are expected to gear down to the youngest ages. I think that more than anything has led to the homogenizing of the parks.

And you're right, it's an experiment. Can they bring more young children to the non-MK parks without losing the audience that liked the original intent, and like their parks to each have separate identities? And also, when these young kids become older kids, will they still want to go to Disney, or will they consider it kiddie-land? I visited Epcot as a teenager around 1985, and while I still enjoyed MK, it was Epcot that captured my imagination.

I'm totally in favor of updating Epcot's outdated attractions...I just hope to see new Epcot attractions, not new MK attractions placed in Epcot.

 

[Slowjack]

So we agree an upgrade was required. You don't like the choices, I disagree. By taking adult subjects like Mexico and the Seas and adding in features that kids enjoy as well you end up with something that the whole family enjoys.

Its no different then my daughters Vsmile videogame. It teaches numbers, letters, spelling by adding characters and making it a game. She is in preschool but has already mastered almost all aspects of kindergarten. Its fun and its educating.

Nemo was a family movie, not a kid movie. Mexico was completely geared towards adults, now there might be something for the kids as well. I enjoyed the boat ride in Mexico, my daughter didn't. If I still enjoy it after the changes(very important) plus my daughter now enjoys it because of the overlay, mission accomplished.

I can see your point. But here's another angle. I like the MK and so I like MK style attractions, but I like the variety at WDW...I like that Epcot had its own feel. I sometimes tell people that Epcot is the world's only theme park dedicated to the idea that tomorrow will be better than today. With these new rides and overlays, Epcot is losing that feel.

Look at it this way...Disney makes films like the Lion King or Pixar films like Toy Story...great films "for the whole family" as they used to say in ads. But they also makes films like Pirates of the Caribbean, which while suitable for older kids, is rated PG-13, and even without considering some of the violence and so on, would have stretches in them that would bore younger kids. There are some people who like Pirates who probably never watch Disney animated films, and there's some people who only watch the animated films, and some who like it all. If Disney only made one kind of film or the other, we'd be missing out on some great movies. In the same way, I think Epcot should remain Epcot...by all means, a reinvigorated and improved Epcot, but one that resists the impulse to become another MK.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Let's keep in mind that recent additions have included Expedition Everest, Soarin', Lights, Motors, Action, and Mission: Space. These have been the attractions that Disney has spent the most on, and none of them are geared toward toddlers. Disney is still happy to focus some attractions toward the big kids, and if they want to build a playground here and there or a few Kidcot stations, I don't have a huge problem with it. Are we letting a few reasonably cheap layovers overtake $400,000,000 in investments toward big kid rides? I think that's a bit of an absurd argument to make. There is no risk of WDW becoming Cypress Gardens. I still find The Seas very educational, we just don't hear "and they rained...and they rained...and they rained...the deluge," anymore. It's not the end of Epcot. And the park attendance numbers would suggest no one has been alienated, and if they have, they are in a small minority. This is not Disneyland...WDW can do just fine solely on the vacationers (and they do). And I might point out that as someone who goes to WDW a lot, you can only tell me so many times how the oceans were made by lots of rain before I get bored. The characters are much more timeless to me than what is generally common knowledge, or in the case of places like Wonders of Life, simply inaccurate.

 

[mharrington]

I am sure this has already been said.

But today on my Disney Link they had a notice about the changes to the El Rio del Tempo ride in Mexico.

It talks about the Three Caballeros overlay for the new ride.


This is what it says:

Gran Fiesta Tour Starring The Three Caballeros

At Epcot’s Mexico pavilion, “Gran Fiesta Tour Starring the Three Caballeros” debuts (replacing ‘El Rio Del Tempo’) with a new storyline and film featuring Donald Duck, Jose Carioca (the parrot), and Panchito (the Mexican charro rooster) from the 1944 film “The Three Caballeros.”

The “Gran Fiesta Tour’ film features an animated overlay of the caballeros being reunited for a grand performance in Mexico City. Along the way, Donald disappears to take in the sights of the country leaving Jose and Panchito to search for their missing friend.

In addition to the new film, the boat ride’s props, set facades and sound system have been refurbished and enhanced.

Great! My sister loves Donald Duck (hence, she likes PhilharMagic) and Three Caballeros is one of her all-time favorite Disney movies ever. She will love this attraction!

 

[MMP]

Just what was so educational about El Rio De Tiempo in the first place? Did anyone really learn anything about Mexican culture besides the fact that they have cliff divers, flea markets, and underwater cocktail bars? I really don't feel like any cultural merit is being lost by adding the three cabs because I don't feel like there was much cultural merit to begin with.

 

[CThaddeus]

All I want to know is: are the Three Caballeros still "gay," or will they now just be "happy?"
If it gets rid of the awful, stereotypical street vendor scenes, I'm 100% for this rehab. I loved El Rio Del Tiempo, but that part just made me feel queasy.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It's kind of hard to celebrate a culture without representing stereotypes. Sure there are negative stereotypes about every culture, but there's always an element of truth engrained in that. Personally I think the America pavilion should have a buffet. Perhaps we can move body wars over to America as well, change the video so it's what's happening when someone has a heart attack... Obesity The Experience

 

[jmuboy]

ummmm, is it GRAN (no D) or GRAND (with a D). If it has no D the ride name will REALLY get on my nerves.

 

[CThaddeus]

ummmm, is it GRAN (no D) or GRAND (with a D). If it has no D the ride name will REALLY get on my nerves.

If the ride has no D it will be in Spanish; Grand Fiesta would be Spanglish. They didn't originally call it El River del Tiempo, after all.

edit: Although, I guess if the full name is Gran Fiesta Tour Starring the Three Caballeros, then I guess they're doing Spanglish after all. Come on Disney, make it all in Spanish!

 

[ELopez]

It's kind of hard to celebrate a culture without representing stereotypes. Sure there are negative stereotypes about every culture, but there's always an element of truth engrained in that. Personally I think the America pavilion should have a buffet. Perhaps we can move body wars over to America as well, change the video so it's what's happening when someone has a heart attack... Obesity The Experience

That is hilarious :lol: .

And not a bad idea.

 

[wickedfan07]

The best way I can put it is whether you enjoyed the "Disney" or the "World" part of WDW. This looks like it will play to a demographic that really enjoys the Disney part of it.

And in all of this, are we losing the Walt part of Walt Disney World?

I guess I firmly believe one of what is often attributed to as a "Walt" idea: That if you aim for kids, you are dead.

Makes sense. Things can only be dumbed down so much before Walt's entire vision for his theme parks is ruined. Disneyland was meant give families an opportunity to have fun together. The way things are going, someday there will come a time where characters rule the World completely, and parents will be stuck sitting through a at least a dozen 5-minute rehashes of Disney movies every day of their vacation. Yes, maybe their kids are having fun, but I'm sure people will start to draw the line somewhere: If they wanted to just see the same movies over and over, they would rent the movies at Blockbuster, stay home, and save the thousands of dollars they spent to get to Orlando.

The Disney Characters are not a bad thing: they helped the Company grow. But it was the stories they helped tell that made the difference. And even if those stories succeeded once upon a time way back in 1944, it doesn't mean they will again in 2007. We need some new quality stories everyone can enjoy, even if every person doesn't interpret it the same way. The great thing about Disney is that you can interpret many of its attractions differently (ie. Reflections of Earth - it tells a story without characters. You fill in the blanks with your imagination). Maybe Disney should try letting Guests create their own dreams by using their imaginations instead of shoving a million prepackaged dreams at them. People might actually enjoy filling in the blanks for a change.

 

[H20Babie]

Any chance of a "soft" opening before April 2 (ie. last week of March)? During my last trip to the world in April 2005, I was able to ride Soaring before its actual opening date.

(Come to think of it, I was also in Animal Kingdom the day before its "official" opening)!

 

[ToTBellHop]

Any chance of a "soft" opening before April 2 (ie. last week of March)? During my last trip to the world in April 2005, I was able to ride Soaring before its actual opening date.

(Come to think of it, I was also in Animal Kingdom the day before its "official" opening)!

it's possible but attractions like this do not usually have long soft opening periods like major E-Tickets do. The amount of time they have to change over El Rio is pretty confined as it is...

 

[mousermerf]

As it stands, they seem to have layed out the work in two phases, refurbish the "old ride" which refers to the ride system and its components including the sound systems and probably some of the lighting, and then they have a new recently filed permit that refers to new scenery and rockwork - so they split those two areas up.

3/4 of the time was spent fixing up the ride system, replacing the sound, and building the new boat dock. Now we have about a month and they're just now talking about putting in the new sets and show scenes. This is admittedly quite possible - as it happens in theater all the time (in far less time) - but it does not give them much time for a test/adjust period for any show timing elements.

The films on all of the screens still need to be timed and synchronized with audio and such. That's gonna be lengthy. Assume the first time they "turn it on" it's gonna look like complete crap until they get some of the synchronization issues worked out.

 

[anm8r]

So is the animation going to be traditional?? It'd be a shame if it was CGI. I wouldn't be surprised as they already have a Donald model/rig - but it sure would be nice to keep them in their original incarnation.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I think they are 2D.

 

[Main Street USA]

Just what was so educational about El Rio De Tiempo in the first place? Did anyone really learn anything about Mexican culture besides the fact that they have cliff divers, flea markets, and underwater cocktail bars? I really don't feel like any cultural merit is being lost by adding the three cabs because I don't feel like there was much cultural merit to begin with.

If you did some research on the initial idea and meaning behind El Rio you'd have a different opinion on the matter.

 

[Dr Albert Falls]

If you did some research on the initial idea and meaning behind El Rio you'd have a different opinion on the matter.

You shouldn't have to "do research" to enjoy a theme park ride.

Face it. The original "El Rio" was a weak attempt to create a ride in World Showcase (and, at the time, the only "ride" in WS after the German ride got axed)

It was born out of the idea to build a Florida version of Disneyland's "Blue Bayou" restaurant, but without a show like DL's "Pirates".

To those who think Disney is all about storytelling, "El Rio" had no story.

To those who say the original EPCOT was about education, name two things that you learned from "El Rio".

To those that complain that the parks are becoming too "Pixar-ized"--- The Three Caballeros are a 63-year-old Walt-created original that I'm sure did not get dreamed up by the merchandise folks. This appears to be a genuine attempt to pay homage to a vintage Disney film in a setting that is most appropriate.

The original EPCOT failed because it did not appeal to a wide audience. Sure, sophisticated adults may have flocked to the place. But parents with children avoided it, simply because it was "boring".

Now with Nemo, The Three Caballeros, and characters galore, younger tastes have something to enjoy as their big brothers and sisters race off to the thrill rides, and their parents soak up the ambiance of international locales.

Now, everybody in the family can find something to enjoy. That enjoyment means they spend more $$$. More spending means continued investment in the parks. Everybody wins.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

You shouldn't have to "do research" to enjoy a theme park ride.

Face it. The original "El Rio" was a weak attempt to create a ride in World Showcase (and, at the time, the only "ride" in WS after the German ride got axed)

It was born out of the idea to build a Florida version of Disneyland's "Blue Bayou" restaurant, but without a show like DL's "Pirates".

To those who think Disney is all about storytelling, "El Rio" had no story.

To those who say the original EPCOT was about education, name two things that you learned from "El Rio".

To those that complain that the parks are becoming too "Pixar-ized"--- The Three Caballeros are a 63-year-old Walt-created original that I'm sure did not get dreamed up by the merchandise folks. This appears to be a genuine attempt to pay homage to a vintage Disney film in a setting that is most appropriate.

The original EPCOT failed because it did not appeal to a wide audience. Sure, sophisticated adults may have flocked to the place. But parents with children avoided it, simply because it was "boring".

Now with Nemo, The Three Caballeros, and characters galore, younger tastes have something to enjoy as their big brothers and sisters race off to the thrill rides, and their parents soak up the ambiance of international locales.

Now, everybody in the family can find something to enjoy. That enjoyment means they spend more $$$. More spending means continued investment in the parks. Everybody wins.

I guess I would point out a few things...

1. The line between being weak and being charming is very thin.

2. There is a big difference between creating stories and spoonfeeding them.

3. To challenge a guest is not necessarily a bad thing. Having to "figure it out" a bit has led to some of the greatest artistic and entertainment successes in the world. Research is certainly too far for the average guest, but I don't think El Rio took that.

4. EPCOT Center was not all that educational. It was inspirational, hopeful, and creative dressed in a guise of education. It was a showcase; not a text book. It celebrated the fun, the best, the accomplishments of people: science and culture.

5. Let's not mix up "confusion" with "boredom". That is highly what has led to the "wonderful" success in our education system.

6. It's not about the age of a character; it's about what they reprsent.

7. I don't think many original EPCOT Center fans would latch onto ERDT as their choice. But, it's all that we had left of the original park.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm glad you like it. But these nails in the coffin of what EPCOT Center did is NOT an "everybody wins" situation. It merely may be that there are more current paying customers that feel like they won. Only time will tell if that has any longer legs than did the first attempt at this park.